Talk:Eiffel Tower

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I think it should say stories instead of storeys.

"One of the great Hollywood movie clichés is that the view from a Parisian window always includes the tower. In reality, since zoning restrictions limit the height of most buildings in Paris to a few storeys, only the very few taller buildings have a clear view of the tower." 70.110.81.3 04:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

American and British English differ in spelling, but I prefer British not because I'm British, but because storeys is less ambiguous than stories — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 20:25, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Aside from Superbfc's very valid point, Wiktionary's policy is to use the local variety of English in articles relating to UK/US/Canadian/etc subjects. This doesn't apply to French articles, of course, but as France is just across the English channel from the UK, might this mean that UK English is more appropriate? Alternatively, a neutral term could be used instead: perhaps "levels", as "storeys"/"stories" is usually used for the levels of buildings such as houses; the Eiffel tower is a construction, so does it really make sense to talk about "storeys" at all? — Paul G 14:59, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

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The "retreating" and general referred to in this article, could it be Dietrich_von_Choltitz, the Wehrmachtsbefehlshaber (military governor) of Paris who disobeyed Hitler's orders to burn the city and died peacefully in 1966? 62.163.167.174 11:31, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

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the eiffel tower was constructed in 1889

An event in this article is a March 31 selected anniversary (may be in HTML comment)

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As far as I know, the Eiffel Tower is not made of steel, but of puddled iron. David.Monniaux 13:10, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

You're correct, according to [1] --wwoods 22:13, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

What is "puddled iron"??--Srleffler 04:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

See puddle iron. Puddle iron is the result of a special baking technique relying on swirling during the liquid phase to prevent carbon and the impurities in the metal from associating.[2] See the FAQ section of this reference.Tvbanfield 17:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)TVBanfield

Do we need to caption photos with image credits, or notes like "public domain photograph"? All of the info about an image should be stored in its Wiki page (which you get to by clicking on it.) Except where the photographer asks for specific on-page photo credits, can we save the captions for more useful info (or just get rid of them?) Dachshund

Is this really the most visited monument? Does it really beat the Ka'bah in Mecca?

Contents 1 Pronunciation 2 pictures from the tower 3 Construction image 4 discrepancies 5 Change in height of Eiffel Tower due to climate 6 Russian Eiffel Tower =) 7 The shape 7.1 Answer to the shape 8 Further remarkable lattice towers 9 2005 Fireworks music? 10 What use does the tower serve? 11 New Lights at Night 12 Hollywood 13 Picture of the tower and the fountain 14 hey-fell? 15 Team America film 16 Image positions 17 Artist's oppositions to the tower 18 Mistake? 19 Number of steps during WWII? 20 Height of tower in "stories" 21 Sexy Eiffel Tower 22 Contradictions 23 Lepaute Tower? 24 Images 25 Uh...this is wrong...and it annoys me. 26 Lighting Copyright Year? 27 Dimensions 28 == Answer == 29 External links 30 Request page protection? 31 Please add the link to Ido Wikipedia

[edit] Pronunciation

The name Eiffel is pronounced "eye-full" in English, in French EfEl in X-SAMPA, but English speakers often adopt a German-sounding pronunciation ajf@l.

I'm not a big X-SAMPA fan, but isn't "eye-full" pronounced ajf@l?

66.32.95.94 03:22, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Yea your right. It's pronounced eye-fell

I guess it's similar to the Eifel mountains in Germany, and the name does appear German (cf. Baron Haussmann, another Frenchman with a German name) so it's just become stuck that way. Anyone attempting to pronounce words with authentic pronunciation in English risks being—

1. not understood
2. labelled pretentious

The IPA transcription is the correct one for French (done by me). There was an 'english' one too but it's since been removed.

— superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 10:09, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

A couple of points:

• /"aIf@l/ ("eye-fuhl"), not /"ajf@l/ ("ah'y-fuhl")
• French uses the tonic accent [3] rather than the stress used in English. The stress marks in the pronunciation should not be used in French, and so I have removed them. — Paul G 15:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] pictures from the tower

Arpingstone would like to apologise to Elliot whose two photos of the view from the Tower I have removed. Firstly, their quality was low and, secondly, they were not of the Tower! The article is titled Eiffel Tower but the photos were of Paris. Best to put them on the Paris page although I have much better pics of Paris so can we let them be deleted? Sorry to do this, I hope you understand why I did it -- Arpingstone 23:06 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)

I rather enjoyed the view from the Eiffel Tower and hope the pics are re-added. Susan Mason

Same here. Many people go all the way up to the top of the tower to see exactly the views which these pictures were showing. I would love to see them, or similar ones back. Maybe they could be of smaller size than they originally were. olivier 00:36 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Neither of you has answered my two reasons for deleting i.e. the quality was too poor for a serious site and they were not illustrating the subject of the article (which is the Eiffel Tower, not Paris). It is best, when replying to someone, to answer their points. However, I am in a minority, so in an hour or so I'll replace them with better views from the tower. Thanks for your comments -- Arpingstone 08:32 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Here's my first replacement pic, I think it's a bit better than Elliotts, I hope you agree. It's annoying to compress my pic so much to keep it to 25K (it loses heaps of quality). Now you can properly see the huge buildings of the Ecole Militaire at the end of the Champ de Mars (I love Paris!)

View from the Tower down the Champs de Mars, with the Montparnasse Tower in the distance.

Cheers! -- Arpingstone 09:39 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Just had a thought. Can anyone tell me how the two views from the Tower (on the Eiffel Tower page) look on an 800 by 600 screen? It could be a mess. I can't change my screen because my icons get put into a heap in the corner of the screen if I change resolution, and don't go back when I revert to the 1024 by 768 I normally use. -- Arpingstone 18:00 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

the picture on the left is very nice. Susan Mason

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"In reality, one can be a few hundred meters away from the tower and unable to see it." Yes: one could be right next to any tower and looking in the wrong direction. Does this need to be said?

-- Robert Israel

• The idea is that the streets around the tower are so narrow that even if you're looking in the *correct* direction, you can be unable to see it. With many other towers, they're much more visible. Krupo 23:47, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Construction image

The German WP has a great picture of the construction site. Check this out: de:Bild:Eiffelturm_im_Bau.jpg Rl

• That is an excellent photo, and as it appears to be tagged as public domain I see no problems with us using it in this article. Thryduulf 21:59, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] discrepancies

there are 2 striking discrepancies between this article and that one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Tower namely - the height of the Eiffel Tower (the Paris one) and the weight of it. Anyone knows which article is correct? i.e. which one should be fixed?

• weight: The Eiffel Tower's official site (English version) gives two weights, one for the "metal structure" (7,300 tons) and the other a total weight (10,100 tons) (presumably including lifts, the TV antenna, and other non structural fittings). The former was quoted on this article, the latter on the Tokyo Tower article. I've fixed this by quoting both. The 7000 ton figure comes from the Offical site of the Tokyo Tower [4] - This seems likely to be rounding of the lower figure above.
• height: The Tokyo Tower article was wrong - the difference is 9 metres (inlcluding TV antenna on Eiffel Tower) or 33 metres (excluding said antenna). I have changed both articles to reflect this. I suspect the 13 metre figure comes from the offical site of the Tokyo Tower, which quotes the height of the Eiffel Tower as 320 metres - this looks like a rounding of the 324 metre height). I have left the scale (1.04:1) as it is, I can't find a source for this on either page and my maths is vastly inadequate for the task of working it out. Thryduulf 22:49, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Change in height of Eiffel Tower due to climate

I'm not sure, but I believe somewhere I read that the Eiffel Tower shrinks 6 inches in the winter and grows back 6 inches when the weather grows warmer. If I can find a (reliable) source (or two), I might remember to put that here later (when I have more time). However, would this statement be in any way relevant or important to the article, or would it just be extra fluff? ~Michael Chang

In fact, the tower also inclines itself slightly during the day, because the Sun heats one or another of its faces. I know people who have inclinometers up there, I may ask some questions. David.Monniaux 11:26, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Russian Eiffel Tower =)

Added info about a copy of Eiffel Tower in Russia. The proof:the effel tower is made of 18,038 pieces of pulled iron.

http://uralpress.ru/img/72352_b_22085.jpg http://www.cheltv.ru/rnews.html?id=21447&cid=7 http://www.sotaweek.ru/news/data/21030592.htm http://www.google.com/search?q=%D1%8D%D0%B9%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0%20%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%BD%D1%8F%20%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8F%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9%20%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8&sourceid=firefox

[edit] The shape

Why was the distictive shape selected by Gustave Eiffel for the tower?

