Talk:Craig Ferguson

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Contents 1 "Alcoholism" 2 "OCD" 3 "Liberal Bias" 4 Brittany Spears 5 Dancer 6 "Craig Ferguson", or "TV's Craig Ferguson"? 7 Use of first name 8 Controversy 9 Wikify. 10 Citizenship? 11 Dr. Drew Pinsky 12 Theme music

[edit] "Alcoholism"

CF's struggles with alcoholism seem to be a major part of his life. Should this be added?

I think the last part of his "Personal" about his past struggles with alcoholism is more of an interpretation than what he factualy said on his show about that part of his life. Would be good also to put a link to that speach (available on youtube : "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bbaRyDLMvA" (not that I'm lazy, I'm just not good at editing html))

[edit] "OCD"

I don't think we need to know about his OCD or non-OCD unnless he wants to tell us about it. Let's relate to the Man and not the illness.

He's a great comic and obviously a great human being. Let's appreciate that.

128.138.173.204 19:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Craig seems to exhibit symptoms of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Evidenced by his repeating of the same catch phrases and jokes well beyond the limits of normal behavior. Has he ever openly discussed this or is there further evidence of this from other projects he has been involved in.

Some jokes are funny only the first time. Others endure. And some are funny precisely because of one-time-only variations from the habitual way of repeating the thing, and would not be funny but for habitual repetition. Craig Ferguson is a master of all of these techniques. Michael Hardy 21:54, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I see your point, David Letterman does this as well. However Dave will do it for a week to a month or so. Craig however has been doing the same jokes and mannerisms for so long it seems more strange than funny. Sometimes when watching him I can see him wince when delivering the cheeky monkey line like it pains him to say it for the hundreth or so time.

Johnny Carson repeated the same jokes for nearly 30 years! I don't think Craig has OCD just because he repeats jokes. One comedic effect on such a setup makes a joke sometimes funnier over time because it's been delivered so much.Char645 09:20, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

My guess is that Craig's repetitiveness lets us in on "the joke." If you are a regular viewer, you're in the inner circle of "late night friends in-the-know," if not, you have to get with the program...a brilliant technique, really. Then again, many of my recovering alcoholic pals have symptoms of OCD, so maybe it's just who he is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.65.44.104 (talk • contribs) 07:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC).

[edit] "Liberal Bias"

Who has criticized Ferguson for his (rather tame, in my opinion) digs at Fox news? Also, as far as I can tell, all this shows is that he may be a liberal (which he freely admits, anyway- there was a NY Times Magazine interview with him in which he said so). To be biased one needs to purport to be objective. By saying, "I'm making stuff up, just like Fox news!" Ferguson is explicitly denying his intent to be objective. This seems like a lame attempt to sneek in a link to the Bias article. I will remove the whole paragraph if no one chimes in. Nigel Napalm 22:55, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brittany Spears

I'd like to praise the editor of this site for quickly adding Ferguson's defense of Brittany Spears and descision to "leave the vunerable alone."

What a breath of fresh air to have somone take a stand for kindness in media and celebrity coverage when someone is really suffering.

Viciousness in the public arena wasn't always this bad, there was once a lot more civility in public discourse.

Ferguson is now my hero and so is the editor of this site.

128.138.173.204 19:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dancer

I'm pretty sure Ferguson studied to be a dancer at college. I remember seeing his TV special (just after he'd dumped the Bing Hitler character) and I'm sure he was a quite accompished stage dancer. I'll see if I can find anything about that. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 09:51, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well, he didn't go to college. He's said so many times. On an NPR interview with Terry Gross, however, he talked about performing in some plays and cabaret shows that involved dancing. Maybe that's where he learned.Nigel Napalm 22:54, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Craig Ferguson", or "TV's Craig Ferguson"?

I'd say it would be incorrect to begin the article by including "TV's" within the bolding of the title name at it's first appearance, thus:

TV's Craig Ferguson is the host of the Late Late Show...

One the other hand, if it says

TV's Craig Ferguson is the host of the Late Late Show...

with only the name bolded, then it does not make it look as if the term "TV's" is actually part of his name, or an official title or the like. A journalist can write about "TV's Milton Berle", and the word "TV's" just helps identify the person. That seems harmless. The fact that Ferguson himself jocularly always begins his show by introducing himself that way doens't make it harmful. Michael Hardy 00:03, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree, I think that people who are fans of the show will enjoy seeing it there. It is pretty harmless. --rogerd 23:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, I certainly think that we should eliminate the "TV's", its fairly unusual for Wikipedia and goes against the WP:MOS. It also first comes off as thoughtless vandalism by a "IP user" due to its placement. The only time any text should be placed before the bolded article name is when the word is "The", or as otherwise neccesary. The prefix "TV's" is also unneccesary as we can easily clarify that Ferguson is famous for appearing on television in the following sentences or even in the same sentence (i.e. "Craig Ferguson (BIRTHDATE) is a Scottish-born actor and television star"). So I'd be okay with a intro. rewrite, I can perform it if necessary.. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 21:24, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if you have ever seen his show, but he always introduces himself as "TV's Craig Ferguson". Yes this is non-standard, but as I see it, it is quite harmless. See Wikipedia:Ignore all rules. --rogerd 22:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The only time any text should be placed before the bolded article name is when the word is "The", or as otherwise neccesary.

