Talk:Exclamation mark
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Former discussion from Talk:Exclamation mark (punctuation) moved to Talk:Exclamation mark/From Talk:Exclamation mark (punctuation) -- Timwi 00:33 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Removed from article:
The Commonwealth Hackish, "pling", is common among Acorn Archimedes owners. Bang is more common in the USA.
The occasional CMU usage, "shriek", is also used by APL fans and mathematicians, especially category theorists.
Exclamation mark is used in C and other programming languages as the logical negation operation (NOT).
The character "!" has ASCII code 33.
- Common names : bang; pling; excl (/eks'kl/); shriek; ITU-T
- exclamation mark.
- Rare names : factorial; exclam; smash; cuss; boing; yell; wow; hey; wham; eureka; soldier; INTERCAL
- spark-spot; ball bat.
This article (or an earlier version of it) contains material from FOLDOC, used with permission. Update as necessary.
Is any of this really useful or necessary?
- Other punctuation pages have instancers of programming usage, usually stating what the mark is used for. I would think the mathematical symbol for factorial worth mentioning.
- Except for "bang", which is really pretty common and which also forms part of the name of the Interrobang (combination of question mark and exclamation mark), the other amusing slang synonyms really don't add much. We do have "fingernails" under for parenthesis under bracket (punctuation), however, but it's part of a general discussion of the names of the brackets. Ortolan88
[edit] Exclamation MARK or exclamation POINT?
I (born in USA 1960) was taught to call it an exclamation mark, but it seems that everyone else calls it an exclamation "point." (It's a relief to find it called "mark" here.) To those who persist in using "point" -- You would never call a question mark a question POINT, would you? With both the exclamation and question mark, the point is merely the end of the mark. Case closed!
- In Australia it's called an "exclamation mark". Jimp 00:27, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
- Another case of words being different in American English and British English, the alternative name should be mentioned, but consitancy of use should be preserved as much as possible. Emmett5 18:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- I (an American) always call it an "exclamation point". No, it doesn't make sense. But it doesn't have to make sense. It's just what (some) people have come to say. - furrykef (Talk at me) 16:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Question marks with exclamations
What's considered more proper out of these ways to end a sentence? "What?!" or "What!?"
- See interrobang. Shimgray | talk | 17:07, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Ending sentences?
Exclamation mark... it doesn't always end a sentence, especially in older forms of English (and possibly other languages) than are mostly used today. For instance (off the top of my head): "They looked up and lo! the sun shone brightly." Obviously not a great example, and I've not read any holy texts in a long time, but I'm sure that these marks were once used just as mid-sentence exclamations, even if I'm the only person around who uses them that way still.
Can anyone support this, or refute it?
- Also, in at least one language today where ‘¿’ and ‘¡’ is used I have seen something like “¡Yes!, of course.” I don’t remember what that language was, though. Rafał Pocztarski 23:26, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
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- That happens often in Spanish. For example, a sentence like "But what's happened?" could be written "¿Pero qué ha pasado?", but "Pero, ¿qué ha pasado?" would be regarded as more precise.
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- Yes, you use them for the interrogative or exclaimatory clause, not sentence.
See Abiezer Coppe's a Fiery Flying Roll from 1649: "And now (my dearest ones!) every one under the Sun..."
[edit] Computer warning image
The computer warning image is pretty lame. A little too generic, don't you think? I'd replace it with a more exemplary sample but I'd first like to clear up whether an exclamation mark is a Win32-specific warning icon. The only other desktop GUIs I'm familiar with are a variety of X Window System widgets and atrocities. Any Mac people care to chime in? mordemur 13:37, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Multiple exclamation marks!!!
This article should mention the temptation to use multiple exclamation marks to emphasise the importance of a sentence!!! But it should also mention that this practice is discouraged in formal or professional writing!!!!!! Perhaps it should also include a reference to the "!!!!1111!!!oneoneone" phenomenon in leet!!!!!!!!!