I've seen a few different explanations including:

• The leg area decreases from bottom to top, to provide uniform stress (probably wrong)
• The shape is designed so that the wind torque balances with the torque generated by the self weight (published in a journal, by a physicist)
• The shape is an exponential curve, derived from making the effective wind load direction parallel to the face and resulting in no/less need for shear bracing (or something like that, I can't remeber exaclty).

--Commander Keane 14:34, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Answer to the shape

The best article I have found explains that the weight-counterbalancing equation proposed by Christophle Chouard[5] would result in a parabola, which would not be correct, but that the more recent Pinelis-Weidman theory (based on a 1885 paper by Gustave Eiffel to the French Civil Engineering Society) proves that Eiffel planned to counterbalance wind pressure with tension between the construction elements of the tower. With that theory, they derrived two nonlinear integral-differential equations that produce the true shape of the Eiffel Tower. That shape is exponential.[6]

At the time the tower was built, Eiffel was severly criticised for trying to create something artistic without regard to engineering. However, Eiffel and his engineers were bridge builders who understood the importance of wind forces. If his enterprise was going to build the tallest structure in the world, he was going to be sure it would withstand the wind. Eiffel responded to this criticism in an interview in the newspaper Le Temps, 14 February, 1887 by saying:[7]

Now to what phenomenon did I have to give primary concern in designing the Tower? It was wind resistance. Well then! I hold that the curvature of the monument's four outer edges, which is as mathematical calculation dictated it should be (...) will give a great impression of strength and beauty, for it will reveal to the eyes of the observer the boldness of the design as a whole.

So, now we know that the shape of the tower is determined solely by the wind factor. It is simple engineering and simply elegant artistically.Tvbanfield 18:45, 1 March 2007 (UTC)TVBanfield

[edit] Further remarkable lattice towers

This list is getting very long, would anyone have any objections if I split it off into a separate article list of notable lattice towers or somesuch? Thryduulf 16:30, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Great idea, it would be much appreciated. --Commander Keane 08:23, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thirded. --Crazeman 19:17, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 2005 Fireworks music?

Does anybody have a list of the songs used in the 2005 Bastille Day fireworks show? I know it started with a big classical number, the 3rd song was "Robot Rock" by Daft Punk, & another was "The Girl from Ipanema".Ianthegecko 03:11, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Would these songs be played in the month July? Maybe someone from the French Wikipedia can help. Ariele 00:28, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What use does the tower serve?

Hello, I read this article hoping to find info on the uses of the tower, but aside from a single sentence about it's use for communications, I did not find anything.

I just want to propose that such a section be added. Did the tower have any use the year it was built? What about today, is it still useful for communications, and if so, how exactly is that so?

Just some proposals! I wouldnt know how to write these personally.

• Look at the first couple sentences in "Background".Ianthegecko 02:06, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New Lights at Night

Wow!!!!! And what it treat it was!! All Sparkly!!![8] Very nice and romantic! Try the view from a river cruise. Wasn't able to take any photos. Ariele 00:39, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hollywood

Not 1 to def Hollywood, but, isn't using the Tower a simple shorthand for "Paris", since everybody knows it? Rather than always having somebody say, "Welcome to Paris", which would get really tedious... Trekphiler 17:10, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Picture of the tower and the fountain

Here is my picture of the tower. I don't want to put it on page by myself, so if you think it is good enought, you can put it on the page. Stijak 07:29, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

This is a nice photo, and shows a view not seen in any of the other photos on the page. I added it to a section near the end that didn't already have a picture.--Srleffler 04:17, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I've resized the image - editors can click on it for a larger version. It was taking up a bit more than its fair share of space on the talk page. –M^T 15:41, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hey-fell?

Who actually says this? Someone please change it to eye-full or i-full.

Well, that would be how one would phonetically spell how the name is pronounced in French (provided one mutes the "h" in "hey"). Ramdrake 16:45, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Team America film

In Team America World Police the Eiffel Tower falls on the Louvre, not the Arc d' Triomphe.

