Talk:El Yunque (organization)

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The organization exitance is not well documented at all, just one trustworthy source : "Alvaro Delgados Book"

So you can't say it actually exists, and actually in the spanish wikipedia they actually say it's "supposed to be", not a "it is"

If you read the reference link in the article, pointing to an article in El Universal, that article contains statements from Manuel Espino that he is not himself a member of the organization, but that "Sé que la presencia en esta organización de algunos amigos míos (omite dar nombres), de los que por cierto me siento muy orgulloso, hizo que muchos me pusieran esta etiqueta, sin embargo no es verdad, no formo parte de El Yunque", in other words, he says he's not a member himself, but that some friends of his that he won't name, but that he's very proud of, are members, and that's why many people think that he's a member himself. This is the president of the PAN saying implicitly that the organization exists, and that he has friends that are members, and that he's very proud of them, implicitly saying that he approves of the organization. So, the organization is documented not just by critics (Alvaro Delgado), but also by comments from people who are positive to it, and claim to personally know members, and that should be considered good sources, since they are high-ranking right wing politicians in Mexico. I will revert this back now.

Also, please sign your comments. JZ

Of course, I also agree there is enough evidence to say that the organization exist. I would, however, object on how the supposed purpose of the organization is presented. We only have one source, and it is a critical source at that, on the organization's motives. In any case, how can you prove that El Yunque was paramilitary in nature? How can you prove that its purpose is fascism? How can you prove that members of El Yunque influence Vicente Fox's cabinet? Is it not possible that it may merely be a secret elite organization for commercial trading, or other religious purpose? We really have no source of this, and therefore believe we should be very careful in not presenting here as fact what are merely speculations. Hari Seldon 14:54, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

It isn't really a matter or proving, but rather document what other sources have said about the organization. So far most of the sources are critical of it (including some recent articles in La Jornada) and given the nature of the article it will be hard to find sources that give a different viewpoint. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 17:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed some of the names mentioned in the previous version of the article because there was no source for them nor an explanation of the kind of involvement of the persons mentioned. I assume the primary source was Álvaro Delgado's book. Perhaps a section about the book would be a better place for detailed info about El Yunque, specially highly specific details like their suppossed opposition to Masons and Jews, which, again, I assume come from Delgado's book. This will make quotation easier and will help in case of conflicting opinions by another journalist. Asereje 07:24, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

I think this article is highly biased.

Even though the existence of this organization is debatable, and sometimes tacitly accepted; the article strongly implies a bieased POV, attributing even crimes performed by this supposed organization..

You bunch of mochos, you digust me.

- yeah, now that's constructive discussion. 201.143.57.220 19:08, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AMLO

Es evidente que quien firma como AMLO no tiene nada que ver con AMLO, y que es un miembro de la derecha que defiende y promueve a esta "supuesta" organización, que hace mucho ruido para ser una supuesta organización, ya me imagino a un miembro de la izquierda diciendo "bunch of mochos", sencillamente no tiene sentido, aquellos a quienes se les refiere como mochos*, son precisamente los que defienden y promueven a la "derecha".

• se llama "mocho" a una persona que usa eufemismos, que evita hablar de sexo, que no dice "groserías" (frente a los vecinos), que jamás en su vida usaría un preservativo, que no mira documentales de la evolución.... pero, que suele ser un esposo golpeador, que maltrata a sus hijos y que abusa sexualmente de su esposa; no tiene sentido que alguien que critica a la izquierda los llame "mochos", la izquierda es todo lo contrario a ello, no tiene sentido.

Incubo

[edit] neutrality

aside from being poorly written, the third paragraph of this article features condenatory (condemnatory ) phrases, of ironic nature when it refers to the yunque "being as evil as the boogeyman". It would greatly help its informative qualities if that part was left out or edited.