Talk:Diesel
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[edit] Turn this into a redirect?
Should this become a REDIRECT Diesel engine ? JeLuF
Could this be fixed up so that the Diesel page becomes the one for disambiguation, and the content for that page goes to Diesel fuel (eliminating the redirect there)? HWDP!! An anon removed the reference to Charles Kettering from the intro without explaining it, so I've added it back in. It's possible it is overstating Kettering's role, though - can anybody confirm this? sjorford →•← 10:50, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
- Not even the homepage of the Kettering Fund says anything that justifies his name here. I'll remove it. - Alureiter 14:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Historical Questions
I have a quick question / request for reference. In the article it currently says, "Rudolf Diesel originally designed the diesel engine to use coal dust as a fuel, but oil proved more effective." This is in contrast to the story I've always been told, which was that Diesel's first engine designs were supposed to run on peanut or other vegetable oils. I don't have a source for this statement either, which is why I'm not going to change anything, but I wondered if someone could clarify and substantiate one side or the other. -Kadin2048 13:30, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Chemical properties
Diesel fuel chemically? -- Joonas
- I was wondering the same thing so I googled for it. I found this which appears to be reliable, but I was unsure if I could just quote it all. Compiling the information is a work of the US government (specifically the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry), but the data specifically comes from the IARC, which is part of the World Health Organization, so it may be copyrighted. Can anyone shed any light on that? I'd like to include the data from table 3-2 and 3-3 specifically. - Taxman Talk 18:07, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Article name
Why isn't this called Diesel (fuel) or some such? Then wikis could go diesel engine, or diesel fuel as necessary. GraemeLeggett 10:19, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Yeah, if not here, the best name would be Diesel (fuel), but I don't see the major need. If someone is looking for something diesel related they see the engine article and Rudolph Diesel's article right in the first sentence. - Taxman Talk 12:23, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] E-Diesel
E-Diesel is a blend of ethanol & diesel and should be mentioned in this article. Check it out: [1]
- Hmm, just an opinion, but seems like just another measure by the corn and ethanol lobby to promote their product. E-diesel, according to their website, has a much lower flash point than diesel, can't be used in a mixture higher than 15% ethanol, requires an additive to keep it from separating out of the mixture, and lowers the energy content and fuel efficiency. I'm still looking for a benefit that isn't already better in biodiesel. Well maybe the cold flow properties, and maybe it could be used to improve that for biodiesel, but the additive e-diesel requires doesn't seem like it could be cheap to make. Notwithstanding my opinion, it should be covered if it is reasonably important. I didn't see any information on that website that shows it has made it anywhere beyond the laboratory. If there was some information available on how much of it is actually used, price, etc, then maybe we'd have something. - Taxman Talk July 5, 2005 17:18 (UTC)
DIESEL
There is a mention of a blend of 95% ethanol and 5% petrol being a replacement for diesel under the Synthetic Diesel section. Surely someone posted that as some kind of a joke, since I'm sure it will not work. If you're lucky, the engine won't start and all you will have destroyed is the lift pump and maybe your injection pump. I have not actually tried this mixture in my diesel (nor do I intend to) but I'm pretty sure that it would cause rapid and destructive coking of the injectors and pre-chamber (as well as the preglow plugs, I would think) not to mention the destruction of any pumps and other fuel system parts dependent on the lubricity of diesel oil. This seems like dangerously inaccurate information and, unless it can be backed up by credible info and tests, should be removed. --Diesel220 03:37, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
- I'm inclined to agree, so I removed it. If someone can substantiate the material it can go back in, but not without a quality source to verify it. Don't be too scared to remove dubious material that has no source as long as you note it on the talk page. Wrong information is worse than no information, and if it is correct, it could easily be replaced. - Taxman Talk 14:41, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Grades
An explanation of the differences between diesel A and diesel B would be useful. Jzylstra Aug 5, 2005
A definition of #1 and #2 diesel fuel and info on their gelling point should be added.Wilsonbond 18:45, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Similarity to Heating Oil
Is it the same or not? This article says that it is distilled similarly then later that they are the same.
