Talk:Aslan Maskhadov
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"After helping to end the Lithuanian nationalist movement in 1991, Maskhadov became the Chief of Staff for the Chechen army."
Lithuanian nationalist movement was not forced to "end". It ended after Lithuania become independed state. Besides, seems like Maskhadov was not involved in 1991 events, although he served at the time in Lithuania.
Nor this is quite accurate:
"Maskhadov's attempts to stifle Wahhabism and other fundamentalist Muslim groups, coupled with his inability to keep Chechens from trying to drive Russians out of neighboring Dagestan, made him appear incompetent and incapable of controlling his country."
It's documented that Russian prepared in advance for the invasion (see the link, and 1999 messages there) LIST, and also there are grounds to assume that Basayev's people were just lured to action in order to justify the invasion that developed into open warfare, called the Chechen war two.
Also there are grounds to assume that Maskhadov is pretty well controlling his country in spite of alleged 80 000 or even 300 000 foreign troops in its territory. --BIR 11:29, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] Birth year?
From the article: "Aslan Alivitch Maskhadov (September 21, 1951 - March 8, 2005) was a ... Early life - Maskhadov was born in Kazakhstan in 1957 ..."
Which one is correct year? I tried various news reports of his death but none I read mentioned his birth year. —mikko (speak) 17:55, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- My mistake. It's definitely 1951 (see http://www.chechnya-mfa.info/bio/president.htm ). -- ChrisO 18:09, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "Middle" name
His middle name, Алиевич in Russian, is pronounced "Aliyevi(t)ch", not "Alivitch" --193.2.136.41 05:46, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks, I've corrected that. -- ChrisO 08:32, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Amir Basayev
Basayev and Mashhadov did not agree on many things but Mr. basayev would never make or allow an attemt on Mr. Mashhadovs' life to take place.
AS WELL YOU STATE AS A FACT THAT MR. BASAYEV WAS REPONSIBLE FOR THE APARTMENT BOMBINGS.ARE YOU A INTEL AGENT OR JUST REPEATING putins' PROPAGANDA.
One such as yourself is not qualified to speak Mr. Mashadovs' name let alone write an article about him.
FACTS NOT PROPAGANDA. FREE YOUR MIND.
[edit] Real information on the Chechen Resistance
KAVKAZCENTER.COM
Maskhadov was also of the Naqshbandi Sufi Order. Sometime between the two wars, he was initiated into the order. This might have added to some of the friction with Basayev's more hardline followers.
[edit] Reported death?
"Reportedly killed"? This should be edited because there is no proof to the contrary. Neither the Russian nor the separatists sides ever attempted to deny that Maskhadov was killed. Kazak 02:16, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "State-controlled" media
The Russian media is not controlled by the government, but is largely owned by allies of the government. There is a difference. In the United States, FOX is accused by many of heavy pro-Republican bias, but nobody goes around calling it "state-controlled". Please avoid such non-NPOV refrences in the future. Kazak 02:22, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
- No, it's state-controlled. Like in the Soviet times. There's still some 'free' press and radio (notably Ekho Moskvy), though.
[edit] Vilnius
The source link does not exist and although there are other mentionings online that Maskhadov took part in the mentioned events, none of them are based on real documents; it was so that somebody decided that he must have taken part in the events just because he served at Vilnius at the time and thus the hoax started - it continues to be repeated in many biographies, including pro-Maskhadov ones. A version of this hoax is an urban legend which states that Maskhadov got immidietly promoted in rank from captain to colonel (or general) for the participation in the events; in addition to these hoaxes there as well exists another hoax which claims that Maskhadov was ordered to participate in the events but refused to do so (usually this hoax is being said by the supporters of Maskhadov, while the beforementioned one - by people who do not support Maskhadov). Investigations were done by journalists several times but neither hoax was confirmed anyhow, so it turns out that Maskhadov neither received orders to participate in the events nor did he participate in them; after all, he was in rockets and artillery section and not all Soviet troops partitioned in Vilnius took part in the events. I can give links to the articles about such investingations, if you understand Lithuanian they will be useful. 193.219.141.198 09:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
- The source worked for me a few hours ago, but not now. Anyway, what you said is quite believable, so I will left it as is. If you can dig the Lithuanian references it would be great. We could put something like: Some sources [...] claim that Alan Maskhadov ..., but investigation by Lithuanian journalists [...] have shown that.... It would be of much more value than just blanking the text. I, personally, can not read Lithuanian, but somebody could and at anyway the Babelfish could help to get the general meaning. abakharev 13:07, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
-
