Talk:Deadwood (TV series)

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Contents 1 Themes 2 Notable Plots Lines 3 Sources 4 Disambiguation 4.1 Page move 5 Characters 6 Characters and History 7 Samuel Fields 8 Iambic Pentameter 9 Hostetler 10 Episode Guide 11 Save Deadwood 12 Deadwood Season 2 Region 2 DVD Question 13 Silas Adams 14 Profanity 15 Captain Turner 16 TV Movie Follow-up?

[edit] Themes

It seems alot of these other Television articles have discussions of themes or ideas running through the show. Should do something similar here? This is such a layered show with a lot to discuss. Of course another question is how to approach it. What does everyone else think? Qjuad 17:55, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I love how the themes are shown in the Lost article. I think it would be awesome if we can incorporate some recurring themes from the show into the article. Sfufan2005 20:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Awesome. We should iron out ideas here and then if we all can agree there's a consensus, stick it in the article. Qjuad 22:10, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think an important one to mention would be the profanity as there has been some controversy over the historical accuracy of it's usage in the dialogue. Supposedly David Milch claimed it to be accurate although I've also heard that it is just a modern day interpretation of how people spoke then. Still, I've yet to find a solid source for any of this so if anyone has anything, it's up for grabs. Phontain 19:24, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Plots Lines

Should they be moved to a completely new article? Plus, I think they need an overhaul - some of the information is pretty misleading or not particuarly coherent. - Qjuad 10:03, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry if the plot lines are a little wrong. Feel free to correct it. I propose we keep the plot lines on this page similar to that of Grey's Anatomy and The Sopranos since for (1) the article would be a lot smaller (since we really don't need a laundry list of subarticles on the main page). Also, without it the article would just contain the character list, broadcasting and timeframes. + we already have an article for episodes. Hope that is alright with everyone. Sfufan2005 01:03, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I think we all appreciate the work you put into this, but with the eventual addition of Season 3 plot points, it might be better if we create a new page for them and add season summaries to this main page.(Steampowered 09:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Sources

All sources for the Episode synopsises, writer credits, and director credits came from http://www.hbo.com. -Sfufan2005

[edit] Disambiguation

This page needs to be moved to Deadwood ""(Tv Show)"" and a disambiguation page built for the term Deadwood.Elde 20:03, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

Someone moved the page to Deadwood (television program), after which I was considering moving it to Deadwood (television programme), i.e. the proper spelling of the word. But in an effort not to start up a BE/AE argument, I've erred for neutrality, and followed the example of The West Wing (television) by moving the page to Deadwood (television). BLANKFAZE | (что??) 20:48, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

• Why was it moved at all? SchmuckyTheCat 22:45, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
• Yes, I don't understand either, it was fine. The link for the city was Deadwood, South Dakota. Who moved it? I think we should have discussed this before it was moved. Just my opinion. Sfufan2005 14:14, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
• Well, User_talk:Elde#Page move Gzuckier 16:31, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

User:Reflex Reaction moved the page from Deadwood (television) to Deadwood (TV series).

I've since gone through the Special:Whatlinkshere/Deadwood (television) page and changed the vast majority of the links so they point to the new article title (and there were plenty).

However, I haven't altered the links on people's user pages ('cept my own) - I'll leave that for you guys to do yourselves... Gram 13:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

what about ricky jay's character?

[edit] Characters

I split the characters into Major, Secondary, and Minor. All the minor characters were only present for a few episodes. Some of the choices were tough, Sophia Metz has barely any speaking parts and is barely a plot driver, but she is in every episode - so she is secondary not minor. Farnum is in every episode, but he's not the focus of any plots, so he was secondary. I'm going to suggest that in the near future this entire section is split out to a second article. SchmuckyTheCat 07:46, 18 May 2005 (UTC) Good job! Exactly as I would have categorized them. Sfufan2005 02:46, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

• be nice if I'd signed that. maybe between seasons some re-working of this article should take place prepping it to look like more of the shows that have long histories. ie, moving character lists and plots to devoted articles, etc... SchmuckyTheCat 07:46, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
• I would like to split the characters into a separate article a la Characters of Lost. I'll create it and if the general consensus does not like the way it looks, we can always revert it. Sfufan2005 23:12, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

• I'd just make one sentence about the top few characters and keep linking to that Characters of Deadwood page. It gives us more "vertical" space to get stuff in about the show. There's more than just characters and plots by now. SchmuckyTheCat 03:05, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

• I think it's fine just the way it is, because if you create sentences for only some of the characters, someone unknowingly will go in one day and make sentences for all characters. Or list their relationship to Deadwood what they are. JMHO. Sfufan2005 19:56, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Characters and History

the paragraph about historical figures seemed to want to list /all/ historical figures, which i think is a mistake -- there are simply too many. i reworded it a bit, left four characters in (feel free to quibble with my choices), and then added a column to the character table giving the fictionality status of all characters.

this is ... clumsy. to be honest, i think the table was already getting unwieldy for such a high spot in the main article. now i added a column as well as some missing characters and that cant have helped :-).

whats more, i can think of a handful more characters who could reasonably be included (eddie, lee, steve, hostetler, blazanov, carrie, mose) because they are integral to at least one plotline. plus, richardson would be an easy addition IF I COULD FIGURE OUT WHO PLAYS HIM! this show has a continuum from stars to guests such that wherever i try to draw the distinction, someone is left out or isolated in.

do we move the table to the characters page and leave a bare-bones table in its place? i really want to have the fictional -> real cross-reference somewhere on the site.

deadwood has so many characters, my inclination is to not list them all on the main page. i will probably start trimming fat tomorrow, unless someone else does it or tells me not to. Burgher 11:18, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

• I like the "based on" addition. I was going to suggest it. I think as many characters as possible should be listed - however, it is getting unwieldy and I'd (Still) suggest we somehow get that section to focus on a few characters (as text) and move the chart to the characters of deadwood article. SchmuckyTheCat 15:02, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
• I added professions to Deadwood, to describe a short description of what their relationship to the camp is. Remember on focus of shortening characters, "There are no small characters, just small actors". I think we should keep all the characters becuase they are all a vital part of the show. Thanks. Sfufan2005 23:24, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Samuel Fields

Is this character ever actually identified by name in the show? Isn't he just known as "Nigger General" in the series? -Bonalaw 15:08, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, in Episode 2.05: Complications. Sfufan2005 17:45, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. --Bonalaw 08:38, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Iambic Pentameter

I was watching Dinner For Five on IFC and David Milch said that all the dialoque was written in iambic pentameter. Anyone have more info on this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.86.114.110 (talk • contribs) 00:17, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

After reading your comment, I carefully watched episode 2.6 (my second time) with open eyes. I have to say, there are moments during the dialogue where it bears a strong resemblance to Shakespearean and Marlowean dramatic dialogue, in 19th century English. I didn't have a pen in hand to copy down dialogue and read it measure by measure, but there may very well be some truth to that iambic pentameter rumour. ℬastique▼^parℓer♥^voir♑ 04:16, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure one way or the other if the dialog is 'pure' iambic pentameter. But I'm damn sure ppl on the outskirts of American territory didn't speak in a such, as has been suggested, Shakespearian style. Duluoz

[edit] Hostetler

How could all of you forget him? ℬastique▼^parℓer♥^voir♑ 04:22, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Episode Guide

Do you think we should try formatting the episode guide so its more like articles like The Sopranos and Carnivale?--CyberGhostface 20:36, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean? It has its own article List of Deadwood episodes. Sfufan2005 20:43, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Crap. I didn't see that page. Sorry.--CyberGhostface 02:26, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Save Deadwood

IMHO, HBO should have just cancelled the final series of Sopranos (which has been declining in quality for several series now - the final series is unbelievably dull) and given the funding to the fourth series of Deadwood. Anyway, the future of HBO looks increasingly like "It's just like the other TV networks. It's HBO". Bwithh 19:28, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Even better, HBO should have put their money into retaining Deadwood instead of investing in Lucky Louie which looks unfunny and insipid, based on their own commercials for it. --thirty-seven 18:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Lets all be just be glad that the horrid 'Entourage' is still going full force. Deadwood's too intellegent and meaningful for the 'target demographic' anyways, better to have a badly acted show about privilaged white boys spending money and screwing teenagers. Duluoz

Well at least we know that with HBO, we'll get the best shows about rich white boys and screwing teenagers that we'll see on TV. Think about Entourage like it's The Simple Life, only with more screwing of teenagers and a little less worthlessness. So at least you know you've got a little bit of roses sprinkled on some of HBO's processed shit. I was thinking about canceling HBO until I remembered about Rome. It has a lot of the same themes, and it's pretty damn good. By the way, Deadwood was originally going to be a show based on the Urban Cohorts in Rome, but as production of Rome was already underway, he decided to set it in another lawless setting, which ended up being Deadwood. [1]. If I forget to put that in the article, please add it. (Steampowered 08:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC))

Hate to break it to you but Rome is also slated to be cancelled following its second season. I think this cancellation and this period in general will be remembered as the turning point in which HBO began the transformation into a whole different kind of channel than people knew them for.

[edit] Deadwood Season 2 Region 2 DVD Question

(Repost from the Humanities Reference Desk) I've recently purchased the complete season 2 of Deadwood on region 2 DVD. While I am able to watch the episodes without any problems, I cannot seem to be able to access the additional episode commentaries. I have bought a legitmate copy and the box packaging does advertise the audio commentaries as being available.

I've tried searching for help on the internet without any success. I did find a review (see the link below) which contains a picture of the title menu with Episodes, Langauge & Features as the options. My version only displays Episodes and Subtitles in it's menu. http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=21812

I've tried playing it on my PS2 and using InterWin DVD Player & DVD X Player on my laptop but without any joy. They only show one available audio channel, and don't display any other menu options.

Given the popularity of the show, I would hope that there are plenty of fellow wikipedians who have purchased the same box set, and are possibly suffering from the same problem.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Gallaghp 13:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid there are no commentaries on the Region 2 DVD - it is very much a case of false advertisement. I believe paramount control the overseas distribution of Deadwood DVDs, not HBO, thus they don't have any of the extras. But I might be wrong. In any case, the Region 2 DVDs for both the first and season season are bare bones. The picture of the menu in that review is taken from the Region 1 DVD. Qjuad 14:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

On a similar note, the boxes state "may be edited from their original network versions". What's that about? Do the DVDs have bits missing? Cardinal Wurzel 23:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Despite the disclaimer, as far as I am aware the Region 1 and 2 DVDs are uncut. I don't know about the rest. Qjuad 01:07, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Silas Adams

Removed reference to the real life Silas Adams as a basis for the character. A quick read of the real Adams biography makes it pretty obvious there is no connection to the "bagman from yankton"

[edit] Profanity

People did not curse so violently in that era. People view this show and aqcuire the idea that the social interaction part of the show is realistic.

funny, because I work in construction and we curse that heavily, so I'de imagine it being not so far off. On a related note, the extreme profanity section needs some major editing, it's very biased. I will edit it if its not done shortly. Somerset219 03:06, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I could have sworn that David Milch told The New Yorker last year that the profanity was based on research he conducted. Similarly, The History Channel did a show last year about Deadwood's realism, including its profanity, and had a historian comment on period documents that capture the profanity of the period. I'll see if I can track down these sources to confirm. Acarvin 17:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

On the subject of the profanity, that section is marked as a section without citations. After seeing this, I searched all over for that particular quote. The closest I found was the actress who plays Trixie saying “What surprises me is when people won’t watch because they want to hear western men speak like Yosemite Sam.”[2] Perhaps the quote at the end of the paragraph was included in a DVD commentary. --(Steampowered 09:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)).

The Yosemite Sam quote doesn't come from the commentary Milch does on the commentary for the pilot, nor on the filmed interview between Milch and Keith Carradine. Can anyone corroborate that it's on the second season DVDs? From what I've read, Milch doesn't portray the language as being totally anachronistic, and has deflected critics who say otherwise. On the DVD he commented that the language of Deadwood was meant to dispell the quaintess of western society perpetrated by deference to the Hays code in the classic Hollywood period. In the aforementioned New Yorker profile [3] Milch had written a memo to HBO in defense of his liberal use of profanity:

"If, as seems demonstrable, words like prick, cunt, shit, fuck and cocksucker would have been in common usage in the time and place in which 'Deadwood' is set, then, like any words, in form and frequency their expression will be governed by the personality of a given character, imagined by the author with whatever imperfection, as the character is shaped and tested in the crucible of experience. The goal is not to offend but to realize the character's full humanness."

Unless someone can provide a source for the "Yosemite Sam" remark (and who knows, I haven't heard the second DVD's set of commentaries), I think the subsection on profanity ought to be redone entirely. Mseyers 04:39, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

So I've rewritten the profanity section, because so much of what was said was wrong and easily disproved by the definitive New Yorker profile on Milch, and each commentary track on the dvds that Milch has done, and basically everything that's been written about the show. I'm convinced the "Yosemite Sam" comment doesn't exist. Mseyers 19:46, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The Yosemite Sam comment was made on Terry Gross' Fresh Air show. Unfortunately, unlike Tavis Smiley, transcripts for her shows are not available online free anywhere that I could find.RoyBatty42 04:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Captain Turner

Shouldn't he be mentioned in the characters page?69.33.101.98 18:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any reason why not. But he's not much of a character anymore. (Steampowered 08:37, 19 July 2006 (UTC))

[edit] TV Movie Follow-up?

The two follow up 2-hour TV movies are far from a done deal. Don't think it should be stated as fact as it is right now in the introduction. NSpector 05:06, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

         im pretty sure milch stated in interviews, covered by ign.com, that he was working on the scripts and they could start shooting as early as this summer/fall. the sets are all still up, and if i am not mistaken, many of the actors have given verbal support for making the film. 10 bucks says this ends in bloodshed 22:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's mostly correct (the sets are, at the moment, partially still up), but the actors are yet to sign contracts. A few of actors and crew members post regularly on HBO's Deadwood message boards keeping fans up to date. NSpector 00:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC)