Talk:Emmanuel Goldstein

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Goldstein is only referred to in the novel, so I'm not sure if "main character" is an appropriate way of describing him. Also, isn't there some suggestion that Goldstein never existed and was just an invention of the party? I haven't read 1984 for a few years and I don't own a copy so I'd rather not change the article.

Yep, I'll change some of the stuff in the article to reflect this. Dysprosia 11:05, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Contents 1 Leon Trotsky 2 Cite for Emma Goldman? 3 Goldstein as a variation of the Devil 4 Request for References 5 Antisemitism?

[edit] Leon Trotsky

Why are a couple of people not allowing this section to stand? The comparisons between Trotsky and Goldstein are obvious, as are the comparisons between the Soviet state and the three statesof 1984. -Joseph (Talk) 14:21, 2004 Oct 4 (UTC)

Even if it were right to treat 1984 as a historical novel this would be far too simplistic a view. There are undoubtedly parallels with Trotsky in Goldstein but this is far from being his essence - he is the bogeyman that all corrupt regimes rely on.

Be sure to sign your statements. Anyhow, obviously you are correct. But that doesn't make the comparison any less valid. -Joseph (Talk) 15:43, 2004 Oct 5 (UTC)

As I just read, Trotsky was born "Lev Davidovich Bronstein" - so, isn't the name "Goldstein" just another allusion to Trotsky? --84.167.209.74 20:50, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

'1984' should be read in conjunction with 'Animal Farm' and 'Homage to Catalonia'. In 'Animal Farm', Snowball, the opponent of Napoleon is quite obviously Trotsky. The pun in Napoleon's name is that Stalin was viewed by Trotsky as a 'Buonapartist'. 'Homage to Catalonia' is an account of Orwell's adventures in Spain, including his time in the P.O.U.M. militia. One of the leaders of P.O.U.M. was Andres Nin, who was one of Trotsky's secretaries. Orwell was radicalised by Spain, and also made into a bitter opponent of both Fascism and Stalinism. 220.247.247.101 16:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

== Osama Bin Laden ==

I think that a more current parallel example of a bogeyman that all corrupt regimes rely on might be Osama Bins Laden.

[edit] Cite for Emma Goldman?

"Emma Goldman, an anarcho-socialist whom Orwell greatly admired." - I don't recall Orwell mentioning Goldman. Can anybody give a cite on this? - 31 december 2005

When I do a google search it seems more like George Orwell influenced Emma Goldman than the other way around. Though I did notice that Goldman was very much a revolutionary. --Acebrock 18:55, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm still confused. Emma Goldman (1869-1940). George Orwell (1903-1950). Goldman was an activist since at least the early 1890's. Orwell didn't begin to write about political topics until the early 1930's. What influence of Orwell on Goldman are we talking about? - 200.141.119.254 05:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

eh...redoing the search with slightly different seach terms (no quotes) reverses my past statement. I did find an enlightening conversation (though someone obviously forgot his meds) at this website(1). By the way this interview (if you want to call it that) is really creepy.

[edit] Goldstein as a variation of the Devil

Should there be some mention of the connection between Goldstein and and the biblical Devil? The symbolism seems quite obvious, such as the idea of the Brotherhood (fallen angels) revolting against the Party (God) and being led by one individual (Satan) whom is the regarded as root of all evil and the people are encouraged to hate. Although I will admit the symbolism is much more superficial than other examples of symbols in 1984, and his character is likely has more meaning to it than a simple scapegoat, it would seem as though the connection is quite deliberate on Orwell's part and should be mentioned. 66.24.229.233 23:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

There's a policy that says you can't put 'original research' in Wikipedia articles; you have to find a 'reliable source' that makes that point, and also put a link to that. --Apeloverage 14:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for References

I've put a box in the section relating to the real-life basis of the character.

I've also removed the idea that he's the Nationalist Party of China, because I put a request a while ago for a source, and in the absence of one this seems to be someone's original idea. --Apeloverage 14:16, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Antisemitism?

His Jewish name and the "Two Minutes Hate" looks like an obvious reference to the Nazists' use of antisemitism and hate in their propaganda. But I have unfortunately no references to quote. Apus 09:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)