I have always understood them to be functionally identical, the only difference being the dye that marks the fuel as not taxed for road use. The diesel sold at fuel docks(marine fuel) and sold for off road use(heavy equipment, etc.) is identical (including the red dye) to heating oil. If this can be confirmed it seems that section should be edited.
[edit] diesel exhaust smell
I put in this line:-
Diesel engines are notorious for exhaust smell.
and User:Alureiter deleted it: (Revert, a modern diesel car's exhaust doesn't smell any different to gasoline cars). But I beg to differ: I have motorcycled near or behind or past enough diesel buses and lorries/trucks, and diesel exhaust smells the same as it always did. Ditto when I have been on diesel water craft about 100 feet long. On a motorcycle I can't wind the windows up when there is a smell nearby. Anthony Appleyard 23:12, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Diesel Slang
I have heard the word Diesel many times used in slang to describe someone as strong, musclar, etc generally a person who is larger and is considered to be hardworking or unstoppable, example being an American Football player, especally a lineman for either side, fullback or linebacker. Also I have found Diesel Dyke used to refur to a especally "butch" lesbian. additional sources [2] [3]
[edit] where can i find an equation for diesel fuel
[edit] why in the UK is diesel SO expensive?
is it because we tax it so much or is it because our diesel is so refined and pure (it's colourless) that it costs a little more to produced compared to unleadef octane 95 petrol?
I refer ofcourse to car diesel: not diesel buses use which in my city - is frankly liquid bituman
- It is expensive because the refineries in Europe cannot be altered to produce more diesel and less gasoline - they have to produce a set amount of both. In other words, lets say a refinery can turn 3 barrels of crude oil into 1 barrel of gasoline, 1 barrel of diesel, and 1 barrel of other products. In Europe, if a refiner wants to make 1000000 barrels of diesel, it would have no choice but to make 1000000 barrels of gasoline. The American refineries are more flexible, which lets them produce more diesel on demand, and less gasoline. What has happened is that Europe has to produce too much gasoline to try to meet their diesel needs, and the gasoline is then exported to the United States. This makes the cost of gasoline in the United States lower, because Europe has no choice but to drop the price of gasoline until someone will take it from them. Then the United States makes more diesel to meet the rest of Europe's needs, but since this is demand driven instead of supply driven, the American refineries can set their price higher, and it increases the cost of diesel in Europe. Also there are extensive taxes, etc, and it takes more oil to produce a set amount of diesel than the same amount of gasoline. However, because of the bigger energy content of diesel, this is mitigated by the increase in fuel efficiency. The fact that Europe uses ultra low sulfur diesel (ULSD) does not strongly impact the price - sulphur extraction is relatively easy. The only problem might be that an additive has to be put in to increase the lubricity of the diesel fuel. I don't know which one Europe uses, but it is probably biodiesel, which would not increase the price significantly. (I work as an energy analyst) --Ignignot 17:33, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Blonde2max 19:24, 6 April 2006 (UTC) But on the continent diesel is far cheaper than petrol. it's just the UK thats getting ripped off again
- Not everywhere on the continent - Diesel is more expensive then petrol in Switzerland - AFAIK this is due to Tax. 81.221.177.166 18:08, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Diesels produce less CO2 them petrol engines for each mile traveled.
And that's not dificult to see. Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline (petrol) engines of the same power, resulting in lower fuel consumption. A common margin is 40% more miles per gallon for an efficient turbodiesel. It's 40% less gallons you burn. Take CO2 pollution: 22 pounds/gallon * 0,4 = 8.8 pounds/gallon became less than the petrol's engine 19.4 pounds/gallon. The Statement: "In other words, a petrodiesel powered engine must have greater than 15% more fuel efficiency than a petrol engine in order to reduce greenhouse gas emissions." It's a false statement. I'm removing it.
83.240.180.157 03:00, 25 August 2006 (UTC)John Arau --83.240.180.157 03:00, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] it's Red Diesel in the US too
"In the United Kingdom it is known as red diesel"
According to my Automotive Technology teacher, the untaxed agricultural diesel in the United States is also called "Red Diesel"
Can anyone else confirm this?
