Talk:American Revolution

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Article Milestones Date Process Result January 11, 2007 Good article nominee Listed January 20, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted Current Status: Former featured article candidate

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	To-do list for American Revolution:	edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
Merge article on Colonial Scrip into Origins section as Benjamin Franklin, Peter Cooper, and others have written Parliament's passage of the Currency Act in 1764 was detrimental to the colonial economies, as it outlawed the circulating medium and caused a depression created widespread dissatisfaction among the Colonists. Many prominent Americans have called this the primary cause of the American Revolution and it deserves mention. Black Loyalists! Under-commented on group... Black Loyalists were slaves lured to promises of land, freedom, and provision in the British empire..namely Nova Scotia and Canada West..though some west to Trinidad I believe... investigate that group and its a very interesting trail. Add details about the effect of the Seven Years' War as a cause of the American Revolution Add information about the Boston Tea Party to the section titled "Boston Massacre and Boston Tea Party" Rewrite "Crisis" section, converting bullet points into text. Be sure to include Massachesetts rebellion of 1774 that forced royal officials out of office. Add section about historical interpretations on the effect of the Revolution on society, including: emergence of more "democratic" notions and practices in America role of women effect on "race relations" rewrite "choosing sides" section, discussing how various segments of the population decided to act rewrite "War for Independence" section, discussing issues not covered in the American Revolutionary War article, such as Domestic issues: Congressional management of the war Foreign policy issues: Treaty and alliance negotiations Rewrite "America after the war", converting bullet points into text, with some discussion of the issues confronting America under the Articles of Confederation Under the "Loyalists" topic it says, "Loyalists took some part in fighting, especially near Canada. 70,000 left the 13 colonies during or after the war. About 45,00 later settled in Canada, which they profoundly influenced." What is the number supposed to be? A new Web site provides first hand information regarding the American Revolution... from a British point of view : [ http://www.haldimand-collection.ca Haldimand Collection ] The 232 series fully indexed !
Priority 1 (top)

Archives.

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Contents 1 Link distinction 2 Archive 3 Immigrants and Loyalists 4 GA/R 5 Citation on Rousseau? 6 Callout at top of article. 7 Real Americans 8 End date 9 Boston Tea Party? Boston Massacre? 10 Black Loyalists 11 Constitution again

[edit] Link distinction

Notice: when linking articles to the American Revolution, be aware of the distinction between the American Revolution and the American Revolutionary War.

[edit] Archive

The talk page was archived on January 30, 2007. Previous discussions can be found at: Talk:American Revolution/Archive 1. --The Spith 14:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Immigrants and Loyalists

The assertion that immigrants were more likely to be Loyalists is not universally accepted, and particularly in the case of the Scots-Irish the opposite is often claimed, as it is contended that by-and-large they had a distrust of authority based on perceptions of mistreated by the British Crown. I suggest removal of the following from the article:

"Recent immigrants who had not been fully Americanized were also inclined to support the King, such as recent Scottish settlers in the back country.^[1]"

You have overlooked the word "recent". Immigrants since 1770 or so were unlikely to trust the rebellious American authorities, either. Flora Macdonald is the test case here. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA/R

I'm filing a GA/R on this article since it seems it wasn't listed properly to start with, and looking at the archive, it seems there were some major problems brought up that someone felt meant it shouldn't be a GA at all. Might as well just make this article's status certain and whatnot, review filed here: WP:GA/R. Homestarmy 17:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation on Rousseau?

Hello all, I'm a relative lurk in the Wiki world (and as such don't comment or contribute often), but a statement made in American_revolution#Liberalism_and_republicanism caught my eye:

Historians find little trace of Jean-Jacques Rousseau's influence in America.

Could the contributor of this statement offer a citation of some kind? I am interested in using this information, but cannot without reference :)

Apologies to all in advance, I'm not sure if I'm addressing this concern in the right place or format. Lucificifus 20:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Not to be argumentative but I don't think we can provide a citation for a lack of influence.Padillah 16:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Arguably Paine's Common Sense and his notions of a collective 'general good', to be expressed by a unicameral legislature designed to be democracy through representation, are derived from Rousseau's 'general will'. Those comments (and the Pennsylvania 1776 Constitution) didn't come from Locke. But his political influence was, in the wider scheme of things, really limited to anti-monarchism/republicanism and independence.

I see your point, and understand it. Thank you, I seem to have been overthinking again. :) Lucificifus 03:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Historians find very little Rousseau in America before 1820s. Thus "Rousseau, whose romantic and egalitarian tenets had practically no influence on the course of Jefferson's, or indeed any American, thought." Nathan Schachner, Thomas Jefferson: A Biography. (1957). p. 47. Rjensen 03:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Callout at top of article.

