Talk:Disputed status of Gibraltar

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For previous discussions see:

• Archive 1 Nov 2004 - Nov 2005
• Archive 2 Nov 2005 - Dec 2005
• Archive 3 Dec 2005 - Nov 2006

Contents 1 Rejection of claim 2 NPOV 3 Spanish parties 4 Moving picture 5 Economy 6 Relevance

[edit] Rejection of claim

user:Rebroad says 'not sure you can speak for all Gibraltarians'

in relation to the rejection of Spanish sovereignty, the Gibraltarians speak for themselves, its more a question of listening to what was said in the referendum in 2002, described in the article.

When the result was announced the Chief Minister stated:

A clear message had been sent to the world, and that a democratic politican at his own peril describes this result as irrelevent ... The result is one of democracy at work in its purest form ... The vote is the result of the will of the people of Gibraltar and that the concept of "Joint Sovereignty" is a dead end.

For their part the British Government accept the rights of the people in the 2006 constitution which states:

Her Majesty’s Government will never enter into arrangements under which the people of Gibraltar would pass under the sovereignty of another state against their freely and democratically expressed wishes.

Further, Gibraltar being a place which despite the small size has more political parties, societies and groups sometimes for our own good, there is not one which advocates union with Spain.

The situation is very different to that in Northern Ireleand where there are groupings in favour of different things. Whatever our differences on the style of Government etc, in relation to the Spanish sovereignty claim there is unity.

Use of the word 'currently' is inappropriate this implies there may be a change around the corner, there is no sign at present and Wikipedia policy is not to speculate. --Gibnews 11:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

I admit I haven't read too much of the article but you only have to read the first line that contains the word "Irredentist" and IMO it's NPOV to say the Spanish claim is irredentist. Yonatanh 15:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree the article is laced with POV and weasel words.--Vintagekits 15:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

irredentist is a foreign affairs term which encapsulates the Spanish claim to Gibraltar perfectly. I suggest you read the wikipedia article defining it, and appreciate its just a term; it has not got any particular negative or positive meaning attached to it, rather like saying the sky is blue. The wording used to describe the claim as 'outdated' which after 300 years it most certainly is.

Similarly the article about Gibraltar does not have any particular point of view, its an article describing the place, its people and its relations with its neigbours. Because it is British, that may annoy those with an overt anti-British agenda, but it is and its not expressing any particular POV to say so.

--Gibnews 17:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, Gibraltar is clearly a classic example of an irrendenta. -- ChrisO 20:20, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

• And i third that Gibnews--Boris Johnson VC 19:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish parties

Is the position of Spanish parties unanimous? For example, Izquierda Unida aims to a federation for Spain and, methinks, self-determination for Spanish regions. --Error 18:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

It does not matter what anyone in Spain thinks, Gibraltar is not part of that country any more than it is part of Albania.

The only parties I want to join have food and drink. --Gibnews 22:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moving picture

One of the problems with HTML is that it looks quite different to everyone as there is a variation in screen resolutions and type size. The picture of the demonstation should go with the description of the reasons for it. It does on my 800 x 600 screen nicely. --Gibnews 16:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Economy

The only relevance to Gibraltar's economy in this section is the first line. The rest is they said / we said arguing. At best, they are examples of contention between the Spanish media and Government, the British media and Government, and the gibraltarian government and residents.

I suggest a complete rewrite of this section, specifically a cut & paste from the summary of the main article:

Main article: Economy of Gibraltar

The economy of Gibraltar is managed and controlled by the Government of Gibraltar. Whilst being part of the EU, Gibraltar has a separate legal jurisdiction from the United Kingdom and enjoys a different tax system. The role of the (British) Ministry of Defence, which at one time was the main source of income has declined, with today's economy based on shipping, tourism, finance centre activities, and the Internet.

- Tiswas^(t/c) 13:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

My oops - forgot that this was an article on the disputed status of Gib, not on the Island itself. - Tiswas^(t/c) 13:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Island ? regretably its not ... --Gibnews 17:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

A typo. Albeit possibly accurate in the geopolitical sense. - Tiswas^(t/c) 12:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Its a common mistake made by visiting politicians, and indeed at one stage in its development it was an island, but the area of the isthmus silted up, which is why its flat and sandy. Indeed even in modern times access was via a causeway with the sea on both sides. Digging a canal would be interesting project, indeed given the level difference between the bay and the east side it might be possible to generate electricity from the flow of water taking a short cut. --Gibnews 17:15, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relevance

There appear to be a number of citations and references that have little to no relevance to the article title, the disputed status of Gib. There is a preponderance of examples where the Spanish [government|media|population] have complained (sourced or not), but there is little relevance of these complaints to sovereignty. The complaints (where properly cited) may provide evidence of antagonism between the Spanish and the British (and gibraltarian) governments, but they are symptomatic of the overall dispute, and hardly worthy of inclusion in their own right. - Tiswas^(t/c) 14:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The recent history of Gibraltar has many instances of the Spanish Government of the day lieing through its teeth about Gibraltar and introducing all sorts of nonsense arguments to support an ongoing ill founded irredentist claim to the territory;

However, if you want to remove some of this rot, please list it here so we can agree that it is rightly consigned to the dustbin of history.

---Gibnews 14:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)