Talk:Domitian

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Commonly known as "Satan the Devil"? Uhh...please tell me that that is graffiti, and in relation to the pro-senatorial bias, see http://www.roman-emperors.org/domitian.htm

What exactly does "despite some arguments in the scientific community" mean? Did somebody do a test and discover the persecutions did not occur?

Who exactly questions the persecutions and why? Do they have historical credentials, or are they assumed to be experts because of scientific credentials? Need to contextualize. Jdavidb 21:41, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"He was also very fond of gladiator shows and added important innovations like women and dwarf gladiator fights." Uhmmm... important innovations? Mrzaius 20:27, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This discription follows the traditionally pro-Senatorial viewpoint of Domitian's reign and his effectiveness as a ruler. Much research has been done to reform Domitian's image and I will work to bring this here in the near future. draven5 02:50, 1 June 2005

"Sexual Significance Domitian remains significant in the history of sexuality for being the first Roman Emperor to use a spray on condom during one of his many attempts to 'ave a jab at one of dem dere Roman Bitches. {Source: S. Watson}"

wtf? don't make me laugh wikipedia

1 Domitian and early Christianity
- 1.1 Domitian and early Christianity
2 Article is unfair
3 What Happened? Vandalism?
4 Perhaps a few additions
5 TfD nomination of Template:Suetonius 12 Caesars

[edit] Domitian and early Christianity

This entire section is unsourced with a very strong POV that is pretty much irrelevent to an artical about Domitian. It should be removed or substantually rewritten with some citations about the claims made.RBobicus 21:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

How about from the mouths of the Romans themselves.

Seutonis - Lives of the Twelve Caesars - Domitian 15 "To conclude his last victim was Flavius Clemens, who is thought by some to be a convert to the Christian reilgion. He suddenly killed him."

And he died the same way as Jezebel in the Bible

But nothing so much disquieted Domitian as an answer given by Ascletario, the astrologer, and the accident that happened to him. This Ascletario had been informed against, and did not deny his having predicted that which by his art and learning he foresaw. Domitian asked him what end he thought he should come to himself. And the astrologer answered that his destiny was to be torn to pieces by dogs, Domitian ordered him immediately to be slain, and in order to prove the rashness and uncertainty of his art, caused him to be very carefully buried. But in the execution of this order, it chanced that the funeral pile was blown down by a sudden tempest, and Domitian's body, half burnt, was piecemeal by dogs; which, being observed by Latinus, the comic actor, as he chanced to pass that way, he told it, among the other news of the day, to the emperor at supper.

Seutonis - Lives of the Twelve Caesars - Domitian 15

The first quotation is inaccurate, and in the second Suetonius was discussing the death of the astrologer, not that of Domitian. I agree with RBobicus that the section as written does not belong in this article. I have moved it below. If anyone cares to preserve it, they could perhaps place in the article on Christian persecution. That said, within the Christian community there is a long established idea that there was a persecution under Domitian, derived from extrapolation from the New Testament book of Revelation. This is part of the historical discourse concerning Domitian, and might be profitably discussed as such in the article, if there were interest.--Nefasdicere 16:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Domitian and early Christianity

The neutrality of this section is disputed.
Please see discussion on the talk page.

For scholars, it is difficult to uncover Domitian's exact policy towards the developing Christian community. Many people believe that he was the Emperor during the time that the Revelation to John was authored (95 or 96). From a traditional Christian perspective, the Revelation, the final canonical book of the New Testament, reveals God's plan for the Apocalypse. From a secular viewpoint, the Revelation could be viewed as a reaction to the anti-Christian policies of Domitian and some earlier emperors. At the time, Christianity was a struggling religion attempting to find a foothold in the classical world. In addition to persecution, Christians were also facing pressure to conform to the Imperial Cult of Domitian. Although it is unclear that Domitian officially enforced adherence to the cult, scholars generally agree that Roman governors forced citizens to participate in order to prove their loyalty and patriotism. Since Christian doctrine specifically forbids the worship of idols, Christians refused to partake in this Imperial tradition. In the face of adversity many 'Christians' may have been doubting their beliefs and may even have been on the verge of abandoning Christianity all together (if they were even Christians to begin with.) In this atmosphere it is conceivable that John of Patmos wrote the Revelation in hopes of inspiring fledgling Christians to persevere. Within the book several symbolic references are made about the Roman Empire and the incumbent Emperor, possibly Domitian. In short, Christians are reminded that their Savior will return to reward those who believe.

[edit] Article is unfair

I studied Ancient History to degree level at university and this article repeats many of the mistakes often made about Domitian. It's been a while since I studied him and I've no longer access to my 1980s textbooks, though I recall that he was endowed with substantial administrative skills and was a very able emperor. The sources treat him harshly because (like Tiberius, another gifted leader) he gradually fell out with the senatorial class, from whom historians normally came. This article requires substantial revision from someone with a familiarity with the period bigpad 12:12, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The main Domitian historian whose work survives is Tactitus, whose father in law was one of Domitian's political enemies, this is probably part of why sources are biased Rurp 09:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

If somebody want short realistic facts about Domitian this is:

He has been second best emperor in administration skills (only August is better)
He has been mentaly sick ( from childhood ) but he has find way to control his wish to see death of other people.
He has been in military stuff really joke!

I really do not have time to start war on article page with morons which think that myths are reality. I have tried that with Caligula. rjecina 03:13 (CET), 4 october 2006

[edit] What Happened? Vandalism?

What happened? The article has been deleted. It's vandalism! Should we block 24.2.221.241?--Stratford15 23:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Perhaps a few additions

Although I am no professional historian (and that may invalidate my opinion right there!) it seems this article might also be improved by the addition of a few bits, such as Domitian's personality, his building and rebuilding of the 'limes' anti-siegework (ramparts, ditches, etc.) on and near the Danube, as well as some of the more colourful episodes known about him (his odd sense of humor, his propensity to begin each proclamation with the then-scandalous [if not necessarily so to those who recalled Gaius Caligula!] preamble "Our Lord and God commands..."), et al. Domiitian comes across in both the ancient sources and the modern re-evaluations as a man of parts which do not fit together (wisely another contributor to this talk page has noted how the one dependable historian who covers Domitian had some bad blood against him due to a family connection). So the very real possibility of some kind of madness may be interpreted. Given, I'm not the first to suggest that. But then, Wikipedia (like New York City, and more fortunately) is a work in progress. K. G. Griffiths 18:21, 29 October 2006 (UTC)