Image talk:Common Video Resolutions.svg

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] What’s the intention?

Again an illustration that tries to compare apples to oranges and fails to name them. Are these resolutions considered signal (stored/transmitted) or display (software/hardware), what kind of aspect ratio …? Christoph Päper 21:42, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

This is an illustration of the pixel resolution of common television video signal formats. Displays vary, of course. The aspect ratio can also vary, but of course HDTV is usually 16:9 and SDTV is usually 4:3. These details are described on Template:TV resolution, which is where this image is used. I'm not sure what you mean by apples and oranges, and what your concern is... but I'll be happy to discuss it with you. Tvaughan1 02:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

You have e.g. 1920 × 1080 and 720 × 576 in there, but 1080i is often transmitted with just 1440 horizontal pixels per line (4:3 source aspect ratio) despite having a 16:9 display aspect ratio, and PAL is never displayed at 720 × 576, but for example 768 × 576 or 960 × 540 (16:9 “PAL optimal”: stretched horizontally and cropped vertically). There are some providers, e.g. with teleshopping programming, sending out a DVB signal with reduced, but standard conforming resolution of e.g. 352 × 576 pixels (SVCD-like) and even VCD quality (progressive, but half the lines) is supported. The DVD specification does not allow as much flexibility, IIRC, and I don’t know much about ATSC and ISDB. Then there are of course NTSC-compatible digital signals, too, with their plethora of refresh rates (24, 24/1.001, 30, 30/1.001, 60, 60/1.001). And there are zoomed pillar / letterbox signals and so on. It’s not that simple to build a meaningful, correct and unbiased diagram of digital video resolutions and you didn’t even say that these are only digital ones (analog ones are more like bananas). And I didn’t even mention the interlace vs. progressive issue. Christoph Päper 16:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Christoph - HDTV is never transmitted with 1440 x 1080, or any other format with 1440 horizontal pixels. There is no such signal format. 1920x1080 image format is defined by SMPTE 274M ([1]), and this standard is referenced by the ATSC specification ([2]). I'm in the US, and I'm less familiar with DVB, but I'm not aware of any intermediate format there either. If a 4:3 image is transmitted on a 1920x1080 broadcast, the bars on the left and right are usually black or grey, but they are part of the broadcast signal. Of course, static grey or black areas are very efficiently encoded by MPEG-2, since there are no motion vectors, and since there is no spatial detail (or very little detail in the case of some channels which use a grey static graphic on the sidebars). Tvaughan1 17:43, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Please, don't mention the interlace versus progressive issue!!  :) We are having a very lengthy and mostly unproductive discussion of that issue on Talk:Interlace. It is an issue that is not well understood, especially by those who don't real professional video experience. In any case, what matters most for the purpose of this image, and the description of the resolution of each format is the the pixel resolution specified by the signal image format, not the "effective resolution" or the "perceived resolution", or resolutions that are sometimes utilized by cameras, intermediate storage formats, or displays (all of which can be somewhat less than the full resolution provided by the signal specification). Also, this image should describe the most common formats (Digital TV signal resolutions). DVD, by the way, is commonly either 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL), unless you use MPEG-1 (VCD resolution... very rare for DVD). Some other frame sizes are allowed, but they are not common (see [3]). Tvaughan1 17:43, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

If we went by Table A3 of A/53E by ATSC, NTSC-like SDTV had 704 (or 640, but not 720) × 480 pixels.