This article is about political poopy and social developments. I'm sorry but I have to ask: is political poopy really what is meant here? That seems less than eriudite. Padillah 12:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow... that's poopy vandalism from poopy schoolchildren. This is a known scourge. - NYC JD (objection, asked and answered!) 12:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: How can I critique others when I can't spell 'article' correctly? Padillah 16:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

...Nor "erudite"... (Sorry... inveterate proofreader with a prediliction for making hasty typos myself.) Esseh 00:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Real Americans

I STILL haven't the faintest idea how to comment/edit etc here!!! ("Two peoples separated by a common language"?) Anyway, this SHOULD be a separate comment, BUT as I can find no way to add a NEW comment, only ways to edit EXISTING stuff, I'm ph**t!!! :) Genuinely sorry to freeload your comment, :// hope you'll forgive my intrusion. Seems sort of apposite though wouldn't you say? (see below)

Comment is as follows: . . . what about the REAL Americans, the native Indians??? They were involved in the Revolution (or squabble between invaders over who should control the spoils of conquest?). I know they've been virtually completely exterminated by the colonists but still, would be nice to have a nod in their direction, no? What about the Iroquoi for example who allied with the Loyalist Brits (against the "New-world" Brits)? Isn't that significant? Perhaps Wasi'chu don't see their surroundings, including those living in them, human, animal, plant etc, as being relevant to their squabbles, but shouldn't wiki contextualise information as well as reflect perceptions of reality?

End rant  :)

LookingGlass 13:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I have taken the liberty of creating a new section and moving your comment to it... (for the future, just click the plus sign next to "edit this page").

You raise a good point. We should have something on the indiginous peoples. Please add it (Make sure it is well referenced and NPOV). Blueboar 13:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] End date

I know that an earlier version of this article (as well as much literature on the topic) considers the "American Revolution" to include the period up through 1789, when the current U.S. Constitution was adopted. Fishal 13:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Articles of Confederation:

While these were adopted by the Second Continental Congress in 1777 they were not actually ratified until 1781. Before '81 Congress relied on powers no colony/state had delegated to it (such as raising and funding an army...).

formal ratification was not necessary for actual operations. The states knew what they were doing when they sent delegates and obeyed orders from Congress and put their militia under Congressional control. Ratification did make the bond permanent, a point Lincoln emphasized in secession critis of 1861. Rjensen 21:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, granted. My point was, some sources (including Timeline of United States revolutionary history (1760-1789)) consider the Constitution-writing process to be a part of the "American Revolution" period. Fishal 15:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boston Tea Party? Boston Massacre?

Is this section missing for some reason? I know there are individual articles addressing both these events but some mention should be made here, especially since they are refered to later in the page and without some structure the references make no sense.Padillah 14:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. That's weird --AW 20:25, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, I added back the section on the Massacre, but it seems short. And the tea party still isn't mentioned --AW 20:31, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black Loyalists

Hi all. Noticed that this was on the "To do" list. I just added a paragraph in the "Loyalists" section that makes at least passing reference to Black Loyalists. I was in fact shocked to see that there is no independent article on them when I tried to wikify it. This really should be a separate article, linking here, to United Empire Loyalists, to African-Americans and I don't know how many other locations. I hope my little addition (with ref - details inside there; the article itself mentions two other articles on the same subject in The Beaver) will encourage someone to at least start this article. This is an important bit of Canadian history, too. (Honestly, I really do not feel qualified to do this, for those of you about to suggest it.) Of course, all comments welcome. Esseh 00:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
P.S. I see there is an entry on Africville, a now defunct suburb or Halifax, Nova Scotia founded by manumitted Black Loyalists. And yes, I will continue to red-link this until it (and I) turn(s) blue! I'll be watching... ;-) Esseh 00:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Why wait for someone else to do this... why not start the article yourself. Blueboar 20:28, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi Blueboar. Thanks for the vote, but as I said above (I bolded it), I'm not the guy for this. I did, on your prodding, send an e-mail to the Black Loyalist Heritage Society, however, suggesting that they might begin such an article, and offering to help with editing and such. I'll let you know what happens. In the meantime, you can check out their marvellous web site here [1] Esseh 05:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

ZJust triple-checked, and there IS a stub for Black Loyalist, singular. I think it should have the title changed, as there was more than one, and the stub refers them (properly) as a group. I will now change the link in the main article. Esseh 07:26, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Constitution again

Perhaps I didn't phrase my comment clearly enough. It is fairly common to include the early postwar years in the the "American Revolution." I am referring especially to Shays's Rebellion, the Philadelphia Convention, and the political ferment accompanying the debate onRatification. Since the article specifically says that it is not simply about the war, the revolutionary events of 1784-1789 should be included. Fishal 20:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)