- Ok the link worked for me in a few minutes after the first failure. It is a biography of Maskhadov, appear to be in neutral language. There is only one phrase about the Vilnius and it is kind of ambiguous:
- Maskhadov commanded a platoon in 1972-78. He next was a battery commander and chief of staff of a battalion in the Far East. In 1981-86 he served in Szeged, Hungary, with the Southern Group of Troops and then from 1986 in the Baltic Military District, first as commander of a self-propelled artillery regiment and from the autumn of 1990 as chief of staff of missile and artillery forces of the Vilnius, Lithuania, garrison and deputy commander of the 7th division. In January 1991 Aslan took part in the "Vilnius events" (the seizure of the television tower by Soviet troops). abakharev 13:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
- Ok the link worked for me in a few minutes after the first failure. It is a biography of Maskhadov, appear to be in neutral language. There is only one phrase about the Vilnius and it is kind of ambiguous:
- Dear 193.219.141.198, show sources supporting your conclusion or stop reverting. And please register (as I have already advised you on your temporary user page). Moonshiner 21:54, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
I have seen your given sources as I have of course searched the internet before reverting, but all sources are similar biogaraphies that are most likely copied from each other; no source explains it better, while here I give links to investigative articles about the topic and as well other sources which support other hoax (that Maskhadov supposedly refused the orders given to him and that Maskhadov: http://www.veidas.lt/lt/leidinys.full/423aac5d1a14b.2?veidas=58a9ee0d993c7b1 - this article cites Maskhadov's own words which he said in the interview for Moskovskiye Novosti.
excerpt: (...)paklaustas, ar jam nėra sunku bendrauti su Rusijos karininkais, jis sakė: "Man regis, jie dabar atsidūrę tokioje pat padėtyje, kokioje buvau aš tarnaudamas Vilniuje. Juk man tuomet irgi kalė į galvą: raudonoji armija nenugalima, kova vyksta dėl teisaus reikalo ir panašiai. Todėl kai prasidėjo įvykiai Pabaltijyje, aš nesupratau, kas vyksta: ko gi, maniau aš, jie nenori gyventi Sovietų Sąjungoje? Man gėda, kad aš buvau Vilniuje. Nors Sausio 13-osios įvykiuose aš nedalyvavau, man gėda dėl mano tuometinio požiūrio į juos. Jeigu Rusijos kariškiai, šiuo metu esantys Čečėnijoje, savo kailiu patirtų, kaip tai sunku – matyti, kai naikinama tavo tauta, – jie elgtųsi visiškai kitaip."
translation: When asked if it is not hard for him to talk with the Russian officers now he said: "It seems they are now in such a situation in which I was when I served in Vilnius. Back then it was said to me as well: the Red Army is undefeatable, the fight is for the right cause and such. Thus when the events in the Baltics started I did not understood what is going on: why, I thought, they does not want to live in the Soviet Union? I am ashamed that I was in Vilnius. Although I haven't taken part in the events of January 13th I am ashamed because of the view towards them I held back then. If the Russian soldiers who are now in Chechnya, would feel themselves how hard it is to see how your nation is being destroyed, they would act differently". (bolding done by me)
As you see, he was ashamed of his views rather than his participation; and these biographies mixed it. Translate with Babel if you don't believe or maybe you will find the original Russian quote somewhere as it was published.
There were more investigations of the said hoax here, and I am giving another example of articles mentioning other viewpoints: http://www.xxiamzius.lt/archyvas/xxiamzius/20030131/aktu.html (see chapter "Įtartinas bruzdesys") - this article denounces the hoax and explains that Maskhadov was stationed in Vilnius, but did not took part, while general Uskhopchik led the attack.
I hope this is enough. As for registering, I am not really active in Wikipedia, this is a university IP address, many people had edited Wikipedia from it and most of contributions are not mine. 193.219.141.198 09:51, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Edit
I deleted the section about Bush not naming Maskhadov, because it is not pertinent or sourced. Epsoul 00:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] New picture
If we want a better fair-use picture of him as he looked not long before his death, there's one at the end of the link.[1] --Estrellador* 20:26, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Name
Anonims add different complicated Arabic-sounded names for Maskhadov. I think this should be sourced, otherwise it is an original research. Of particular concern for me is the part "Ibn Alievich". The -ich suffix is a Russian form for patronimic it means son of Ali. The Arabic Ibn means exactly the same. I guess he might be either "Ibn Ali" or "Alievich" but Ibn Alievich is simply wrong. I also not sure that the Arabic names are appropriate for a Chechen leader (Russian names are somehow appropriate since most of his life he was a Russian military officer). Alex Bakharev 05:00, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. I see little point in adding all the formal names unless they really are commonly used and can be cited in some official text (not just some random forum).—Perceval 05:03, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
- Also, same problem with Doku Umarov.—Perceval 05:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
