Wikipedia:Barnstar and award proposals/Archive11

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This barnstar can be user to award Wikipedia Youth. I, as a member of the Wikipedia Youth Foundation, believe that young editors should be commended with a seperate, more appropriate star. (Like a Barnstar looking like a plush toy). I don't know how to create barnstars, though. Could someone make it?--walkingencyclopedia 16:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• The awards are for actions. What action should youth be awarded for? --evrik 17:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
• I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I was talking about contributions relating to articles for young children. For example, tirelessly contributing to articles made for Disney Channel, Nickelodeon could qualify as a special barnstar for that person. In other words, the barnstar is used for contributing to youth articles. --walkingencyclopedia 18:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Hmmmm ... well, the are you proposing a youth-related topical award or is there a wikiproject relating to youth? --evrik 19:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Yes! That's what I'm talking about: a youth topical award. Cn you make it? I've only been here for a month, and I'm still trying to get the hang of things. I don't even know how to make a barnstar.--walkingencyclopedia 20:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
• I don't think anyone is interested in this award. --evrik 21:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
• I agree. Let's archive it.--Ed 22:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

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The Constellation Award

A version with lines between the stars is also available.

• The Constellation Award

The Constellation Award is awarded to those who make exceedingly good contributions to Wikiproject Constellations. Feel free to edit the image to your liking, as it needs some work.

• A version with lines between the stars is also available.

--Gray Porpoise 13:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

• Support idea. The image needs to be edited, and I don't support this one, but I like the idea. → JARED ^(t)  14:11, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak support. I like 2nd image, but I'm not too sure it portrays a "constellation" as much as it should. Maybe find some way to connect lines so that it looks good, but not obnoxious. → JARED ^(t)  18:20, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• Is there any support from the Wikiproject Constellations? --evrik 14:12, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support idea; per JP06035. I'll see if I can come up with anything. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 14:55, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I've created one, based on this sort of image. I also have a version with the stars joined, but it doesn't look as good. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 15:12, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support Smurrayinchester's version, Image:Star constellation.png. —SHININGEYES 17:25, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Smurrayinchester's version is a good image. I did not intend the first version to become the actual image, just something to get people started. --Gray Porpoise 16:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support I like the second version. --evrik 17:56, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support #2 --South Philly 00:51, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support The second version looks awesome :) -- Grafikm ^(AutoGRAF) 13:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• I see too little support to think that this should be a Wikiproject award. What say the second image become a WP:PUA? --evrik 21:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support I like the second one, not so keen on the first one. Michaelritchie200 20:44, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
• Consensus: I think there is enough support for #2 to be eligible as an award. However, I will not place it in Wikiproject awards. Instead, I will place in in PUA as recommended by Evrik, since nobody objected his suggestion.--Ed 21:23, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

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I think that there should be a Barnstar for those editors and writers that contribute to Wikipedia, but not just to one particular subject. The Barnstars we have today are "specialized." I know that a lot of people write really weird but really good articles that doesn't fit into any of the Barnstar categories. What I'm proposing is a Barnstar for anything. Any article. Any change. Any contribution. For anyone and everyone. Unfortunatly, I'm not really into image creation, and, so, am having difficulty creating this Barnstar. If anyone is interested, feel free to make one and present it here. Best wishes. -- Wolfie001 20:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• We already have one: the good old, all-round, all-purpose Original Barnstar. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 17:20, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
• Agree with sMurray. --South Philly 17:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
• Agree with sMurray. --evrik 04:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• Agree with sMurray. As for the "people write really weird but really good articles that doesn't fit into any of the Barnstar categories," we have the Oddball Barnstar. Thanks for the idea, though. --Gray Porpoise 16:47, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
• Agree with sMurray. --Ed 19:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
• Archive: I'm going to archive this. No one has approved it yet; there isn't even a proposed image yet!--Ed 15:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

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As a spinoff from the TV/Radio Barnstar, I have developed a Music Barnstar. This also covers the music video section as well. The barnstar glows in a black eighth note. This was developed because one was needed for music/music video. This will not cover radio articles: the equivalent is the TV/Radio barnstar. -TrackerTV 00:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Isn't this the music barnstar? --WillMak050389 01:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

