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Contents 1 Comments 1.1 Comment 1.2 Greek? 1.3 definition 1.4 Etymology

[edit] Comments

[edit] Comment

I dont know how to use arabic text, so will someone do me the favor of adding waraq dawali as the arabic name of the food, and state that it is popular in Levantine Arab countries. Thank you -Niz

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Sorry but this Armenian etymology addition is hilarious, who on Earth added somthing so unbelievable. Dolma is clealy a Turkic etymology meaning Dolma = To Fill, Dol = Fill, when ma is added it becomes "To Fill", from my holiday trips to Turkey picking up the little of the language I know it is a commonly used word.

Also Dolma is not generally stuffed with meat, its a vegetarian dish, some versions may have a little mincemeat but that's all.

User:Johnstevens5

In Greece, at least, with-meat and without-meat versions of dolma are both common, with preference depending largely on the time of year (vegetarian is more common in the summertime; meat in the wintertime). --Delirium 21:34, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greek?

The greek says "dolmadakia", but a transliteration of the greek text says "dolmadhes" ("ntolmades"). Could someone "in the know" please correct it? As yet there isn't even a greek article for reference... Tomer^talk 23:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

They're both correct; the "-akia" version is a diminutive plural ending, while the "-adhes" version is a "normal" plural ending. They have slightly different connotations, but are mostly interchangeable. --Delirium 21:31, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] definition

In English usage as far as I'm aware, and certainly in Greek usage, "dolma" refers specifically to the stuffed grape leaves, and does not include stuffed tomatoes, stuffed peppers, or other such dishes that go by different names, such as "yemista". The article currently says they all go under the general term "dolma"; is this a usage common in English? --Delirium 21:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The Oxford Companion to Food's article on dolma is primarily about stuffed vegetables, though it also mentions the rolled grape leaves (sarma). I am not sure what other generic name we could use for the Ottoman stuffed vegetables, which are found from the Balkans to Arabia. --Macrakis 23:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I have changed this article so that the variance of usage between British English and American English does not mislead. The same vegetable is commonly given different names in Britain and in the USA. The vegetable that in Turkish is called 'kabak' is called commonly 'zucchini' by the Americans taking its origin from Italian but generally called 'courgette' by the British taking its origin from French. Similarly, the same vegetable that is called 'patlican' in Turkish is called commonly by the Americans 'eggplant' and called generally by the British 'aubergine' which is originally French. The article before my correction gave the impression that 'zucchini' and 'courgette' were different vegetables; similarly 'eggplant' and 'aubergine'. --User:noyder 00:35, 16 March 2007

[edit] Etymology

Perhaps we should go a step further and cut out all the grammatical details for the verb dolmak. I still think that it is an active verbal noun because dolmak is an intransitive verb so it can't have a passive form. None of this, however, is important to this article so perhaps we could rewrite that sentence as: "Dolma is derived from the Turkish verb dolmak which means "to become stuffed" and thus roughly means "stuffed thing"." Xemxi 17:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty happy with the current wording, which incorporates your correction (that it is a verbal noun and not a participle), but doesn't specify whether it is active or passive. As GL Lewis points out in Turkish Grammar (p 171), in English, too, verbal nouns can be used both passively and actively, e.g. "the singing of the choir" and "the singing of the song". I think it is good to note that it is a regularly formed verbal noun, just like ezme, yazma, bekleme, etc. --Macrakis 17:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it should be a reflexive verbal noun. If the verb would have been "doldurma" it would be an active verbal noun, or else if it would have been "doldurulma" it would be a passive one. But the verb "dolmak" seems like a reflexive one.

--Chapultepec 17:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Sure, that makes sense (leaving the sentence as is). But just for the record, dolmak ("to be full") can never be made passive because the verb can never have an object! The possibile derivatives include doldurmak (transitive: "to fill") and doldurulmak (intransitive: "to be filled"). It's counter-intuitive thinking about it in English terms because there is no English equivalent to dolmak. I don't think it is reflexive because that would imply the subject and object are the same. Anyhow, none of this belongs on a food page, so I'll leave it at that! Xemxi 17:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I see your point. Thanks. --Macrakis 20:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)