Talk:Exopolitics

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This article was nominated for deletion on January 20, 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

Archive 1 - ended 2006
Archive 2 - ended February 2007

[edit] Updating

Ok I am going to start updating this article today and tomorrow and for the rest of the week, if anyone would like to join me please do so (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · contributions} 20:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• I updated External links today, I will start adding references and citation tomorrow, join the part hehe (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 21:01, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• well i have updated the references a bit (i figured i couldn't wait tell tomorrow), but I will go ahead and clean up the references tomorrow using correct citation and improving on the article (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 21:22, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• Well i couldnt help myself, I went ahead and fixed the citation style for a few of the references today, I will finish the rest tomorrow hehe (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 21:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• The updating process is going very well, I should put in an additional few sentenecs tomorrow or so, join the fun if you want (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 23:28, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dispute

Please stop removing Webre's informatoin and source, he is very famous in the exopolitics and Ufology community and his works is very well known and was one of the first (if not first) major papers published on exopolitics (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 22:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't particularly care if he's well-known in the "exopolitics community." We source information to reliable sources on Wikipedia. His e-book is not a reliable source. Marskell 22:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• His source is reliable, I am not sure what you mean, it was one of the first if not first papers to talk about the subject (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 22:15, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I also don't care about whether he was the first to talk about it. It's an e-book. My kid brother can put out an e-book. It's not reliable. Read WP:RS or WP:ATT or WP:NPOV. Marskell 22:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• Please stop, it is a well-known document and well cited document in the field of exopolitics, look i am not sure why you keep removing it if your not familiar with the Ufology and exopolitics scenario (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 22:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• It is a primary source my friend, I understand what sources are necessary that why it is in the article (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 22:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

"It's a primary source." Thank you for making my point. Wikipedia relies on secondary, not primary, sources. It's an e-book. It is not reliable and you have not made an argument otherwise. It's fringe pseudoscience. Read NPOV—pseudoscience gets put in its place here. Marskell 22:23, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• Nope, it is also a Secondary source from a well-known, professional researcher writing within his or her field of expertise (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 22:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
• It does not go against NPOV, it just states that he is a key figure and published a famous work in the exopolitical and ufology community and given that he is a big player in the community it counts as a well esteablished seconday souce (well-known, professional researcher writing within his or her field of expertise)(:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 22:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
• It is a big work in the community b/c of his experience in the space-political arena in the United States and Canada and given his position at the time he helped initiate a formal exopolitical movement (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 22:29, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

First, I'm sorry, but I have to ask: please stop placing idiotic emoticons on my talk.

No, it is not a secondary source. As near as I can tell, it's a self-published manifesto from a pseudoscientist. I will continue to revert it. Marskell 22:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• yup it is a secondary source, and I have given why it counts as an exception to a secondary source (well-known, professional researcher writing within his or her field of expertise) given that he took all his experience in the political and space field and also it is a primary source b/c of his first hand experience in the field, and he didnt just make this up out of know where, it was a publication that occurred with occurred before to his famous book Exopolitics: Politics, Government, and Law in the Universe, and he is Michael Salla's coworker (did you not read into their profiles?) (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont} 23:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Third Opinion Summary: Alfred Webre should be included, but not this book.

Analysis:

• Some want to include a reference to an e-book by Alfred Webre into the article, citing notability to the subject.
• Some want to remove it, citing that it is a primary source and pseudoscience.
• Alfred Webre is a respected person in the area this article belongs to: politics in space. (Note that "politics in space" is far from pseudoscience - see also Space law)
• The source cited in the article is added to Wikisource by User:Nima Baghaei, does not cite the source where it is drawn from, does not establish any authenticity, and can be edited by anyone. This is about as bad as citing another Wikipedia article as a reference.

I suggest that something is written on Alfred Webre in this article, at the very least a see also link to the Wikipedia article. I would suggest noting the existence of one of his other books which seems to be about exopolitics too.

Also, this article needs expansion. There are numerous articles about this subject already (Planetary defense e.a.), and there is a huge subculture on exopolitics (Star Trek anyone?). Some reliable newspapers must have written something on that. Start by making a category and catagorizing all articles related to this topic in it. Category:Space_law is of interest too. --User:Krator (t c) 12:49, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

To be clear about one thing, I do not dispute that the broad area has a valid scientific base. And I do not have a problem per se with claiming that the zoo hypothesis is plausible. It's the "extraterrestrial presence" as formulated by these people that I'm calling fringe and pseudoscientific (Salla's seventeen extraterrestrial races etc., Eisenhower's telepathic communication with ETs, etc.). Words like "formalized approach" and "conventional political science methodologies" do not belong. They imply that the work was done in the academy when it was not. Actually, on balance it's Salla rather than Webre that should probably go. But most definitely, the e-book as cited now does not belong in the article. Marskell 13:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

The article mentions Australian state university. We can start with that if someone has a link to a program. Marskell 13:06, 5 April 2007 (UTC)