Talk:Dianne Feinstein

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Dianne Feinstein is part of WikiProject U.S. Congress, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the United States Congress. You can help by editing this article. This template adds articles to Category:WikiProject U.S. Congress articles.

Contents 1 Gun Permit 2 Anonymous distrust 3 Laundering this article 4 1990 Campaign 5 anyone see this? 6 Chinese New Year Pic 7 Hilarious, but come on now... 8 Irresponsible remarks 9 Her mother half Jewish? 10 Subcommittee on Military Construction Appropriations

[edit] Gun Permit

This page has hosted a reversion war over the following paragraph mentioning gun control:

Feinstein is a strong proponent of gun control, yet is known to have carried concealed handguns herself with a normally nearly impossible to obtain California carry permit - few people, other than politicians and celebrities, are able to obtain California CCW permits. At one time, she was the only person in San Francisco to possess a concealed carry permit.

My take on this is that coupled with a lot more facts and discussion, it would be a good entry in an article on gun control. However, inserted into this short article on Senator Feinstein it is wildly POV and serves only to accuse her of hypocricy. Here is a bit of background material from a 1996 Los Angeles Times article:

Sen. Dianne Feinstein obtained her permit in 1976 when she was president of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors and a bomb exploded against her house. "I was a victim of the New World Liberation Front," she recalled. "Then they shot out the windows of our beach house." Although a supporter of tough gun laws, Feinstein believes citizens should be granted permits to carry concealed weapons if there is "a demonstrable need." Her own license has lapsed. Feinstein's gun was melted into a crucifix, which she later presented to Pope John Paul.

Without the extra information, I don't think that Feinstein's concealed carry permit is appropriate for this article. With more information about the politics and violence of the 1970's, and in a longer article it might be a useful addition. --Paul 15:52, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

---

I agree that the paragraph is too POV even in its apparent edited form, and I've removed it from the article and pasted it here for further editing by someone who could do a better job with the specifics than I could.

Ms. Feinstein is a noted opponent of the interpretation of the Second Amendment to the US Constitution as applying to individuals. Ms. Feinstein holds a California concealed weapons permit and owns several handguns. She has been accused of taking advantage of her position in government to acquire a concealed weapons permit for herself while denying that opportunity to the "common man".

Vic Troy 04:51, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

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A remark: the point was to introduce Feinstein's hypocrisy. She is generally regarded within the gun community as an elitist who doesn't seem to be worried about safety so much as the unwashed masses having access to firearms. I'll dig up sources and statements which back that up a little sometime. Stiletto Null 08:03, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Here we go...[http://www.frazmtn.com/~bwallis/DF_DODO.PDF#search=feinsteinak47

Feinstein and some contradictory statements]. Stiletto Null 13:45, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

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Dianne Feinstein is not my favorite Senator either, nor I am in favor of gun control laws, but an encyclopedia article is not the place for "introduc[ing] Feinstein's hyprocisy." Nor is an encyclopedia article an op-ed piece and it is not a place to fight old or new political wars or settle a grudge. If someone wanted to write a biography critical of Feinstein, then that would be a great place for gun control comments and the "evidence press conference" stuff. But this isn't a popular biography, and this isn't right venue. --Paul 18:21, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

---

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." -Second Amendment to the U.S Constitution

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it." -Diane Feinstein

Diane Feinstein is doing her best to remove the Constitutional right of private citizens to own firearms. Thus our basic freedoms, enshrined by our founding fathers in the U.S. Constitution, are irrelevant to Ms. Feinstein.

"Some people are more equal than others." -George Orwell

Her transparent hypocrisy became evident when, as gun owner, she used her clout as a politician to demand a concealed carry permit from the state of California. These permits are not available to ordinary citizens. After her duplicity was exposed, she had her guns melted into a cross and presented to the Pope -- a tasteless, ostentatious gesture.

Although these facts are irrefutable, apparently Wikipedia is the "wrong venue". Evidently, only pleasant facts about its subjects are permitted.

-Freedom Fan November 11, 2005

So let me get this straight: if someone whom works towards disarming the population by passing laws has a permit to carry guns themselves, this makes them NOT a hypocrite? Sorry, even though you are deleting these things because you think they are "POV" and that someone is trying to "make her into a hypocrite", the facts remain that Diane Feinsten has made many legislative attempts at civilian disarmament while posessing firearms herself. While trying to be objective, you are ignoring the reality. - Dobb's Head, Panama - 15th of January, in the Year of Our Lord 2006.

As of 1/26/06, there remains a mention of the concealed carry permit, but the phrasing of the sentence needs to be improved, the current text has some antecedent problems and appears to suggest that gun rights groups criticize Feinstein despite her having a concealed carry permit, which is clearly not the intended statement. --Joe Decker 00:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm probably going to have a renowned gun rights activist/computer expert of my aquaintance post the picture of this socialist sow with an AK-47 in her hands,magazine inserted,finger on trigger,muzzle pointed at crowd.Do any of you remember the picture?