We should make it an alternate, and the original barnstar's scope would expand to music videos. -TrackerTV 02:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Can't we have more than one barnstar for any particular thing? They are both nice. Shannon^{duck talk} 04:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• There are already five barnstars for music in the archives. Let's stick with that one. --South Philly 05:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• I say cancel this proposal South Philly is right. You can find music barnstars here, here, and here. But we still do need radio barnstars.--walkingencyclopedia 17:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• OK. Then this will be a radio barnstar, the above proposal will be TV only. OK now? -TrackerTV 19:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• I think that one for the broadcast media should be enough. --evrik 19:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• NO:We only need one star for broadcasting.--walkingencyclopedia 17:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

• ARCHIVE:I think we should archive this now.--Ed 19:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

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I mainly made this to reward people who worked so very hard on the 2006 FIFA World Cup and on other football-related articles. The Running Man Barnstar was the best I could find and it seems too general for the purpose. What do you think? --Guinnog 02:44, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Possibly could be used as a WikiProject award, i don't think football needs its own barnstar, though. Nice pic and color choice! --WillMak050389 03:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I should have mentioned I'd floated it on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#Football_Barnstar as well. Thanks for the nice comment. --Guinnog 03:31, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• Support - I like it and you can't have too many barnstars :-) BlueValour 04:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support seems fun. Philc _T^E_C^I 14:42, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support. Aye. — President Lethe 15:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support it would be fitting to have such a Barnstar that relates to the sport. -- Alias Flood 16:50, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support. Good idea! — Pal 16:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
• Opose as a new award. There is already the Running Man Barnstar. If Wikipedia:WikiProject_Football wants to prpose it as a Wkiporject Award, then I would give support. --South Philly 17:53, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
• Use as WikiProject award Well made, but a bit too specific for general use given that we already have the Running Man Barnstar. Oldelpaso 21:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment I made it specifically because I thought the RMB unsuitable as it is too general. Football is the most popular sport worldwide, and is appropriately well-represented on the project. There may be many other users like me who felt the RMB unsuitable for a football editor, as it shows a stylised runner. I am not suggesting that every sport should have its own barnstar, just football. It seems to me to be big enough to deserve it. Hope that makes sense. --Guinnog 22:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose --evrik 04:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support. There is a large and active community working on football. Wantok 01:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support but change name: European football is the same as American Soccer. Maybe we could name it Football/Soccer Barnstar.--Ed 13:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment I certainly wouldn't have a problem wit that. --Guinnog 13:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support as a WikiProject award, with the project's approval. Another possibility for an image could be a star with the black and white pattern of a football. This popular sport deserves its own award. --Gray Porpoise 16:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
• CommentNot everyone using English Wikipedia is from the same country. I'm American, and think that the star should be named Football/Soccer Barnstar. I know that I brought this up already, it's just that people keep saying football.--Ed 19:46, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
• Consensus: I think we have approval on this, right? I checked the discussion the Wikiproject had on this as well, and I think they approve it as their award.--Ed 18:01, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The discussion for the Football (Soccer) Barnstar has been sent back to the proposal page by Evrik for further discussion. When debate is over, please place the new results of the discussion below this message. Thank you.--Ed 18:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• I don't see major support coming form the wikiproject, and I think this needs to be up for more than a few days ... I moved it to the PUA page until then.--evrik 18:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support There are a whole lot of users working in football-soccer related articles. Bruno18 21:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support me like very much, whichever name is agreed. --Andymarczak 07:54, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• Add me to the supporters. --Daduzi ^talk 16:34, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• ConsensusThere clearly is a consensus on this one. Take a look on the Wikiproject's decision here. I will be placing it back up.--Ed 15:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

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A-League Barnstar. Created by Daniel.Bryant Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 12:43, 5 August 2006 (UTC)]]

The existing football/soccer award.

Image:A-LeagueMedal.gif Designed to be awarded to the people who make awesome edits to an article associated to Wikiproject A-League. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Daniel.Bryant (talk • contribs).

