User talk:165.228.130.12
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[edit] Blocking of Wikipedia in mainland China is now blocked
how funny is that. it is blocked for editing. check out the one that was reverted here, [1], so it seems that not only the Chinese Wikipedia is self censoring themselves, they are also here censoring articles as they wish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Korean_War&oldid=97838474
[edit] some administrators need to cool down
some of them are not doing a good job. they seem to have compulsivity, that is they are here to revert, revert no matter what. they don't care what people are writing, what people are commenting, they just think that everyone with an annoymous ip is a sock puppet.
for example, khoikhoi, this guy keeps reverting that article cultural revolution even though the one that he reverted was the vandalized version. [2] and now he actually put it under protection.
[edit] Chinese Wikipedia administrators are writing their own version
yes, they are writing that article themselves, major news media already said that their Chinese version is self censored. and this guy Ran who is an administrator wrote his own personal comments in the article, then it was put under protection. it is like the chinese government tell the world that their human rights record is perfect.
[edit] Khoikhoi and cultural revolution
this guy keeps reverting that article. [3]
he has compulsive disorder, he reverted the vandalized version several times without looking. now someone tried to edit it, he reverted it again and put it under protection.
i am sure that he is not the first administrator who does that. they are here to enforce rules rather than let people editing their articles.
[edit] Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view of history
1. November 29th, 2006, International Herald Tribune Asia-Pacific's article: Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view of history :"on sensitive questions of China's modern history or on hot-button issues, the Chinese version diverges so dramatically from its English counterpart that it sometimes reads as if it were approved by the censors themselves."
2. November 30th, 2006, CBS published an online article named: Is Wikipedia China Really Wikipedia?
3. On December 1, 2006, The New York Times published another report by Howard W. French, titled as "Wikipedia lays bare two versions of China's past."
"Some say the object should be to spread reliable information as widely as possible, and that, in any case, self-censorship is pointless because the government still frequently blocks access to Wikipedia for most Chinese Internet users. 'There is a lot of confusion about whether they should obey the neutral point of view or offer some compromises to the government,' said Isaac Mao, a well-known Chinese blogger and user of the encyclopedia. 'To the local Wikipedians, the first objective is to make it well known among Chinese, to get people to understand the principles of Wikipedia step by step, and not to get the thing blocked by the government."
And "the articles are already pre-censored by party-leaning (Chinese wikipedia) moderators and users." [4]
[edit] tjstrf reverted toal of 14 times in less than 25 mins
This person reverted the pages on village pump news and misc 7 times each. he reverted total of 14 times in less than 30 mins, even though he knew this rule very well. and he has reverted this page twice. [5]
10:31, 1 January 2007 Tjstrf (Talk | contribs) (what is the punishment for block-evading 15RR violation anyway?)
In the news section, he deleted news randomly then on the misc page, he deleted many people's comments without asking those people's opinions first.
[edit] The chinese wikipedia problem - the Chinese communist spies
"But on sensitive questions of China's modern history or on hot-button issues, the Chinese version diverges so dramatically from its English counterpart that it sometimes reads as if it were approved by the censors themselves." from Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view of history
The following was deleted by the 17-years-old user tjstrf. I am re-posting it again. seriously, what does a 17-years-old know about the Communist Party of China, what they have done, can do, and will do? You are just being too naive to think that the CCP doesn't want to take control of the Chinese site. Let me repeat it one more time, it is a KNOWN-FACT that China has spies in Taiwan. so sending a few secret police or spies to take over the Chinese wikipedia site is not false alarm.
--- I know, right now, those chinese spy moderators must be really hoping that they can delete this topic asap. I posted a similar comment on the chinese page, it was IMMEDIATLY deleted. and all my other comments which are not related to this topic, which are very relevant to those topics were also deleted, and somehow those chinese spy moderators also made them "disappeared" as if they did not delete anything at all. and then they banned me for "vandalism."
It is a known fact that China blocked its people's access to wikipedia. however, i checked the chinese page, they have total of 29 moderators that are in China! 6 from beijing, 6 from guangzhou, 6 from shanghai, etc. There are more moderators from China than from any other parts of the world. however, if the chinese are blocked from getting on here, how can those Chinese moderators still have time and resources to moderate the chinese wikipedia? isn't that odd?
you may have heard about Shi Tao, the chinese government put him in jail for 10 years because the government was able to find his location thru a single IP address which was reported by yahoo. those 29 moderators' are listed publicly on the chinese page. So it is quite obvious that the chinese government must have those 29 mainland chinese moderators' personal informaiton. I highly suspect that most of the chinese mainland moderators are spies sent by the Chinese communists. It is a banned web site, what kind of people are willing to edit a web site that is banned by his or her own government especially in china?!
