Talk:Diogenes of Sinope

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Contents 1 Bust in the Capitol 2 The things you own... 3 A Form of Skeptism (Diogenes the Dog) 4 Another anecdote 5 The Glamours of a Low Population World 6 Citizen of the world 7 Performance Artist

[edit] Bust in the Capitol

Which capitol?

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—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.114.60.186 (talk • contribs) 07:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC). According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_self-reflection#Classical_antiquity, it was Socrates (not Plato) who defined humans as "featherless bipeds". Of course, Socrates never wrote anything down, and it was Plato who quoted Socrates as saying such.

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Is this the Diogenes who used to masturbate in the marketplace?

yes funkendub

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My source says that actually Diogenes did not live in the tub, but in a small hut. Where is the truth? Ruziklan 20:46, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

There is no "truth" as regards Diogenes. There are many stories and anecdotes; the most complete of these is the "biography" (perhaps little more than a collection of anecdotes) by Diogenes Laertes. funkendub

Who is diogenes and why is he important? --68.252.162.198 22:50, 26 September 2005 (UTC)Sara

Diogenes was an important philosopher in ancient Greece, around the time of Plato. He was a member of the school of Cynics, who were highly critical of social mores as being in conflict with nature. Like Socrates, he had an important impact not merely through his words but through is unconventional way of life. Jeremy J. Shapiro 02:27, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually, there probably was no organized "school of cynics." The whole point of Cynicism was its emphasis of self-reliance. funkendub

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What does anybody know about Nietzche's The Gay Science? I think he was using Diogenes as a tool in in his famous "god is dead" passage. Does anyone know anything?

I can say with a good degree of certainty that "the madman" who goes through the marketplace with a lantern "looking for god" is Nietzsche's then contemporary version of Diogenes who was said to have carried a lantern "looking for an honest man." I lack the grammatical cunning, ability to settle my schizophrenic writing tendencies and work ethic to add this bit to the article properly, but I hope that someone with more confidence than I (and hopefully just as much repect for the article) does.

[edit] The things you own...

I just read this exchange on Slashdot in which someone claims that Tyler Durden's phrase “The things you own wind up owning you” originates with Diogenes. Can anyone support or refute this claim? It is an interesting pop culture reference if it is true. ―BenFrantzDale 14:12, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

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"If Manes can live without Diogenes, why not Diogenes without Manes?" Who is Manes?

Manes is the servant. Nareek 22:29, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Manes was Diogenes' servant he brought along to Athens from Sinope. Servants were common during those times. — Sshadow 10:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

"Servant" would be a misnomer in this case, as Manes was Diogenes' slave. Slaves were often treated as members of the family but they nonetheless lacked citizenship and certainly were not paid for their labors. funkendub 21:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Form of Skeptism (Diogenes the Dog)

I Have read another book "Philosophy: For Beginners" by Richard Osborne, though it is not clearly stated, Diogenes and Aristotle were probably contemporaries but i dont think Plato and Diogenes where.

    Form of Skeptism:
     In 323bc ALexander the Great died. Athens rose against Macedonia, and because of his     
     (Aristotle)years of tutor, a charge of impiety was brought against Aristotle. No Lover    
     of hemlock, he quietly left Athens, and died two years later.. probably 325-326 bc

Meanwhile, back in the Academy and the Lyceum, things werent going so well... The confident questioning outlook of the citizen-aristocrat like Plato has gone.

With Antisthenesa a new Skeptism arises, whih was to be absorbed into the Academy in its years of decline. He Argued that it was impossible to make significant statements, example "What I am now saying is a Lie" <-- if this is true its false and if its false its true, true or false?

Clever Paradox-mongering like this bacame fashionable.

A colorful descipline of Antisthenes was Diogenes (c. 350 bc) He lived a life as primitive as a dog. From the Greek "kuvikos" = dog-like, we get the word Cynism. BATA

Diogenes, Plato and Aristotle were all alive and, at one point or another, living in Athens at the same time. funkendub 21:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another anecdote

During the big commotion, as the Athenians started building the Long Walls (for defence), Diogenes was seen rolling his tub to and fro in the city. When asked, he said that he didn't want to be less active than the others. If someone finds a source for this, it would be good to mention. In primary school classes, in Greece, it is the most important anecdote told on him. Hoverfish 18:17, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

This anecdote (you have it mostly correct) is one of many to be found in Diogenes Laertes "biography"--really a collection of stories about ancient philosophers and rulers. Leartes wrote hundreds of years after the death of the Kynic. funkendub 21:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Glamours of a Low Population World

For all intents and purposes, this gentlemen sounds like merely a mad homeless man by contemporary standards. There are many highly educated, philosophically gifted, mad homeless folk living all around the world; however then the population of the world was so microscopic by comparison glory, fame and notoriety was more easily reached. Perhaps I am being stoic, or at best a cynic in this instance, which I'm sure the gent would be proud of, but I feel that this should be addressed in some way in the article. 211.30.71.59 06:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

This is certainly an accurate assessment, from a modern perspective, and is a point made by numerous of our contemporaries. e.g. Goulet-Caze and especially Navia. funkendub 21:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citizen of the world

Diogenes is the first person known to have said, "I am a citizen of the whole world" (cosmopolites). This was a radical claim in a world where a man's identity was intimately tied to his citizenship in a particular city state.

Wikiquote:Socrates#Plutarch says that Socrates had expressed this thought (though perhaps in more words). Diogenes was about 13 years old when Socrates died if we assume that Diogenes was born in 412 BC, so it seems unlikely that Socrates said it first. - furrykef (Talk at me) 21:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Performance Artist

Performance artist? Come on now, that's anachronistic in the extreme. The whole "dog theme" section needs some real attention. If there's no objection I'll clean it up. --Hippolytus 15:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)