Other Discussions on this Topic:

• Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_A-League#Barnstar

• You need support from the Wikiproject first. And please sign your comments.--Ed 13:28, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Sorry, I thought the fact that I signed my name in the frame would have been enough. And I have support from my Wikiproject, including most active members and the other co-ordinator. I don't know the next step from here, thuogh. Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 05:57, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
    • You must add a link from this page to the discussion you had with the project's active members. As long as we have evidence of a project's approval, it can become a Wikiproject award.--Ed 13:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Another discussion just began on the link above. I put that there for simplicity. I still need your discussion with your other friends right below that link.--Ed 15:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose didn't we already support a soccer award? --South Philly 01:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support. The A-League project is distinct and has its own community. See no reason not to have a new barnstar. -- Wantok 01:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support I have no problem with an A-League only barnstar. It looks good and a lot of people do edit a lot of A-league stuff so why not. -- Boltonfan22

• Um. I dunno mates. A barnstar for each league? Hmmmm I'd rather think the soccer barnstar is perhaps sufficient, not to discourage you from having whatever informal awards internal to the project, or user awards, that you like. Herostratus 02:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• I cannot vote based on the fact that I am biased as an advance recipient of this apparent non-official barnstar :P -- Chuq
• User:Daniel.Bryant/Comment - Maybe it should be placed under WP:PUA, just like the Pokestar was (as it is similar to the A-League|football situation, with its "mother" project being Video Games). Daniel.Bryant 07:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support. I'm for our little part of the world/Wikipedia having such an award. -[dM] 11:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support for WP:PUA--Ed 14:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose The soccer award should be used, or the sports barnstar. If that wikiproject wants to have their own award, let them, but it shouldn't get listed here. --evrik 15:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. Personal internal awards between editors should be fine, but for them to be listed here is not really necessary if only a few of us are offering the award between ourselves. Bobo. 17:15, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose the current soccer/football award could be extended for above areas. Æon ^{Insane Ward} 19:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose I don't think there's a need for it to be honest. And I don't know how the whole licensing thing works, but I'd be interested to know how this image is GFDL when the image of the A-League trophy (Image:A league trophy.jpg) is copyrighted. – AlbinoMonkey ^(Talk) 21:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Daniel.Bryant/Comment - GDFL is fine, as it would be no different from walking down to SFC headquarters and taking a photo on the same angle. They can't copyright their own trophy illustration now that it is not a proposal anymore. Daniel.Bryant 06:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose The soccer/football award is sufficient for the purposes i think. Blackmissionary 23:26, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Daniel.Bryant/Comment - OK, I see the main point is that the Football/Soccer barnstar covers this area, and therefore this doesn't deserve its' own listing. I accept your reasoning, and wish to withdraw this nomination, provided it isn't against any rule/policy to give this the title of the "A-League Barnstar". Can someone just assure me we will be allowed to call it that title, and then I will be happy to withdraw this proposal. Daniel.Bryant 06:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• I'll take care of it. --evrik 16:22, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

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This is a proposed series of awards for service: WP:SERVICE

As I have it now, this is unlike other awards in that:

• It is based strictly on a mechanical count of service time and number of edits. (Yes I know about editcountitis.)
• It can be self-awarded.

There is no human judgement (=politics) involved here. If nobody likes you, you still get one (if you qualify). If everyone likes you, you still can't get one (unless you qualify).

Right now, I have it as only being for editors who are not admins. The reason being, I was thinking that there ought to be something, that is kind of hard to get, besides becoming an admin.

This would only be very useful if it catches on, though. I think this is kind of unlikely. Partly because people who are currently eligible are likely to be blasé and uninterested. But it's not for them, it's for editors who aspire to be like them, so perhaps they could be be jollied into going along, some of them anyway. (To get a list of eligible editors I'd need to query the database which I don't know how to do, but that's a detail. After the backlog is cleared, and supposing it did catch on, editors just help themselves, I guess.)

I'm wondering if this is even worthwhile. Anyway, I liked making the graphics, and suggesting an entirely different use for them would be fine, too.

Questions:

• Does this make sense. Is it likely useful.
• Does it make sense for it only to be for editors who are not admins.
• Are the levels set too high or too low.
• Other.