I can probably safely say that there are more people using the chinese version from Hong Kong and Taiwan than people from mainland China. however, Hongkong only has 13, Taiwan has 17. isn't that odd? further, during my time on that site, as far as I know, no moderator from hong kong banned or deleted my contributions, and there are 13 of them. if I really did something wrong, shouldn't they also be able to ban or delete? and who can gurantee that those moderators who are listed under other country names are not really from mainland china?
Another thing, it is forbidden to gather without government permit in China. however, that chinese site recently even had two meetings in capital - Beijing and in city of guangzhou. there are constant reports about police harassing and spying on people who secretly gathered in churches which are not approved by the government, etc. so there is no way that the government doesn't spy on those wikipedia meetings. It is just shocking to see those moderators so "bravely" advertising on the public page. and when I posted a question about my doubt, it was immediatly deleted as usual. those comment pages were also put into protection.
i am not insance or crazy. It is also a known fact that china has spies in taiwan. it seems to me that the moderator from taiwan jasonzhoucn is also very "communistly" suspicious. one time, i added to only two extra links to an article of the chinese golden shield project, he immediatly deleted them without a reason. he also deleted the extra information that i have added for some of the articles.
i am not crazy, or delusional. however, think about it, the chinese have to use special programs, proxy servers in order to get on this page. and even if they have high speed, the speed won't be fast enough. who would have the patience even to edit those pages if the internet connection is not fast enough? there are 13 billion chinese, how many of them can actually get on here easily? so how is that possible that there are so many mainland chinese moderators?! and since the majority of Chinese can't get on this site, you would expect that there are lots of articles pro taiwan's independence, but there are not a lot. And the article about "Two Chinas" was actually deleted TWICE in just November. And one of the moderator later on said that he did not find any history about its delettion at all?!
The reason that i am suspecting is because of what happened to me recently. i tried to edit the page for the "peopel's republic of china". even today, that article does not have a single word about human rights and falun gong. i added those two items, immediatly a mainland chinese moderator deleted my contribution, then put that article into protection. i have added many similar contents in other articles. most of them have been deleted by those mainland chinese moderators.
when i tried to voice my suspision and my comments on those community forums, those moderators immediatly deleted them. then they banned me , accused me doing "vandalism?!"
with 29 chinese mainlander moderators, that site is basically controlled by the chinese spies sent by the communist party. they do not allow people to add anything that are bad about the chinese communist party. so here i am, I don't know if this is the proper place to voice my opinion. i seriously think that someone should take a look into this matter.
"But on sensitive questions of China's modern history or on hot-button issues, the Chinese version diverges so dramatically from its English counterpart that it sometimes reads as if it were approved by the censors themselves." [1] This indeed confirmed my suspicion. someone should do something about those moderators. -- SummerThunder 09:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Not our jurisdiction. Also, there's this lovely invention called a proxy that they are probably using. Finally, calling a large group of editors Communist spies without any reasonable evidence is highly uncivil and assumes bad faith. Going behind their backs by posting on another wiki doubly so. --tjstrf talk 10:19, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
you obviously do NOT know what the chinese government is capable of doing. just go read shi tao's artcile. they put him in jail for TEN years! ask yourself, will you be willing to risk your own life and freedom to edit a web site which is banned by your own government, and by doing so, you may be constantly followed, your emails, phone maybe to checked, etc. and you are not even getting paid for doing that. and not only that, there are SIX moderators directly located in Chinese capital beijing. China has recently spent sevral billion US dollars building their golden shield project. i would hope that i have gone crazy. but after what they have done to me and many other users, it is just 100% evident that there are plenty chinese moderators who are working for the chinese communist government right now on the chinese web site. SummerThunder 10:46, 27 December 2006 (UTC) Yes, governments can use their power to trace internet connections. Yes, if they feel like it the Chinese government could have them all arrested. But the idea that they do such things routinely is silly. Shi Tao was thrown into prison for 10 years because he was releasing secret documents over the internet, not for editing Wikipedia. Believe it or not, even totalitarian states have to pick where to spend their money, and have far better things to do with it than arrest Wikipedia editors. They'll block the place, sure, but the website in no way warrants the expenditure of man hours to arrest its members, even just to make a point. Just because an organization is capable of something does not mean it is realistic to expect it of them. You give Wikipedia too much credit, we are not a threat to China's national security and are only blocked as a part of the same system that blocks Google on occasion.
You are saying that the existence of a free criminal means they must be an undercover government operator. Do you not see the absurdity of this claim? Please, think before you fling around accusations. --tjstrf talk 11:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
ok. now let's talk the chinese government. you truly honestly have no clue about the chinese government. you wrote "not for editing wikipedia." well, no one in China can write a blog, edit a web site about tiananmen square protest. you can't even find anything about it by using the chinese version of google, not even the government's own news articles! It seems as if the entire history in 1989 totally disappeared in the Chinese history from everywhere. there is nothing. if you think that it is ok to edit just a web page, then how come no one in China can even edit anything about June 4th, 1989?
you may think that they can't be that bad, they can't be worse than totalitarian states, but that is how bad they are right now! the government has spent several BILLION US dollars on the golden shield project. and there is a special police force throughout China who does nothing but to monitor people's activities on the internet. people simply has no freedom of speech on the internet or in real life.
If that site is not currently controlled by those chinese spies, then you would expect to see lots of "bad" articles about chinese government and those pro Chinese government arguments. there is few. 29 moderators are from China, that is just too suspicious.
there is simply no way to explain why they deleted my part about human rights and falun gong in the PRC article, and my part in zhao ziyan which the english version kept all, and my links to the exile Tibetan pages, there are just too many examples to support the solid idea that they are truly the chinese spies, secret police forces, etc. SummerThunder 12:02, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] the Chinese moderators are incapable of managing that chinese site.
main articles: Chinese Wikipedia and Blocking of Wikipedia in mainland China. feel free to add your part of contribution. SummerThunder 01:53, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Chinese in different parts of the world use some different chinese words, such as different translations for the same English words. It is similar to the differences between the American and British English, such as "soccer - football, flashlight - torch."
So currently, those moderators have three different pages for mainland chinese, for people from taiwan, for people from hong kong and macau, even though the contents are basically the same! and they ask people to vote to decide which pages they should add!!! how big is hongkong and macau?! and hk and macau are already a part of China. and those moderators made a special page just for those two tiny cities? Even people in beijing and shanghai don't use the same words.
I suggested that if the English page only has one page for all people who speak English whether they are from africa or europe or america. how come the chinese site needs to have so many different pages? And if people from hongkong and macau can have a page of their own, then maybe it is time to add more pages for the Chinese people from Sigapore, from thailand, vietnam, south america, etc, etc.
After I posted a message commenting their incapability of leading that site, they immediatly deleted my comment. That is how they are managing that page. I don't see any hope for those people and the Chinese site.
It is time for the wikipedia governing body to take control of the chinese page, ask them to stop making all those nonsense extra pages for different Chinese readers. There are plenty of softwares that can change all those necessary chinese fonts, etc. SummerThunder 12:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
- How does this fall under the English Wikipedia's jurisdiction? Let the Chinese sort it out for themselves, or take it to metawiki. The English Wikipedia has no authority over the Chinese Wikipedia, they are sister projects on the same level within the Wikimedia organization. --tjstrf talk 10:14, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
OH. I don't know that. that is why i am writing it here. but you can see my point, right. however, those moderators are totally useless. they can't sort out anything. they can't even decide which page they should use. you know, i just checked on the talk page on meta, it seems that it doesn't have a lot of activities. SummerThunder 10:16, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
- Summer Thunder, please moderate the personal attacks. WP:NPA is official policy on the English Wikipedia, and you have repeatedly violated it. Stop, now. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:34, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
at least, you are not like those chinese moderators who deleted all my comments!!! and then banned me accusing me of "vandalism." If they think that they need to make pages for tiny cities Hongkong and macau, simply because they use slightly different Chinese, they obviously are not capable. This is clearly my personal opinion, it is not a "personal attack." I do not make personal attacks, but their disrespect of my freedom of speech make me very upset. Further, the way they are managing the chinese site is ruining its futuer for sure. SummerThunder 20:28, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
- You're wasting your time. There is nothing we can do about your grievances on another project. I imagine the Chinese Wikipedia has a dispute resolution procedure. If you don't get an adaquate response there, your best bet is meta. --Tango 21:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
well, i did post it on meta discussion. and i was blocked due to "personal attack." I don't know what they are thinking. That is my personal opinion based of real facts. Just like when bush called those few countries axis of evil, no one banned him from the white house. at least, I am glad that no one deleted my comments opinions on here. and people from the world can read about it and make up their own mind. Unlike the chinese commnuist government which blocked many sites, they think that they can think for the people! SummerThunder 21:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
- If your comments on meta were the same as they are here, I'm not surprised you were blocked for personal attacks. Please calm down. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:55, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
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