However, there's a brand of wine whose official name is Est! Est!! Est!!!. That's certainly a creative use of typography. — JIP | Talk 1 July 2005 11:53 (UTC)
For fun, you could also refer to Terry Pratchett here, a well known fantasy writer who really hates the use of multiple exclamation marks, and has some funny quotes about them in his books:
"'And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head.'" (in Maskerade)
"'Multiple exclamation marks,' he went on, shaking his head, 'are a sure sign of a diseased mind.'" (in Eric)
"Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind." (Terry Pratchett in "Reaper Man")
I also recall a line from Joseph Heller's Catch 22 that went like this:
Yossarian!!!(?)!
I am also eager to find out, if this occurs in Spanish language as well. For example, is the following sentence correct? ¡¿¿¡¿Qué?!??!
--195.113.25.252 15:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
I remember one, bu can't find who said it, or the exact wording.
"Don't use exclamation marks. Exclamation marks are like laughing at your own jokes"
[edit] Exclamation mark in Germanic languages
I've been seeing the exclamation mark used in places one wouldn't normally expect in German, Swedish and the like - example, the first line of the Lord's Prayer in Swedish, "Fader vår som är i himmelen!" or the first line of Silent Night in German, "Stille Nacht, Heilige Nacht!" Anyone know what the significance of this is? Or am I just being a moron? Idekii 03:02, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
- Well, it's because they are exclamations! As opposed to "proper" full sentences of the sort this one isn't. In English we have perhaps tended to use the exclamation mark less nowadays for its original purpose (as opposed to using it to mark an emotion like surprise, anger or humour, as I did above), but some languages are more conservative about these things. Flapdragon 03:10, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Fandom
Maybe this is just a question to Lubaf, but why did my edit for the fandom section get reverted? Granted, it's speculation, but it's only as speculative as the theory about the TMNT figurines, and it's quite a bit more fleshed out. To me, if I had to decide, I'd choose the one that was removed. Occam's Razor and all that, plus it seems more plausible linguistically.
But that's not the point--both theories could have been left up, since they're both out there. I was willing to leave both up, and honestly I find the TMNT idea interesting enough. Frankly, all that either theory has going for it (objectively speaking) is discussions on internet message boards. If one's going to go up, so should the other, since the sources for them are basically the same. Since both sides of the debate exist, it's in Wikipedia's interest to present them both, right?
- It didn't have a link, is the thing. While the older version is (still) in need of cleanup, it has a cite in the comments. Can you provide an outside cite of any sort for your theory? Thanks, Luc "Somethingorother" French 05:24, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
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- A link it has, sure. But the content of that link is merely "I think I heard this on some other website once". It just seems kind of arbitrary, you know? The link doesn't validate it at all. Who's to say that anyone in the link cited for the existence of the TMNT theory other than the person who said it actually believes that? I could just as well say "I heard my aunt say once that her friend Mildred thinks XYZ" as evidence of the existence of XYZ. It's just not very satisfying. If that's the only 'source' available, why give a source at all? Takehome message: Wikipedia should be verifiable, but that's not the same as "It's valid iff it has a URL."
[edit] Computer Usage
If anyone is interested...
In the George III operating system running on ICl 1900 series in the early 1970s, ! was avaialble as the name of a file that was not entered into any folder, it would be deleted as soon as you logged out.
[edit] Moving groups
I'm going to move the groups that are all basically "uses in different fields" to one section (and make them subsections) if everyone's all right with that. In other words, the sections from "Warning" to "Chess" will each get an extra "=" on the sides. Um, the countdown is... three days. I'm changing it on Friday Morning if no one objects here or at my talkpage. --Lenoxus 20:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Er, I take that back. There's a lot more mess here than I noticed the first time around, especially the "Natural languages" section, which seems to be a bit of a ramble -- interesting and important facts, but rambling nonetheless. I'll do some serious thinking about this and turn here if I have any "non-minor" ideas. --Lenoxus 01:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- Aaannd... it seems to have been done anyway. I take to credit. --Lenoxus 19:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] or shriek or dog's cock
Is there a source for this? KillerChihuahua?!? 21:33, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
- Dog's Cock: "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss, section on the exclamation mark. Also http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dog's%20cock
- "Shriek" is in Henry Alford's A Plea for the Queen's English (1863); it was still a pretty unusual typographical symbol at the time of writing, and he ran through a couple of alternate names for it. I forget the others, though Shimgray | talk | 14:24, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Aha - here's a copy I made of the passage.