Comments welcome --Herostratus 05:30, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

---

• Neutral I'd like to hear what others have to say. --evrik 15:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support. There's always room for a fresh, new award that's different in nature than others. --Gray Porpoise 21:49, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support These are very prestigious awards that seem to be, as said above, new and interesting. --WillMak050389 00:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
• Note: I added one more level and made a couple of the early "steps" be six months instead of a year. All open to criticism/comment of course. I was also thinking, removing the "no admins" idea makes it even simpler for one thing. Also very few editors with say four years service won't be admins. Herostratus

  I don't know if this is what you were trying to avoid, but maybe there could be an entire ranking system from "newbie" all the way up to "Complete and Perfect Tutnum"? Just a thought. --WillMak050389 05:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Not trying to avoid that. Could be. Interesting Idea. I kind of like it. Herostratus 05:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Not that I'm trying to make parallels with Wikipedia at all, but it would be like messageboards have certain ranks for the number of posts a person has. Only these awards would be for number of edits and amounts of time. --WillMak050389 05:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Done. Although I think there are better terms than "snorf", "snorf klangtnor", and "snorf klangtnor angkt", but I can't think of any right off. "Mank" is OK I think because it references "manque" which is an obscure term for "wannabe". Herostratus 07:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
        • Those look great, though, on a funny note, I'm still a "new editor" because I've only been here three months despite the fact that I have over 2500 edits. Oh well, I think it would be a great new system for us to have. --WillMak050389 14:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• Comment How about changing this to an order-like decoration (e.g. the OBE)? The new award would include ten different classes:
  • New Editor → Member
  • Journeyman Editor → Officer
  • Yeoman Editor → Lieutenant
  • Established Editor → Commander
  • Experienced Editor → Knight Commander
  • Veteran Editor → Grand Officer
  • Veteran Editor II → Grand Cross
  • Veteran Editor III → Knight Grand Cross
  • Senior Editor → Master
  • Master Editor of the Encyclopedia → Grand Master

In line with the British honours system, we can also create post-nominal letters for each class, and a motto for the Order (e.g. Scientia potentia est). What do you think? —SHININGEYES 17:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

It's a good idea; perhaps better than using strange words like Tutnum and Snorf Klangtnor Angkt. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 18:14, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

• This whole idea seems rather silly and self-serving. --South Philly 00:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
• Hmmm, I think maybe that Knight Grand Cross and so forth is too formal. And anything military like "lieutenant" would be straight out. The Counter-Vandalism Unit has been attacked for sounding too "military" already. This is Wikipedia, I think we have way more anti-militarists than not. I don't know, though. I think various shades of "editor" are straightforward, somewhat formal, and to the point, while the various shades of "Tutnum" are kind of like "Pooh-bah" or such, to be taken less seriously. What WOULD be cool if there was someone who knew heraldry or medal design to make a third "more formal" path, using the Knight Grand Cross and whatnot (which I personally like as an additional third path, not replacing the others.)
• South Philly, you have a point, but the reasoning is not to serve self but serve the 'pedia by enticing editors to keep it up to "get to the next level", granted it seems silly that people would care about that... but some do. I know I would.
• I also note that two people already (at least) have awarded these to other editors, I don't know how they even found it. Herostratus 03:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
• I think we should post a link to this idea at the village pump before it goes any farther. --evrik
  • Done. Herostratus
    • Comment. The discussion is currently here. —SHININGEYES 00:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support. -- Grafikm ^(AutoGRAF) 14:00, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• I don't feel good about this proposal. --evrik 22:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Taking all the discussions together, I'm seeing a roughly 50-50 split. So here's what I'm going to do now (which of course any editor can change), which seems a reasonable compromise:

• I won't delete the service awards, but I also won't make templates of the individual awards, list them on the barnstar template, or add any mention of them anywhere on the barnstar pages.
• I will move the page from my userspace to Wikipedia space, let them remain in the Category:Wikipedia awards (another editor has placed them there), and personally give out a few here and there.
• If another editor wants to put up the page as a "Proposed guideline" to get either a decisive rejection or acceptance, that would perhaps be reasonable in my opinion. True, they are just barnstars, which don't usually go up a proposed guidelines, but since its a whole system of stars maybe it would be OK. Herostratus 21:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