Saltforkgunman 06:44, 22 February 2006 (UTC) I'm of fairly conservative bent and not a fan of Feinstein. That said, the fact that she had a concealed carry permit is a fact and belongs in wikipedia. I note that it is impossible to conceal an assault weapon upon one's person, and that nuance with regard to the second amendment seems to indicate that you can be in favor of small concealable arms but not in favor of allowing large magazines or semi-automatic riflery. So, to put it bluntly, that should be the thrust of this section -- to show factually the nuance of Feinstein's position without judging that position. So, state she had a conceal carry permit, and state the type of firearm for which the permit was issued, and state her other positions on the matter, but omit the words which (obviously) judge her position. Unclesmrgol 04:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anonymous distrust

The following weasel-worded paragraph contains no references. It may be right, but it needs to be backed up.

Because of her record of moderation and bipartisanship, Feinstein is distrusted by some on the political left. She is often labeled unfavorably by them as pro-business, as she has voted for most lawsuit reform measures and was a cosponsor of the Class Action Fairness Act of 2005. She voted for the first tax cuts in 2001 and also for the prescription drug plan in 2003. Both positions were unpopular with many in her own party. Feinstein supported the use of military force in Iraq and is a firm supporter of capital punishment. Critics point out positions like these to indicate that she is not a true or loyal Democrat. Such critics overlook her record on other issues: she voted against NAFTA, the Defense of Marriage Act, school prayer, welfare reform, and the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005.

• It is a dubious section. I think it has some valid points but needs to be revised and have sources to validate thise claims.Kiwidude 01:22, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Dianne Rocks!Kiwidude 00:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Laundering this article

I wrote the first version of this article way back in May 2003. After revisiting the article today and viewing its edit history, I get the distinct impression that a group of Feinstein apologists have been systematically cleansing this article of legitimate information about Senator Feinstein in the name of NPOV. I am going to start introducing (or re-introducing) information into this article which has been laundered. Chadloder 19:27, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Be careful and fair. The fact that you are the "orignial" author does not give you any special right to ignore the NPOV edict of Wikipedia or to push any political view. --Paul 23:11, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Paul, being the original author doesn't give you special priveleges to disregard NPOV.Kiwidude 01:14, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I never suggested that being the original author gives me special rights. Chadloder 05:00, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Your impression seems to be right on target. See below. Sir Paul 15:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1990 Campaign

I removed the text "funded by her husband" from this phrase:

In 1990 she made an unsuccessful bid, funded by her husband, for Governor of California, losing to Republican Senator Pete Wilson

In 1990 Feinstein was not some third party or independent gadfly, she was the Democratic Party candidate for the Governor of California. Her husband was undoubtedly a major contributor to her campaign, but the campaign was not "funded by her husband." The redacted language implies that Feinstein was not widely supported and had to rely on personal wealth for her campaign. This is simply not true. The language is misleading and irrelevant. --Paul 20:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

please provide a citation to that effect, if possible. Anastrophe 21:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

never mind - i found some information relevant to that campaign which i have added, including source. Anastrophe 21:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

This does appear to be a "true fact", but I don't understand the point of including it. Wikipedia is supposed to be an on-line encyclopedia, which implies structured articles, not just a collection of facts. In such a short article the inclusion of the fact that her campaign and treasurer was fined in 1990 seems arbitrary and out of place. Is this the only time her one of her campaigns has been fined? Is it the most egregous example? Is it worse than fines assessed against her opponents? It just seems like a weed in the middle of the lawn, because there is no context for it. --Paul 22:07, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

"a weed in the middle of the lawn" implies that the 'pleasant' facts of the article are the desireable majority, but the 'unpleasant' facts are to be removed (what else does one do with weeds?). not a good metaphor. the context is implicit - it refers directly to the content of the previous sentence.Anastrophe 00:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

You are correct. I was suggesting that it be removed, but not because it is 'unpleasant.' I would removed it simply because it does not fit into a narrative of her political career. It is not a significant fact about which offices she has run for, and which she has occupied. It is a factlet which is awkwardly stuck into the paragraph, and it is stylistically inappropriate. --Paul 00:08, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

i disagree. it's a straight, npov statement of a fact associated with her first run for governor. it's true, and notable. it should remain. Anastrophe 00:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

additionally, it is a significant fact; failure to report campaign funding properly is a notable malfeasance for any major or minor candidate. it is no more or less noteworthy than other 'factlets' that are associated with her other runs for office (if losing by a single percentage point in an election is noteworthy, then so is a malfeasance). Anastrophe 00:33, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] anyone see this?

Interesting... http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/09/MNGSCH5M1V4.DTL Giovanni33 21:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

There's also a New York Times editorial on the subject:

The deletion of unattractive facts by apple-polishers became so obvious that Wikipedia's detectives temporarily blocked some Senate addresses from making entries. The electronic addresses of Senate offices turn out to be more easily traced than those of House members, so there is no comparable record of protective edits by lower house scriveners.