Maybe that “often” was exaggerated, but I’ve read several seemingly reliable reports from Australia and the USA about 1440 × 1080 being broadcast. (It sounds reasonable, too, at least for news etc., where HDV equipment may be used in production.) ATSC refers to SMPTE 274M as an input format only AFAICS, but I agree that there’s also no explicit mention of 1440 in neither the ATSC nor the DVB standards I skimmed over this evening (except for the HD-MAC compatible format in DVB). Christoph Päper 22:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

ATSC informative: standardized video input formats, combined

Video standard	Active lines	Active samples per line
SMPTE 274M	1080	1920
SMPTE 296M	720	1280
ITU-R BT.601-4	576	720
ITU-R BT.601-5	483	720

Combined ATSC table with MPEG-2 coded values expanded

vertical size value	horizontal size value	aspect ratio information	frame rate code	progressive sequence
1080	1920	squares, 16:9	24*, 24, 25, 30*, 30	p
			25, 30*, 30	i
720	1280	squares, 16:9	24*, 24, 25, 30*, 30, 50, 60*, 60	p
576	720	4:3, 16:9	25, 50	p
			25	i
	544	4:3, 16:9	25	i, p
	480
	352
480	704	4:3, 16:9	24*, 24, 30*, 30, 60*, 60	p
			30*, 30	i
	640	squares, 4:3	24*, 24, 30*, 30, 60*, 60	p
			30*, 30	i
288	352	4:3, 16:9	25	p

Informative DVB table (Annex A in ETSI TR 101 154)

vertical size value	horizontal size value	aspect ratio information	frame rate code	progressive sequence
1152	1440	16:9	25	i
1080	1920	16:9	24*, 24, 25, 30*, 30	p
			25, 30*, 30	i
1035	1920	16:9	25, 30*, 30	i
720	1280	16:9	24*, 24, 25, 30*, 30, 50, 60*, 60	p
576	720	4:3, 16:9	25, 50	p
			25	i
	544	4:3, 16:9	25	i, p
	480
	352
480	720	4:3, 16:9	24*, 24, 30*, 30, 60*, 60	p
			30*, 30	i
	640	4:3	24*, 24, 30*, 30, 60*, 60	p
			30*, 30	i
	544	4:3, 16:9	24*, 30*	p
			30*	i
	480		24*, 30*	p
			30*	i
	352		24*, 30*	p
			30*	i
288	352	4:3, 16:9	25	p
240	352	4:3, 16:9	24*, 30*	p

Possible DVD resolutions according to Wikipedia (and MPEG)

vertical size value	horizontal size value	aspect ratio information	frame rate code	progressive sequence
576	720	4:3, 16:9	25	i, p
	704	4:3, (16:9)	25	i, p
	352	4:3	25	i, p
480	720	4:3, 16:9	24*, 30*	i, p
	704	4:3, (16:9)	24*, 30*	i, p
	352	4:3	24*, 30*	i, p
288	352	4:3	25	p
240	352	4:3	24*, 30*	p

(24* = 24/1.001 ≈ 23.976, 30* = 30/1.001 ≈ 29.97, 60* = 60/1.001 ≈ 59.94)

Christoph - this is good information, and you can certainly update the image if you would like, or the resolution template. I have been in the DVD business since the beginning, and I can say with certainty that almost all DVDs are 720x480 in the NTSC world. IT would probably more confusing than helpful to include the other resolutions on this image. I don't know a lot about DVB, but I'm not sure how common DVB is yet either (although I'm sure Europe will migrate to high definition just like other areas... it seems to be a slower transition from what I have heard and observed). I attended the CeBIT show in Frankfurt this past spring, and high definition video was all over the place, so the industry is definitely trying to move in the direction of high-def. Tvaughan1 23:31, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

DVB is basically used worldwide via satellite and cable though not exclusively everywhere (Hughes DSS and Open-Cable respectively in America, ISDB in Japan). The terrestrial story is a bit more cluttered, see this image (by the DVB Project and thus perhaps slightly biased). I understand that in North America DTV (digital television), DTTV (terrestrial) and HDTV (high definition) are often used synonymously, although they actually mean different things. Europe has a relatively long history of digital TV broadcasting (the first regular services started in the mid-90s), but is indeed quite new to (digital) HDTV.

You’ve certainly been to Han(n)over, not Frankfurt, to visit the CeBIT (although you might have changed planes in FRA), or you visited a different fair. -- Christoph Päper 18:32, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh yes... Hanover. Yes... I flew through Frankfurt. Tvaughan1 19:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC)