Talk:Comma (punctuation)

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Contents 1 Miscellaneous discussion 2 comma and years 3 Interesting news story 4 Etymology 5 Comma and years: answer 6 Comma and dates II 7 What about use in other langueges? 8 Serial comma 9 left to right vs. right to left usage... 10 Adjective examples 11 Strange Comma Usage 12 comma as mark of s/v beginning of main clause

[edit] Miscellaneous discussion

I've removed the section "Names for comma", which was a list of other languages' names for the comma. That's what Wiktionary is for (see Wiktionary:comma). This article has interlanguage links for most of the languages that were in the list anyway. —User:Caesura^(t) 17:58, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Does anybody have information on the history of the comma? How did it evolve to be the shape and use it is today. Why is it that in modern Chinese, the comma looks and functions exactly the same as in western languages?

Question: Which category does the comma in "If the information is necessary, no commas should be used." fall into? I ask because if it is mean to be parenthetical, it sort of contradicts itself:)

That's not parenthetical, it's introductory (I'm unsure of the precise terminology). The reverse ("No commas should be used if the information is necessary.") would not use a comma. RadioKirk talk to me 20:32, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Would someone please dig up an appropriately licensed image and mention how asian commas differ from the ones used in european languages please? --Ssokolow 07:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

What about comma usage in shortened newspaper headlines?

We don't have this usage of commas in either the UK or Australia as far as I know. How did it start?--CharlieP 03:16, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it started to conserve space and money (like by sending it by telegraph) and it just became accepted as a part of journalism over the years. It's used (in some places) as a replacement for the word "and", like this: Bush, Cheny announce blah blah blah. I don't know if some of my sources are credible, but their explanation seems plausible.

In the grammar section the second bullet point of point 2. is:
"I walked home and left shortly after." -- Although "I walked home" is independent, "left shortly after" is dependent on the first part of the sentence
I don't see what this has to do with commas.
212.120.231.16 20:36, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

In August, customers opened at least 50 new accounts; in September, only about 20.

Regarding the usage of a comma in quotations, the current article states that commas should always appear inside the quotations. However, while conceding the general rule, some argue that commas in the U.S. should be placed outside the quotation marks if used with a single letter or number. Source:
http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html
Examples:
~The buried treasure was marked on the map with a large "X".
~The only grade that will satisfy her is an "A".
~On this scale, the highest ranking is a "1", not a "10".
Does anyone have a definitive rule on this? 138.88.131.174 19:08, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

138.88.131.174, you are after a definitive rule. But what such rule be like? Certainly it could not be one that everyone agrees on; and certainly not one that is compelling by its logical appeal, or any other quality. The fact is that people will always disagree about punctuation; no rule is "right" or "definitive", in most matters of punctuation. Rules are not delivered on stone tablets from Mount Sinai. Noetica 22:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Noetica: Pardon my use of the term "definitive." I'll just settle for a general rule with a list of exceptions.

No problem, Anonymous. I think the present treatment of the topic you mention is vague; but I am reluctant to edit much here, because I think the whole article needs work and I haven't got time for that. Take a look at Full stop, where the matter is dealt with better. In fact, I would like to see the interactions of quotes and all other punctuation marks dealt with comprehensively at Quotation_mark, with links from all relevant articles. That would be rational and efficient, and enable consistency. Noetica 02:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] comma and years

To English experts: In a narrative sentence, is there any instance where a year (such as 2006) is not followed by a comma, when the year is not already followed by some other punctuation mark, such as a period, semi-colon, parenthesis, etc. Thanks. Hmains 20:14, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting news story

"Comma quirk irks Rogers": a contract with a misplaced comma costs a company millions. violet/riga (t) 22:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

It seems that comma comes from... 'comma'... (Latin), (it is a latinization of κόμμα, from Greek/Ancient Greek)~

[edit] Comma and years: answer

From above: "In a narrative sentence, is there any instance where a year (such as 2006) is not followed by a comma, when the year is not already followed by some other punctuation mark, such as a period, semi-colon, parenthesis, etc. Thanks."

Sure.