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Alternate

My proposal

Existing image

I am proposing a slight modification to the barnstar barnstar. In the existing image there is a black dot in the middle of the smaller star (most likely due to copying the image which changes transparent parts to black, if anyone knows how this can not be done please inform me). I have eliminated the spot, though it is a bit pixely if anyone can fix that, and I am proposing the switch here just in case there is any opposition. --WillMak050389 19:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy support; looks better. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 20:00, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support: per Smurrayinchester for immediate switch--Ed 20:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• I think I still want it to look less pixely around the smaller star, but don't know how to fix this. --WillMak050389 20:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - Here's an alternate image with less pixely-ness. Sango123 20:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Neutral - from my computer they look the same sorry Æon ^{Insane Ward} 20:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Super speedy support for the alternate. --WillMak050389 20:15, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support: Even better! Still support for speedy.--Ed 20:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Super speedy support --Guinnog 20:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• They look about the same to me. --evrik 20:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

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Barnstar of Esperanza. Created by Aeon Æon Insane Ward 14:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Associated ribbon for the Star.

Support of Esperanza

This is for those Esperanzans who go out of there way to spread the spirit of Hope and Wikilove to which the Project stands for. Esperansa is one of the most active and outgoing projects on Wikipedia and members of said project do many many great things here. This would most likey if approved go in the PUA catergory. Æon ^{Insane Ward} 14:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Other Discussions on this Topic: See Esperanza for the discussion on their barnstar.

Support: Making it a PUA is a great idea, but there is a huge support from Esperanza, that there is a possibility for it becoming a WikiProject award.--Ed 15:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support as a PUA or WikiProject Award. --evrik 15:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Opinion: Deserves WikiProject status. --Ed 15:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Fine by Me! Æon ^{Insane Ward} 16:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support, I will happy to see it go in either category. Though Esperanza isn't a Wikiproject by name, it seems appropriate for both categories. -- Natalya 21:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll be moving this, since there is clearly approval from Esperanza, and nobody objects to this award in any way.--Ed^{talk c E}02:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

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The first version of the Barnstar, licensed under the GFDL. Pulled from proposal by creator	ShiningEyes' version.	The second version of the tower design. Pulled from proposal by creator	New version me and my dad came up with, needs cleanup, but this is the general design WillMak050389
Proposal#5	Proposal #6	Cleaned up WillMak050389's version by removing the power cord.--Ed 13:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that there are enough television and radio articles to warrant a barnstar meant for extraordinary contributions to television and radio. This proposal would be used by WikiProjects Television and Radio (plus any subprojects, like Television Stations).

