Talk:Current controversies regarding the Presbyterian Church (USA)

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Per request this article has been spun off from Presbyterian Church (USA). This is too allow the article to grow and to allow more details of the issue to be presented. However, this is not to allow any deviation from WP:NPOV, please keep that in mind. As of my creation of this article it is mostly a copy/paste with any introductory phargaph of my own creation, but this is a wiki so edit away --T-rex 01:48, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

I am suggesting that this page be moved and also merged with Presbyterian Church (USA) Hezbollah controversy, as well as some of the other controversy material at Presbyterian Church (USA). This follows the model used in Controversies regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as example. I don't think that the main Presbyterian Church (USA) should have more information on controversies in the last 5-6 years than on the first 200 years of the church, and making a separate sub-article for each controversy is a bit too maintenance intensive. I think we can put the full details on the controversies in one article, and summarize at Presbyterian Church (USA) (with the {{main}} link). KWH 05:15, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed text

The following text states an opinion which is not cited to a verifiable and reliable source, and is not encyclopedic:

"In many ways this has been a result of the church's stance against the current state of Israel, including support of the anti-zionist group Hezbollah."

See "WP:NPOV#Let the facts speak for themselves and WP:NPOV#Attributing and substantiating biased statements, as well as the rest of the policy at WP:NPOV if you have any questions. KWH 01:19, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

It is important to link to Presbyterian Church (USA) Hezbollah controversy within the article to show how this fits into the big picture of things. I know you can't stand to have anything bad about the PC(USA) be included in the article, but the facts do speak for themselves... --T-rex 01:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia's policies on Neutral point of view and verifiability, and Wikipedia's guideline on reliable sources. KWH 04:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Alright if all you are going to do is cite irrelevent policies, then I'm readding it. Please leave it alone. NPOV is not a sypathetic point of view... --T-rex 02:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not going to bother to edit war with you... but I'm again going to suggest again that you read the relevant policies, because it is facially obvious that this claim (that PC(USA) is against Israel, and supports Hezbollah) is "a piece of information about which there is some dispute" - an opinion - which must be attributed to "an identifiable and objectively quantifiable population or, better still, a name."

As to the link, it would be more proper to put it in a "See also" section, but as you see above that I have proposed merging the two articles anyway, at which point that would be irrelevant... if you or nobody else opposes the move/merge in a few more days I'll go ahead and make the changes to merge the controversy material to a new article name. KWH 04:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not really for or against the merge, but I agree that it would take care of the need to include the link. I posted a note on the PC(USA) main article talk page, but it hasn't gained any discussion there either. If you do go ahead with the merge, I would just suggest that you don't do your best to keep all of the references currentlly cited --T-rex 12:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Topic Suggestions: Gay marriage and Gays as clergy, elders or deacons

Some liberal Presbyterians believe that homosexuals deserve wedding ceremonies and deserve to become ministers, elders or deacons, if they believe that they are called. Some conservative Presbyterians believe that although homosexuals are welcome to become members of the Church, they shouldn't have full weddings or become ministers, elders or deacons. There was discussion about this during the 217th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) in 2006. Some information can be found here: http://www.pcusa.org/ga217/newsandphotos/ga06101.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Light_Presbyterians and http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_pru.htm

This is a topic that interests me; however, I don't have enough information or time to write a section about this. I'm just leaving this here just in case someone else wants to write a section or an article. Dawn22 08:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking - perhaps this issue is not a controversy; rather, it is an internal conflict within the denomination. Dawn22 13:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)