"The year 2006 is not a leap year." "Maria said that 1992 was an excellent year for Cabernet." "Oliver graduated from high school in 1968 and entered college in 1971 after his military service." "The stock market crash of 1929 began the Great Depression." "I can't find the July 2004 files." Cognita 08:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comma and dates II

Can English punctuation expert look at following text and then explain where commas should be added or removed and 'WHY'. Thanks

The 1st Georgia Regiment was raised on November 4, 1775 at Savannah, Georgia for service with the Continental Army. The regiment saw action in Florida in 1777 and 1778, the Siege of Savannah and the Siege of Charleston. The regiment was captured along with the rest of the American southern army at Charleston, South Carolina on May 20, 1780 by the British Army. The regiment was reformed on January 1, 1783 as the Georgia Battalion and disbanded on November 15, 1783.

Hmains 22:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What about use in other langueges?

What about use in other langueges, i.e. in Chinese?--Nixer 19:11, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serial comma

The note on the serial comma before "and" makes it look as though it is required. Somebody needs to reword it to make sure that this misassertion is done away with. BioTube 05:59, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] left to right vs. right to left usage...

The comma was apparently invented in languages with left-to-right writing, and the shape of the comma itself seems to imply a left-to-right flow. When I've seen the comma used in right-to-left languages, such as Hebrew, it seemed backwards and out of place. Does anyone know if such languages have started using reverse commas (the mirror image of the commas we're used to). Such commas would (IMO) fit much better with right-to-left writing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.0.91.135 (talk) 10:02, 24 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Adjective examples

Remarkably the article did not discuss the use of commas to separate co-ordinate adjectives! I've added this. However, I'd appreciate it if someone who knows more about grammar than I do could check/improve my tree frog example, because I'm not sure that the comma alone can control whether "lazy" and "devious" are co-ordinate. -- pde 21:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I've now done some work on that, pde. It still needs to be made more rigorous; but I think that the whole article needs sorting out, first. The layout needs overhauling, and conventions ought to settled on for the punctuation (!) throughout. I strongly believe that, especially where punctuation is the topic, use of marks should be kept under tight control. This can easily be achieved. For example, we can consistently indent examples, and then not enclose them in quotes. And we can have recourse to italics for mention as opposed to use. For example:

• In it's time, the apostrophe is used to mark omission of i from the word is. But in it's been too long, 's stands for has.

This is cleaner and easier to follow than the alternative that mixes examples of punctuation with a peppering of punctuation marks in the text itself:

• In "it's time", the apostrophe is used to mark omission of "i" from the word "is". But in "it's been too long", "'s" stands for "has".

– Noetica 00:40, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Strange Comma Usage

My girlfriend uses a comma when writing this to me on MSN: "bye, sweety." Is this comma correct? I find nothing on it. She said, "it's a vocative... in portuguese, you need it." So it's apparently used that way in Portuguese (Rio, Brazilian dialect), but I could find nothing on that here. Also, I have noticed that this page only speaks of comma grammar in English. It seems to me that we need information on its usage in other languages. It doesn't seem like it would fit on this page, so my suggestion is each language's usage of the comma be made into its own page (and posibly similar usages being put in the same place.) Thus the information on the comma in English would be moved to its own page and more universal usages and information would be retained here. Any thoughts on this? SadanYagci 04:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know all the rules for writing commas in English. But I think your girlfriend is right. Addressing (or vocative) should be separated by commas. People often forget that greetings (hi, bye, good morning) are not the part of addressing, so they should be separated too. As for my language, Czech, this rule is valid, but very few people know it. It is possible that the situation in English is different. --Pajast 16:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] comma as mark of s/v beginning of main clause

Just as many uses can be put under insertion ( which the article admirably does), other uses can be gathered under this: a comma signals the reader to prepare for a new main clause subject/verb. Anything in front of this is marked off so the reader can process key grammatical units as the base of thinking. Inroductory phrases, modifiers, subordiante clauses and even other main clauses are all treated the same. Organizing principles help learners while shedding light on general function. 65.26.214.166 00:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)Lawrence Flesher