Talk:Egham

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[edit] Runnymede

I think it's probably better to separate Egham and Runnymede. I'm not sure of the status of Runnymede as a location, but I'm fairly certain that the entirety of what would be called 'Runnymede' (ie the meadows and flood plain) does not lie within Egham's boundaries. The Magna carta was actually signed (probably) on MC island, which I suspect is now technically in Wraysbury or Staines. If anyone has a more exact knowledge than me re the status and geographic relationship between Runnymede, Egham and Staines, then feel free to revert, with an explanation here. Cheers, Badgerpatrol 10:48, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Interesting point. The facts first. The only political boundaries today are county and borough bounderies, and perhaps voting wards. Runnymede (the meadow) is clearly within Surrey and within Runnymede (the borough). But Egham itself has no government -it is part of Runnymede. There is a voting ward that is known as "Egham central". So is Runnymede (the meadow) in the voting ward? I believe it is not in, since no one lives there. There is also the parish boundary which is not the same as the ward boundary - again since no one lives in the meadow, this is no help.

Is the Statue of Liberty in New York? I'd say so. So is Runnymede in Egham? I'd say yes. The edge is across the road (10 metres) from houses which ARE in Egham central - it is certainly not in a different town. More to the point, Egham Chamber of Commerce, among others, considers Runnymede to be in Egham. (Sources > opinion).

Your question as to whether the Magna Carta was really sealed in Runnymede or somewhere else is a question for the Magna Carta page. Briefy though, the island thing was invented only a few centuries ago according to the Egham historical society.

Separately from the Magna problem, this lack of agreed boundary of Egham makes this article tricky. Egham is not just Egham central voting ward.Obina 22:11, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

The Statue of Liberty IS in New York- but what about Ellis Island? As you say, it is not clear that Runnymede is actually in Egham. In reality, I suspect the meadows area straddles Egham/Old Windsor/Wraysbury. I don't know what ward or wards the area may lie in, but I'm fairly certain it will fall into one (or more). I suspect it doesn't matter if there are few or no voters- voting wards are (to the best of my limited knowledge) geographic, not demographic. Since we don't know, it's probably better to refer to it as a separate entity from Egham. As I hinted at above, I realise there is some ambiguity as to the exact location of the MC signing- but everyone knows it was signed at Runnymede, not Egham, my point being that Runnymede is a distinct location in the popular consciousness (and indeed among most historians etc). If a good source (ie the council) states unambiguously that Runnymede meadows are entirely within Egham, then that's that. In the absence of such a source, I think it's prudent to refer to them as separate, but overlapping, localities. I agree that the problem is that British towns and cities tend to have diffuse limits and it is not always clear where one place stops and another begins (London being the extreme example; ie is Staines in London? By some measures yes, by others no). Thanks for the response, Badgerpatrol 01:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Agree for now that Runnymede is next to Egham not in it. Agree the Egham C of C is biased. But it is not Wraysbury (that is other side of Thames) and is not old Windsor (that is Berkshire). Runnymede (meadow) is in Runnymede (borough). Per the Surrey cc website, it would be in the Englefield Green East voting ward today. (If any voters moved there I bet the boundary would move). But anyway I've not seen any sources saying Runnymede is in Engelfield Green. Englefield Green people live "up the hill" (local speak) and the flood plain is certainly not :) (the Surrey cc map site is helpful)

Staines in London? Next you'll wonder if Puerto Rico is in the US of A.Obina 17:29, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it is best to treat Runnymede and Egham as separate- BUT to clarify (there's always a but!)- the political boundaries are possibly abstract from the historical or geographic ones. As you say, it's clear that Englefield Green (the area at the top of the hill, essentially past the Dog's home and terminating at or just beyond Royal Holloway college) is NOT Runnymede. Equally, Magna Carta island (which is on the other side of the river- [1] ) IS, I suspect, a part of Runnymede (in the popular consciousness), but I imagine actually lies within the confines of Spelthorne politically and administratively. Political and council boundaries are plastic and ever changing- Runnymede (as the place where the Magna Carta was signed) is abstract from Runnymede (as per the current political reality). In essence- 'Runnymede' is the area of meadows (or what still exists of it) around the Thames between Staines and Windsor. Most, but not all of it, is in modern Egham (modern Egham does rather sound like a contradiction in terms!), but it is best to treat the two as separate. Badgerpatrol 00:26, 31 March 2006 (UTC)