Talk:Extreme metal

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This article was nominated for deletion on 3/27/2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

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i predict soomeday that extreme metal will cease to exist except for in the form of brutal death metal and all other extreme genras will be mainstream

probably true, but by then we'll probably have even MORE extreme music. Also extreme metal will probably be diluted some as it becomes mainstream. --Eel 23:54, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, as far as I'm concerned I don't see extreme metal evolving into mainstream... Do you??? I mean, let's face it, there aren't that many people who listen to, say, black metal or viking metal, and the numbers aren't changing so fast that they will become mainstream in the near future... --IronChris 01:56, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Metalcore 2 Necessary 3 Thrash Metal 4 Intro sentence 5 Crossover thrash, deathcore, Swedecore

[edit] Metalcore

Is metalcore considered extreme metal?

I don't really think so. What bothers me instead is Groove metal with bands like Lamb of God and Chimaira and Machine Head. Are those bands and bands that play like them considered extreme metal?? likelightoflies 24:01, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

No. This is mainstream "metal", which is just rock dressed up and marketed as metal. These bands are not REMOTELY extreme.

How can it be said that Lamb of God is not extreme metal? I would argue that they are as "extreme" as most death metal or black metal that I have heard. Personally I would classify this band as extreme metal.

[edit] Necessary

Is this article really necessary as it adds really little content? Spearhead 19:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

To be honest, I find that extreme metal and its numerous genres is under-represented on the heavy metal music page. Maybe a section could be added on that page, though it is already pretty long. I think this article could be expanded, but it would then face the risk of repeating what is already written on the pages for each genre (death metal, black metal, viking metal, etc.). Still, it would be useful to have a page that would have all this information, even in a summarized form, to lead to all of these individual genre articles. In its present form however, it is indeed pretty useless.

In my opinion, it should be expanded to detail the emergence and characteristics of all the genres it includes, as there is no other page that describes and links them all in detail. If such a page exists I haven't found it. If another page isn't created, a greater section should at least be written on the heavy metal music page. --IronChris 04:52, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

one of the problems I have with WP currently regarding heavy metal and its genres, is that we have tons of articles but mosts are crap. Hell, most of the articles refer to made-up things, like cybercore. I've put a couple up for AFD, speedied a few, redirected some, etc. Cleaning up some good articles is a next step, which honestly is much more difficult Spearhead 07:29, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Articles on metal, metal subgenres, and related extreme/underground moosic always turn into a big useless mess, because metalheads have a strong tendency toward militant, uncompromising positions on everything, so every article gets slogged down with references to pet bands and assertions that _____ isn't "true" _____ [insert "Cannibal Corpse" and "death metal," "Nine Inch Nails" and "industrial," ad nauseam]. Hrrgh. I don't know what can be done about it and I've pretty much given up trying to clean them up. MrBook 16:32, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I think this article is necessery, since some bands such as Children of Bodom are difficult to categorise in narrow genres like black or melodic death metal. They could simply be labeled as extreme metal. --Izzy999 15:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

this goes for many bands esp if they changes styles rigorlously; eg: Opeth, Carcass, Paradise Lost, Nightfall. Spearhead 21:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Shouldnt sludgecore/sludgedoom bands (for example Electric Wizard, Eyehategod)be mentioned in this page? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.157.43.92 (talk • contribs) .

I came to this talk page to suggest that it might be a good idea to simply convert this page to a disambiguation page, but I think IronChris's suggestion is better. Explaining how extreme metal developed while linking the various subgenres in a meaningful way would be quite helpful, I think. Unfortunately, as the article is now, it is fairly useless and duplicates information already found elsewhere. Furthermore, it's vague and contradicts itself. Extreme metal is characterized by a fast or slow tempo? There is absolutely no need to list every kvlt metal subgenre you can think of on this page. I suggest only listing thrash metal, death metal, and black metal. Leave the tiny subgenres to those pages, please. Any thoughts? --Dalkaen^T/C 10:45, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

This article is POV by its title. When is metal extreme enought to be extreme metal. Also the "Structure" section is highly ambiguous and non-descriptive. Spearhead 21:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

You're right. In fact I don't think extreme metal is a genre. Metal can be extreme, but that doesn't make it a genre. If extreme metal is a genre then 'fast metal', 'intelligent metal', 'soft metal' could also be genres. I think this article has low quality content because nobody can come up with quality content. There is no quality content for this 'genre'.Emmaneul 02:53, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree; I voted "keep" in the AFD, hoping that this article would be expanded for the reasons I stated above, but it's still pretty crappy. I regret that I don't have the time and necessary knowledge to expand it. Maybe it should be turned into a disambig page for now, if no one is ready to take upon themselves the task of rewriting it entirely. IronChris | (talk) 22:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thrash Metal

Question, the Extreme music article states that "An example of what was once deemed (or would have been deemed) extreme style that is no longer considered so is thrash metal..." , while it links to this article, in the note about it, it doesn't mention Thrash. So one of these pages needs editting, but which one? It's a somewhat minor point, but it's inconsistant. Dace59 13:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intro sentence

"Extreme metal is a broad term for metal subgenres of a more aggressive style than traditional metal."

This is a rather worthless intro sentence, since "traditional metal" redirects to "heavy metal music", and extreme metal is a part of heavy metal. The purpose of an intro is to summarize what the article is about, and this sentence does not do that. Can someone come up with a better intro? IronChris | (talk) 21:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

..."heavy metal" now has two distinct meanings: either the genre and all of its subgenres, or the original heavy metal bands of the 1970s and 80s style sometimes dubbed "traditional metal". -Heavy metal music 68.47.1.63 17:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Well... basically, from the examples the page lists, extreme metal is any genre of metal that isn't the earlier metal bands, like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etcetera... So maybe "Extreme metal is a term which differentiates latter forms of heavy metal music from the progenitors of the genre." Or something in that vein? That's all I'm getting from what's on the page so far. --Dayn 09:58, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crossover thrash, deathcore, Swedecore

Why are these being removed? Crossover thrash is a thrash metal/hardcore punk fusion, deathcore is a mix of metalcore (or hardcore punk) and death metal, and Swedecore is a melodic death metal/metalcore fusion. 68.47.1.63 17:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Remedial solution: Create an extreme hardcore article. These subgenres are just hardcore with some death, black, or thrash traits. At the end of the day, they are not death, black, or thrash metal.--Danteferno 23:23, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

They're far from hardcore, which I'm guessing you've never bothered to look into. But, even if they were closer to hardcore punk, the genres were listed under "Fusion genres, subgenres, and variations," not the main "Extreme metal genres," and even you admit they have "death, black, or thrash traits." Scene does not make a genre. 68.47.1.63 14:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The genres you keep erroneously putting in are associated with metalcore and hardcore, not extreme metal. You admitted this in the post above asking why they keep being removed (and you also answered your own question.) EM fusion genres are deathrash, blackened death, or blackened thrash, not Swede-CORE, MelodicDeath-CORE or AtTheGates-CORE. Such inclusion belongs in a separate article - it is extremely misleading to include them in this one. --Danteferno 18:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)