The only time??? There are very frequent occasions for the bolded title phrase to appear halfway through a moderately long opening sentence. Michael Hardy 22:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

... a few examples:

• In exponential growth, the article begins thus:

In mathematics, a quantity that grows exponentially (or geometrically) is one that grows at a rate proportional to .........

• In Sheffer sequence, it begins thus:

In mathematics, a polynomial sequence, i.e., a sequence { p_n(x) : n = 0, 1, 2, 3, ... } of polynomials in which the index of each polynomial equals its degree, is a Sheffer sequence (from Isadore M. Sheffer) if the linear operator Q on polynomials in x defined by

Qp_n(x) = np_n−1(x)

is shift-equivariant.

• incidence algebra, it begins thus:

In order theory, a field of mathematics, a locally finite partially ordered set is one for which every closed interval

[a, b] = {x : a ≤ x ≤ b}

within it is finite. For every locally finite poset and every field of scalars there is an incidence algebra, an associative algebra defined as follows.

• Errors and residuals in statistics begins as follows:

In statistics, the concepts of error and residual are easily confused with each other.

• Estimation of covariance matrices begins as follows:

In multivariate statistics, the importance of the Wishart distribution stems in part from the fact that it is the probability distribution of the maximum likelihood estimator of the covariance matrix of a multivariate normal distribution.

In this case the bolded article name never appears. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Michael Hardy (talk • contribs).

Your list of examples is nice, but can you present even one example where an article showcasing a person uses this method? I doubt you'll be able to because it's simply a ridiculous concept and absolutely and completely unnecessary—in all of the examples you showed I found that texts preceding the article's title were necessary to explain the concept of the article. Your viewpoint here is akin to starting the George W. Bush article with "America's George W. Bush is the 43rd President of the United States"—completely and utterly pointless and unprofessional. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 02:07, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

(I gave two such examples on user:CrazyInSane's talk page. One of them began thus: "His Holiness, Pope Damian of Alexandria was ...." (or something like that). Michael Hardy 00:44, 29 April 2006 (UTC))

CiS goes a bit far in saying that only "The" should ever appear before an article title in the lead paragraph, but in this particular case he is right. The word "TV's" is unencyclopedic by its very nature (I bristle at making a possessive out of an abbreviation; "Television's" would be marginally more acceptable), and worse, it's completely out of place. If this is some kind of inside joke among Ferguson fans, then it needs to be explained, later in the article, not inserted into the lead for fans to snicker at when they read it and to bewilder everyone else. This is such a clear cut case that I'm removing it now. Powers 12:28, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've edited it so that the first paragraph reads as follows:

"TV's Craig Ferguson" (as he introduces himself to his audiences) (born May 17, 1962) is a Scottish comedian and actor who has done work both in front of and behind the camera. He is the host of The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson.

The phrase is in quotation marks. I believe the quote is factually correct. The parenthesis correctly attributes it and puts it in its proper setting. Each night at the beginning of his show he greets his audience by saying "Welcome to the Late Late Show. I'm your host, TV's Craig Ferguson." Michael Hardy 00:40, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

It is my firm opinion that it doesn't fit Wikipedia's style, even when phrased as above. The veracity of the anecdote is not in question -- and in fact, it is covered later in the article, where it should be. What is in question is the appropriateness of making it the subject of the lead sentence. I also question why it is so important to you to make sure this jocularity is given pride of place in a serious article. Powers 03:22, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Jocularity is what Craig Ferguson is about, and seriousness requires the article to convey that clearly. It makes the article clearer, more accurate, and more comprehensible. Michael Hardy 19:24, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I have to strongly disagree with your final sentence. I really cannot see how that is at all a supportable statement. Powers 15:51, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

It is clearer because it is more memorable; it is more memorable because it is humorous. It's not just humor for the sake of humor; it's humor as a memory aid. Michael Hardy 01:40, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Some very sober writing, e.g. a biographical sketch in Reader's Digest, can refer to "TV's Ed Sullivan", etc. So why is that in any way ungrammatical or too informal? Michael Hardy 01:42, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to "burst your bubble", Michael, but I can assure you no one is going to unanimously agree with your assertion that "TV's" is encyclopedic, therefore I cannot see it ever being placed in this article without being promptly removed. Again, if you feel it necessary, elaborating on how Ferguson refers to himself as "TV's Craig Ferguson" later on in the article is certainly welcome and encouraged. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 01:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