No, it falls on the Arc de Triomphe - that, strangely, is on the same side of the river as the tower : ) THEPROMENADER 23:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

...Here. Enjoy! -- THEPROMENADER 02:05, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image positions

I was annoyed by the way that the images were positioned, forcing the reader to weave amongst them, so I've lined them up along the right side. I realize that this just isn't as exciting as having the images come at you from all sides, and that it's just not the way articles do it, but do hope that it'll stay. To the right is what a particularily offensive section looked like under a width of 800px. I've tried my edits out under several resolutions, and they don't seem to mess up. If other editors are unsatisfied, the ideal solution may be to create a section titled "images of the tower" - or, of course, to remove of some of the images. –M^T 15:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Artist's oppositions to the tower

In the french wiki page for the eiffel tower there is a lot of information on artists that did not like the tower whcih is quite interesting. Let me know what you think.

See "The answer to the shape" above, in this Discussion section. Tvbanfield 18:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)TVbanfield

[edit] Mistake?

"...It is the highest structure by far in Paris; the second-highest structure in Paris..." is this a mistake or am I just missing something? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.158.33.254 (talk • contribs).

You were missing something, specifically the semicolon which marked the start of a new clause about the second-highest structure. However, I've edited this for greater clarity. — Johan the Ghost _seance 14:16, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm still very confused by this part of the article, could you explain? SalvadorRodriguez 16:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Number of steps during WWII?

The article states: "...the lift cables were cut by the French so that Hitler would have to climb the 1,665 steps to the summit."

but at the beginning of the article, the number of steps is stated to be: "...at the time of construction in 1889, there were 1710 steps to the summit platform at 300.65 m; after renovation in the early 1980s, there were 1920 steps; and today there are 1665 steps."

Seems like a discrepancy. One could simply say "...so that Hitler would have to climb the steps to the top" rather than adding the unnecessary step count.

[edit] Height of tower in "stories"

A little earlier today I changed the height of the tower + antenna from 108 to 81 "stories", because this is consistent with the given heights (with and without the antenna) in meters. I am new to Wikipedia, and I know nothing about the Eiffel Tower -- I was just making the math right. But as far as I know though there is no official definition of a "story", so should the term even be used here at all? If I were more comfortable using Wikipedia I might remove it entirely.

Best put the height in metres (as it is in Europe) with its equivilent in feet. Yes, very few know exactly the height of a "story", so multiples of this measure won't help much to clarify things. Go ahead and change it! THEPROMENADER 09:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Isn't a story something which has a beginning, a middle and and end, and is usually found in a book? I wonder if regular stories are the unit used, or tall stories? :P — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 16:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sexy Eiffel Tower

This is fun! First I get to change the height of the Eiffel Tower, and now I'm an expert on obscure pop music!

I remember hearing this song over and over when it came out, and being totally baffled by it, so it's cool that I can do something with that memory. I'm still baffled by the song, since there seems to be remarkable little about it on the Web -- in particular no lyrics. But here are a few links to at least prove that I am not making it up:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9503E0D91638F936A15752C1A967948260

http://www.vh1.com/artists/news/150193/04031998/bow_wow_wow.jhtml

and of course Bow Wow Wow.

[edit] Contradictions

The first paragraph in the Statistics section reads:

The tower is the second-highest structure in France, after the 350-m Allouis longwave transmitter, built in 1939. The Eiffel tower is the highest structure in Paris. The second-highest structure in Paris is the Tour Montparnasse (Montparnasse Tower), at 209 m.

I don't know enough about the subject to correct this, but I'm guessing that the intent here was to say that the Eiffel tower is the second highest structure overall, but that it is the tallest structure people can actually climb (the Allouis longwave transmitter is a mast).

--CairoTasogare 03:26, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't see a contradiction.

--Gareth Cash 25 August 2006

The Allouis longwave transmitter is simply not located in Paris. It is actually located in Allouis in the département of the Cher. Hence, the tallest structure in Paris is indeed the Eiffel tower.

--Metropolitan 03:14 26 August 2006

[edit] Lepaute Tower?