--MercenaryKris23 07:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] lpg blent with diesel
lpg blent with diesel used in oilotors such as in agri
[edit] Removed phrase
I removed the phrase "In the United States, the color green has become associated with the fuel and is commonly used on fuel pumps and labels." from the first paragraph, as if we are going to list what colours the pumps are in the US, we'll have to do it for every other country in its own section. I suggets if someone wants to put it back in, that they place it elsewhere in the article. Mouse Nightshirt 13:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 'synthetic diesel'
I haven't edited anything previously and don't know how, so I hope someone with the requisite knowledge will edit out the unnecessary bad language in the 'synthetic diesel' section.
welcome. a great place to start is Frequently Asked Questions and Getting started. Hopfully you will create an account and stay for a while. Hu12 05:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Miss directed
I believe this page is missdirected.
First of all, when the diese cycle was invented, there was no such thing on the market as "diesel fuel" (evidently). So whenever someone browses wikipedia for diesel without specifying anything else I believe the user should be directed differently.
The most important aspect, would be the diesel cycle (refering to the thermodynamical cycle) which gives name to the fuel known as diesel.
Items on the disambiguation page should link to
Rudolph Diesel (Inventor of the Diesel Cycle
Diesel (fuel)
This is very important since otherwise this article is very misleading. The fuel known as diesel was called that after petrol companies decided to market one of their products aimed to the invention by Rudolph Diesel. The thermodynamical cycle, does NOT require this fuel to run on. Technically, it would be more accurate to refer diesel to biodiesel since this second option is more related to the original fuel utilized when the cycle was invented. It would still be wrong though since the main aspect is the thermodynamical cycle which has the flexibility to run on one or another fuel. I have no refenrences for this, but I believe most of this is common knowledge and if someone has the time to assign references to it, that would be great.
But I do strongly believe that the article as directed today is VERY misleading, specially to people not familiar with the subject.
Orgoca 18:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC)Carlos Ortiz (orgoca@gmail.com)
[edit] Japan
Apparently, here in Japan, diesel cars/pumps are in the "being phased out" stage.
138.243.228.52 08:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Redirect
I posted the missdirected blog a while ago and I have no responses yet. So unless someone has arguments against me not doing so, I will redirect diesel as I stated above. I will do so in a month time from now to give time to anyone that might have an objection or suggestion about it to make it public. Orgoca 18:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC) "Look up on misdirected blog"
[edit] Rudolf Diesel
Someone messed up Rudolf Diesel by writing comments into that article instead of correcting it. --Espoo 01:35, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Additives - subsection required
Having had to give up refuelling my car today due to excessive foaming as the fuel entered the tank (pump kept cutting out), came here (via diesel fuel) to find out about why diesel fuel is prone to foam, and about anti-foaming agents added to the fuel.
There's nothing here!
Now I know absolutely nothing about the subject, so any content added would be very high-level. Could someone more knowledgeable add something please? Need to cover: why additives may be required; what additives are used; how the additives work; side-effects; environmental issues; etc.
To help out, I have found an extremely good website page, from Automotive Engineering Online. The page specifically covers the testing of additives, but, out of necessity, also describes what many of them are and what they do.
(Apologies for excessive use of italics... :o) )
EdJogg 10:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Products of diesel combustion
I am disappointed to see a real lack of information in this article about the extremely and acutely harmful products produced by diesel combustion in comparison to petroleum.
The high aromatic content of diesel, along with high sulphur content, produces many extremely harmful chemicals on combustion, such as benzo(a)pyrene which have a direct and vast effect in urban areas, primarily to human health.
Is there anyone out there with a high enough understanding of diesel combustion to add this to the article?
For years it has annoyed me that diesel has been encouraged as a fuel in order to aide the reduction of CO2 emmisions and therefore aide the statistics which governments spew upon us. Diesel emmisions may have a lower CO2 output per unit energy, but some of it's byproducts of combustion are scarily dangerous and vastly understated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.145.107.239 (talk) 15:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Cite a 1930 road trip?
The article says
The very first diesel-engine automobile trip was completed on 6 January 1930. The trip was from Indianapolis to New York City, a distance of nearly 1300 km. This feat helped to prove the usefulness of the internal combustion engine.
but this seems dubious. By 1930 the internal combustion engine seems proven (millions of Ford's Model Ts were produced from 1908 to 1927). Either the date or its significance seems wrong Wendell 02:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