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- 128. While I am upon stops, a word is necessary concerning notes of admiration. A note of admiration consists, as we know, of a point with an upright line suspended over it, strongly suggestive of a gentleman jumping off the ground with amazement. These shrieks, as they have been called, are scattered up and down the page by compositors without mercy. If one has written the words "O sir," as they ought to be written, and are written in Genesis xliii. 20, viz., with the plain capital "O" and no stop, and then a comma after "Sir," our friend the compositor is sure to write "Oh" with a shriek (!) and to put another shriek after "Sir." Use, in writing, as few as possible of these nuisances. They always make the sense weaker, where you can possibly do without them. The only case I know of where they are really necessary, is where the language is pure exclamation, as in "How beautiful is night!" or "O that I might find him!"
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- Note that he doesn't use "exclamation mark". The OED cites "A note of Exclamation or Admiration, thus noted!" (1657) and "Exclamation..a note by which a pathetical sentence is marked thus!" (Dr. Johnson, 1755). "Exclamation point" or "exclamation" seems to be the normal term from then, with "exclamation mark" only really appearing in the c20th. The first OED cite for "shriek" is the one quoted above, and it appears into the 1970s. Shimgray | talk | 14:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Alternative origin
The main page refers to 'io' as possible origin. Any credence in the alternative that it is derived from 'Lo' - an expression of surprise?
It's not "Lo," that should be (lowercase) Greek ιω meaning "io." --72.195.145.248 16:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Rumored origin of using "bang" for the exclamation mark
I remember seeing references that the origin of the using the word "bang" for the exclamation point came from typesetting (I believe the early monotype machines where the individual letters were punched out of cold strips of metal (see the first part of the history in Monotype machine). Supposedly the sound made by the "!" character was a bang.
Does anyone have any verification to this origin?
CheyenneWills 15:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Other uses of ! in advertising, marketing
I added a reference to Panic! at the Disco in the section talking about advertising. I figured since Yahoo! and the musicals were there, it might be a good addition to note. 35.11.147.121 16:57, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Invalid link in the German section (2.5)
I'd edit it myself, but I don't have the authority.
"At the end of an imperative sentence: Ruf mich morgen an! (English: "Call me tomorrow.")"
The link to the 'imperative mood' ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_mood#Imperative_mood") is invalid, and should be replaced by: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_mood#Imperative". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bowser128 (talk • contribs) 15:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Comic books
- Some comic books, especially superhero comics of the mid-20th century, routinely use the exclamation mark instead of the period, as periods tended to disappear due to cheap printing processes. As printing improved, this technique fell out of favor, but is still sometimes used to invoke a retro feel.
This explanation feels a little dubious to me. I think if the problem were that periods tended to disappear, the letterer would simply draw slightly larger periods. And why would they disappear, anyway, even on a cheap press? I could be wrong, but at the least a source for these statements would be good. Myself, I would guess that exclamation points were used so much simply as a part of the whole hyperbole that always was a big part of superhero comics. Just as superheroes have exaggerated muscles and exaggerated poses, and they get involved in exaggerated plotlines, so they speak in an exaggerated fashion. (I myself used exclamation points in this fashion when I was a child.) In time, this started to look cheesy, so they did it less often. The extra legibility of an exclamation point might be a factor, but I'm not sure it'd be the primary one. - furrykef (Talk at me) 16:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] British/American
I have lived in the UK all my life and I have never heard it called an 'exclamation point,' except in products that have been imported from the USA. 'Exclamation mark' is definitely the most common term in England. Are you sure the article has it the right way around? RobbieG 21:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's the wrong way round. The OED gives 'Exclamation mark' as the primary entry and 'Exclamation point' as a N. Amer. variation. Apparently both are in use in American English. Moogsi 17:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