According to some sources it was a guy called Henry Lepaute (might also be Henri Le Paute) who designed the actual tower. He apparently worked for the Gustave Eiffels engineering bureau. Lepaute is mostly known for designing lighthouses and he might have had his own company for this as well. One of the lighthouses he designed can be found on Valsörarna in the archipelago between Finland and Sweden. The lighthouse (built in 1886) bears a likeness to the Eiffel Tower (built in 1889). Does anyone have more info on this? See the lighthouse here: http://www.korsholmsskargard.fi/index.php?tocID=478&sprak=eng Ostrobothnian 12:21, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Too many images. Text becomes hard to follow.

Why is there no good night picture (will have to be fair use as article explains).

--Cat out 20:54, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

What's the square footage?

[edit] Uh...this is wrong...and it annoys me.

This is a note to the Wikipedia Staff and anyone who would like to use this page for referencing. The text and facts on this page have been altered. The following text is factually INCORRECT:

"In 1902, it was struck by lightning, which caused builders to reconstruct 300 feet of the top later in 1902-3. The lights illuminating the tower also had to be replaced, due to short-circuiting."

The Eiffel Tower [Paris, France] was indeed struck by lightening, but there are no accounts of it being reconstructed in 1902-1903. The lights in the tower also DID NOT have to be replaced due to 'short circuiting'.

I was going to find out what happened when the tower did get struck, and when I find out, I'll post the facts =) — Indigoink (talk • contribs) 2006-11-26T02:20:43

[edit] Lighting Copyright Year?

"Images of the tower have long been in the public domain; however, in 2003 SNTE installed a new lighting display on the tower. The effect was to put any night-time image of the tower and its lighting display under copyright. As a result, it was no longer legal to publish contemporary photographs of the tower at night without permission in some countries."

I visited the tower in 2002 and at that time it was claimed that the night lighting of the tower was copyrighted. The quote above on the indicates that this copyright started in 2003, but my experience says this was earlier.--Johnm4 03:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I would argue that the above statement is wrong. See US Copyright Office FAQ which states: "Copyright law protects the original photograph, not the subject of the photograph." Ian¹³/t 19:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I would like to know more about the validity of that SNTE claim (on Wiki), and even in general (the law seems to be almost overturned at every opposition here (cour de cassation rulings)). I have a pic I would have liked to to upload here, but it has been removed from wiki and commons altogether "because" of the above claim. I would say that this was a good dose of copyright paranoia, but until I know for sure no-one can say either way. I have done the rounds (there is a lawyer here, but I have recieved no reply), but perhaps it is time to do the same again. If anyone here has any information, it would be helpful. THEPROMENADER 00:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't speak to the validity of the claim (although I personally don't think it should be valid). US Copyright likely differs from the French law, so an argument about the validity should probably reference a French law or ruling. My original purpose was to challenge the date that the copyright claim was established. The SNTE website mentions the 2003 year, but as I said, my personal experience was that the claim to the copyright existed earlier (in my 2002 visit). --Johnm4 21:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I sort of hijacked your question to get an answer to my own : ) Thanks for your input though. I'm of the same advice (about the French law), but if it can't stick in the US, I don't think it should apply here either. Copyright paranoia abounds in some Wiki corners... THEPROMENADER 21:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dimensions

Am I overlooking something? The only dimension I can find is the tower height. How about the size of the base? Jm546 16:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] == Answer ==

The base consists of the four pillar mounts that form a square 125 by 125 meters at ground level. [9] Look in the FAQ section of this reference site. Tvbanfield 16:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)tvbanfield

[edit] External links

I recently went through the external links in this article removing links to sites which were "tourist traps" - who thinks Template:NoMoreLinks would be a good idea? There's a steady flow of link spammers on this article, who are probably good faith but just unhelpful. — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 16:47, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request page protection?

I think this page should be protected or semi-protected. There's a lot of vandalism, notwithstanding the recent blitz in the last couple of days. I've had this page in my watch list for ages, and it's by far the most vandalised. Anyone else agree? — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 20:33, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

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I think it should say Named after its desisner and engineer, .......

[edit] Please add the link to Ido Wikipedia

io:Eiffel Turmo - Thank you, io:User:Joao Xavier 01:11, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Done

— superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 03:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)