If "promptly" means several months later, then experience bears you out. But it sat there during that time. Michael Hardy 02:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I was referring to future incidents. Since administrators and other users are now aware of this, they will ensure the prefix no longer is placed on this article. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 02:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

There's no need for your arrogant, self-satisfied tone of voice. Try to be nice. 4.159.11.95 19:07, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I would be interested in getting an outside view on this, as I've not seen anyone but the three of us take an interest. Do you know of any admins who have? Powers 14:12, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm certainly not an admin, but I'll throw my voice behind NOT including "TV's." It does read simply as an in-joke, and Wikipedia is not a fan page. Croctotheface 09:50, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

• I'm an admin, a fan (and countryman) of Craig from way back when he was in Red Dwarf and 2000 Not Out, and I've just spent 3 weeks in the US where I very much enjoyed watching the show. Imho "TV's" should not be included in the opening line, as it contradicts style and is more appropriately mentioned in the body of the article. I appreciate the jocular aspect behind the idea, but it's better to leave it out of the intro. Deizio talk 19:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of first name

I removed all of the references to his first name only. Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies), this is discouraged because "The use of the first name gives the impression that the writer knows the subject personally, which, even if true, is not relevant.". Also, in my opinion, it makes the article read like a People Magazine fluf-piece. --rogerd 21:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy

other than the toronto bit, not of the so called controvery comes across as controversal at all, was there something more to the starbucks story that is written here? as complaining that a starbucks doesnt have a toilet seems a perfectly resonable thing to do. as for the Fox News/Bob Barker bits, you know i do believe thaere is a difference between controversy and satire especially when there has been no reaction to so called "controversal comments". Kejoxen 09:51, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Everything in the controversy section was said as a joke on the show. I want to delete the entire section, which is inappropriately labeled. - GilliamJF 05:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the "Controversy" section includes no actual controversy, just examples of humor. While no one individual is likely to find every joke or bit on a particular show to be amusing, there is nothing in this section as currently written that would qualify as any more controversial than the typical fare seen nightly on most American nighttime talk shows. Unless someone can demonstrate that this section is accurately presented and relevant to the article, I think that it should be eliminated soon. --DannyZ 06:59, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I deleted it. There was no controversy. --172.194.140.119 03:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikify.

Contrary to the most recent editor, this article DOES need to be wikified. It lacks any sense of organization whatsoever. It's just a mess of information right now. It says that he's best known for his work on _The Drew Carey SHow_, which I can only assume is from a version of the article from before he got _The Late Late Show_. I'm re adding the tag. Please don't remove it until the article is organized into discreet and discernable sections. Croctotheface 11:03, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to add the cleanup tag to split the difference. Croctotheface

I added some section headers and did some reorganization of the text (I didn't delete anything). It still needs a lot of work to be considered wikified, but at least the info is grouped now so it's easier to understand and edit. Also, it might be better to move some of the Late Late Show-specific things to the Late Late Show (CBS) page. Bluefrue 06:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the tag as there is now a form of organization. I agree that the quality of the writing could and should be higher. Croctotheface 10:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citizenship?

Anyone know if he's a citizen yet? I thought he just mentioned "I'm glad to be an American" on his show and he's been talking about his application forever now... Viper007Bond 08:08, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I was just watching the episode from Oct 25, and he mentioned with Kevin Nealon that he could get in trouble with his citizenship application for talking about his legal trouble. Also, the Pres. Bush sketch he did earlier in the show noted that he couldn't vote. ShawnLee 20:13 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Apparently Bill Bryson is now a British citizen - why can't they just do a swap? 217.155.20.163 02:16, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I find it pretty interesting that he is a household name in the USA but the average joe in his native Scotland and the UK as a whole has never heard of him!Just goes to show the Americans love a Scottish accent. Im from Scotland so I was suprised that someone from Glasgow has no recognicion back here for what they have accomplished over in the USA.--CharlesBronson18 14:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dr. Drew Pinsky

In case anyone was wondering, I changed the Dr. Drew reference to note that he's a medical doctor and not a psychologist. ShawnLee 20:13 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Theme music

after listening to the theme, i think CBS as the last line wrong. Craig sings "Tomorrow's Just YOUR Future Yesterday" not "Tomorrow's Just a Future Yesterday" as on CBS and here! could someone check and see what i am saying is right!--86.136.221.140 01:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)