Senator Dianne Feinstein's net worth was mysteriously deleted from her biography, along with the $190,000 fine she had to pay for not disclosing that her husband had guaranteed her 1990 campaign loans. Wikinews, the encyclopedia's arm of corrective reporters, found Senator Joseph Biden's past problems with campaign plagiarism charges had evaporated, thanks to someone at one of his office computers. Members of Senator Norm Coleman's staff massaged a description of him as a liberal college Democrat; he morphed into an "activist," then merely an "active college student." A reference to Senator Tom Harkin's discredited claims to have flown combat missions in Vietnam disappeared.

Sir Paul 15:52, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese New Year Pic

Are you sure that's Dianne Feinstein? It looks like Nancy Pelosi, the House Minority Leader; she too is from sf.Kiwidude 19:10, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hilarious, but come on now...

"In 1980, she married Richard C. Blum, a shady investment banker and fulltime crook. Their personal fortune is estimated to be between $25 million and $50 million. In 2003, Feinstein was ranked the fifth wealthiest senator, with an estimated net worth of $26 million, which should be cause enough for voters to bounce this bitch out of office, but unfortunately, far too many SF voters are mentally ill themselves. [3]"

"Feinstein's daughter, Katherine Feinstein Mariano, is a superior court judge in San Francisco, which just goes to show that wealthy parents can buy their useless spoiled children right into the judiciary."

"Feinstein served on the Trilateral Commission during the 1980s while mayor of San Francisco, and is now a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, both groups are cabals for the wealthy, new world order."—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pathaugen (talk • contribs).

Good point. Next time, please remove (revert) this sort of garbage yourself.

Also, if a comment were posted to a talk/discussion page every time that someone posted nonsense to main article, wikipedia's talk/discussion pages would be overflowing - so please don't do that next time. Thanks. John Broughton 19:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Irresponsible remarks

This article is riddled with inappropriate comments throughout. Controversial aspects should be relegated to appropriate subs. Obvious attacks on Feinstein in the midst of what should be unbiased information isn't going to fool anyone, folks.

I got an article started on her on the political wiki Campaigns Wikia--check it out and put in the partisan crap there.

[edit] Her mother half Jewish?

The article says:

Senator Dianne Feinstein was born Dianne Emiel Goldman[1] in San Francisco to a Jewish father and a mother, Betty Rosenburg, who was of mixed Jewish and Russian Orthodox descent.

I have always understood that a person is Jewish or is not depending on being born to a Jewish mother or else being converted to Judaism. In my opinion the Jewishness of her parents does not need to be mentioned at all. Either Senator Feinstein was born Jewish or converted or else we can not say she is Jewish. Steve Dufour 06:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC) What I'm saying is if she is Jewish just say that, don't make it complex. The statement about her parents opens up a can of worms, (which certainly are not Kosher.)  :-)

I went ahead and changed the sentence. There seems to be enough evidence that she is, indeed, Jewish. Steve Dufour 13:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subcommittee on Military Construction Appropriations

"On March 29, 2007, she resigned from the Senate Military Construction Appropriations subcommittee. Feinstein was chairperson and ranking member of MILCON for six years, during which time she had a conflict of interest due to her husband Richard C. Blum's ownership of two major defense contractors, who were awarded billions of dollars for military construction projects approved by Feinstein."

I feel there are a number of problems stemming from this portion of the article. Least of all, there is no "Senate Military Construction Appropriations" subcommittee per se. I assume the desired subcommittee is the "Senate Subcommittee on Military Construction, Veterans Affairs, and Related Agencies."

More deeply troubling, the date given for her resignation from this subcommittee varies from source to source. What is apparently the original article by Peter Byrne appears at Bohemian with a dateline of 14-20 March, 2007 and at MetroActive with a dateline of 21-27 March, 2007. Messageboard references to said article appear here on 22 March, 2007 and here on 23 March, 2007. Clearly, the date given in the Wiki article cannot be correct. I was unable to find authoritative reference to when she did, in fact, leave this subcommittee. Relevant to this question, the Wiki article on this subcommittee does not appear, according to the history page, to have ever included Feinstein as a member of this subcommittee in the 110th Congress (since the creation of the page on 28 January, 2007). It seems, therefore, impossible that Feinstein could ever have been chairperson of this subcommittee, as it would only be since the inauguration of the 110th Congress that a Democrat would hold that position. Whether she was ever the ranking member in previous years, I have not been able to determine.

Finally, the statement "during which time she had a conflict of interest due to her husband Richard C. Blum's ownership of two major defense contractors" is not NPOV unless it cites a judgement to that effect by an ethics body with relevant jurisdiction. Otherwise, this is an allegation, not a fact, and should at least be denoted as such if not removed from the article entirely. Nllewellyn 16:16, 30 March 2007 (UTC)