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Talk:Anglo-Norman language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Talk:Anglo-Norman language

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] Copyright Violation

I have reported this article on the copyright violations page. Whoever wrote this clearly just copied chunks of David Trotter's original article.

[edit] Duplication

Is this page not somewhat duplicating Anglo-Norman?

[edit] "K" sound

"Other words such as captain, kennel, cattle and canvas exemplify how Norman retained a /k/ from Latin that was not retained in French."

What? The word for "captain" in French is "capitan" (KAP-ee-'ten). Have I misunderstood the passage? —Casey J. Morris 05:43, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

capitaine is a Normanno-Picard form in French, i.e. non-Francien. Chef shows the French development of the head root. But the sentence in question could probably be more clearly worded. Man vyi 06:41, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Er, yeah, "capitan" is the Spanish spelling (Sans accent) isn't it? Heh heh. —Casey J. Morris 15:13, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Anglo-Norman was a dialect, it was not a language. It says so in the first sentence of the article.--Mais oui! 16:34, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
  • Support --Mais oui! 16:34, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose All languages are dialects by definition. For example: the English language is a Germanic dialect; the French language is a Romance dialect. Man vyi 17:06, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose From the article "to compile official documents, to write literature, and for commercial purposes". Norman French was the formal language of England for several centuries. It was no more a dialect than Afrikaans was a dialect of Dutch during apartheid. --Philip Baird Shearer 08:19, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose The comment that "it says so in the first sentence" is undermined by your edit two hours earlier [1] --Henrygb 10:15, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Indeed? How so?--Mais oui! 21:40, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
      • If you change the article and immediately claim that the wording of the article is the reason for your proposed page move then people may doubt your good faith. --Henrygb 01:10, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
        • I think it may be my edit of the first sentence that you're referring to. Sorry for any confusion caused. Man vyi 10:46, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
          • No, I believe Henrygb is referring to this edit, made only nine minutes before Mais oui! placed the move request. In those circumstances, it is highly disingenous for Mais oui! to claim that the article's language supports his suggested change. Perhaps he's been reading m:How to win an argument. —Matthew Brown (T:C) 08:20, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose --Gareth Hughes 15:53, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
  • OpposeMatthew Brown (T:C) 08:22, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose Anglo-Norman clearly had both an army and a navy — Satyadasa 20:11, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Man vyi hit the nail right on the head. Most western languages are ultimately dialects of an ancient, and now lost, Indo-European mother-tongue. Rje 15:45, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

Have replaced contentious dialect with variety. Let's see how that goes; since Anglo-Norman developed into a literary and administrative standard, that may be a more helpful description to the non-linguist. Man vyi 09:57, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the logic behind this move request, but I'd prefer to see a move to Anglo-Norman, where the unnecessary term "dialect" is left out of the title. Marco79 16:09, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
'Anglo-Norman' is ambiguous: it can mean far more things than the language. --Gareth Hughes 16:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Agreed with Gareth Hughes. Leave it here, for the same reason that most other languages have an entry at X language. Satyadasa 20:16, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

One possibility is to go with "Anglo-Norman (linguistics)" to avoid using either term. That's what's done with the various Chinese languages/dialects. E.g., Mandarin (linguistics), Cantonese (linguistics), Hakka (linguistics) LuiKhuntek 07:39, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Result

Page not moved; no consensus. Eugene van der Pijll 18:42, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Oïl languages

It has been proposed that Languages of Oïl be renamed and moved to Langues d'Oïl. Comments and votes on Talk:Languages of Oïl, please, if you're interested. Man vyi 09:13, 5 February 2006 (UTC)



[edit] Infobox

I just added an infobox based on the one at French language. I've left the name as "Norman" for now, with the native name as "Normand". I wasn't sure how to handle the "total speakers" - I don't have time to find out numbers right now and in any case there are probably a lot more historical speakers than current ones. Please fill in missing params / correct errors as appropriate. Hairy Dude 04:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] first French literature in England?

I heard once, the first novel in French language was written in England, since in France at this time Latin was still state of the art. Is this true? (Sorry for my English I'm German.) LanX --217.224.41.23 02:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

  1. wait - guetter (French)
  2. war (from AN werre) - guerre (French)

AFAIK both words are of Germanic origin, so they can also derive from Anglo-Saxon. Please compare German "warten" and "Querelen" meaning "to wait" and "quarrel". Are you sure they entered English via French? Guerre comes from Frankish "werra" http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/guerre#.C3.89tymologie

also

  1. garden < jardin

thats "Garten" in German! This was most likely already an Anglo-Saxon word before Norman conquest. Please referre to http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/jardin#.C3.89tymologie

Which sources do you use???

LanX --217.224.41.23 03:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

OK I checked it, all words originate in Germanic/Frankish but made a detour via Norman-French:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=war&searchmode=none http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=wait&searchmode=none http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=garden&searchmode=none

LanX --217.224.41.23 04:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

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