I have also uploaded an image that is my first proposal (or rough idea) of the Barnstar. -TrackerTV 02:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Support idea, I've created an alternate version. —SHININGEYES 09:56, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Support idea. I don't like either image too much though. Maybe a different design, although whoever did the first one had the right idea. → JARED ^(t)  13:02, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Support idea, not the picture I don't like the image ideas either. TrackerTV had a great idea, but I think that this suggestion should be seperated into two seperate topical barnstars: one for TV and film, and another for music, radio, and music video contribs. --walkingencyclopedia 16:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I will be submitting a seperate proposal for film, and another separate one for music and music video. TV and radio are both forms of broadcasting, and the original barnstar was done for that. -TrackerTV 23:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Neutral on the idea. Hate the images. --evrik 16:21, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I find the power cord distracting. Instead of superimposing the tv, could it be made part of the star. --evrik 19:13, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Is this supposed to be for Wikipedia:WikiProject Television. --evrik 19:13, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
• Update: The second version of the tower design and the Music Barnstar proposal are now up. -TrackerTV 00:43, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
• New Design My dad works in television and thought up this idea (#4) image needs cleanup and possibly antennas added? What do you guys think? --WillMak050389 02:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
• support The images are sharp and neat looking. Thumbs up on all of them and they are all beautiful, especially WillMak050389's and ShiningEyes is great, too. Why can't we use all of them? Shannon^{duck talk} 05:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
• SupportImage #4. It's perfect, no changes needed.--walkingencyclopedia 17:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
• I don't like Image 4. This is also for radio and the barnstar needs to reflect that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TrackerTV (talk • contribs).
  • Maybe a different version could be added for radio, like a barnstar with two images for separate areas of work? Not sure. --WillMak050389 02:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
• I think we should make a new design: a barnstar with concentric circles radiating from the center. If you don't have a clue what I just said, it's like putting broadcasting "waves" coming out of the star.--walkingencyclopedia 17:18, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
• Added Proposal#5--Ed 15:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose as barnstar, Support for ORA.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus  talk}  17:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• Support image 4. I Love image #4, no cleanup needed. Suggest a seperate barnstar for radio. The two mediums are almost completely divergent at this time.Transcendentalstate 20:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support, but could be sent to two different categories. This TV/Radio barnstar qualifies as a topical award (Television), and also the WikiProject award for WikiProject Television, WikiProject Television Stations, and Wikipedia:Wikiproject Television episodes.--Ed 20:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
• Are we putting this award up, because consensus says Proposal#4 is the best.--Ed 21:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I think, as the original uploader, the image needs to be tweaked a little, maybe get the screen somehow better incorporated to the middle of the barnstar and possibly add antennae. Any ideas? Or does someone want to try to fix it? --WillMak050389 23:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I would try taking out the electric cord. And nvm the antennae. It looks fine without it.--Ed 02:22, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose as barnstar, Support for PUA.--South Philly 17:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
    • If this will be a PUA or ORA, use the tower design. TrackerTV 22:07, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support #5 as a barnstar or a PUA. Image #4 looks good, although the idea of barnstars with images in the middle of them is getting rather stale. Another image idea could be a television with a barnstar on the screen. --Gray Porpoise 16:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
• I added Proposal #6. I hope this satisfies your idea.--Ed 17:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Thank you. That's a great image, and I support it. This is my order of support:
    • Greatest: Propsal 6
    • 2nd greatest: Proposal 5
    • 3rd: ShiningEyes'
    • 4th: cleaned up version of WillMak050389's
    • 5th: second tower version; improved over first
    • 6th: WillMak050389's; as I said earlier, I don't prefer superimposement of images
    • Least: first; too plain --Gray Porpoise 19:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Support--I still support #4.Transcendentalstate 18:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• Added Proposal 7, which is a cleaned up version of WillMak050389's version by removing the power cord. It looked really distracting.--Ed 13:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• I think we already reached consensus on Image 4. What does everyone think?--Ed 17:58, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems mostly that way, although my personal opinion has not changed. --Gray Porpoise 19:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• I don't see major suppoort coming from the wikiproject. --evrik 18:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• ImportantI have decided to pull my two tower images. The third one will be a proposal for a radio barnstar. I hereby accept number 7 as the image for the TV Barnstar. TrackerTV 20:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• In response to the comment by Ed regarding its use in television Wikiprojects, I would like to suggest it can be used as the Wikiproject award for the WikiProject British TV channels as well. --tgheretford (talk) 21:43, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
• Great idea. --Ed 13:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I have cleaned up version 7 to look the same as 4 without the cord and it now has a transparent background. Hope this looks better. --WillMak050389 16:14, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Looks better!--Ed 16:27, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support #7 though it is a close run thing with #4. #4 is different and I like that but #7 is, well, just that little bit better. All the proposals are good though. Wikiwoohoo 19:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• It sounds like #7 may be the winner ...--evrik 19:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Support: I support 7, too!

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Based on the Star of life.

The Encephalon Cross For commendable contributions to medical articles.

Medicine is a major part of Wikipedia, having tens of thousands of articles, but has no award. It falls awkwardly between Science and Life. It may not be suitable as a barnstar, but if not chosen for that, I'm sure WikiProject Medicine wouldn't mind having this as a WikiProject award. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 15:32, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• Have you seen this?

The Encephalon Cross for commendable contributions to medical articles.

--evrik 16:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• • Maybe a cleaned up version of this star could replace The Encephalon cross? Just a suggestion. --WillMak050389 16:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
    • I hadn't seen the Encephalon Cross; perhaps it should be moved to the Topic-related awards part of Wikipedia:Personal user awards. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 17:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Do we need the permission of the creator? --evrik 20:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
        • The creator went inactive over a month ago :(, but I don't think we need permission. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 19:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
• I like the cross, but think we should make an effort to contact the user brefore coopting the award. --evrik 14:23, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree; he seems to be not inactive as such, but very restricted; edits come once every few days. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 14:44, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• someone should just be bold.--South Philly 00:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support #1. I like Barnstar awards better. GangstaEB (sliding logs~dive logs)
• The Cross was created by me and released under GFDL; further permission from me is not required. I do like the barnstar above. —Encephalon 15:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• smurrayinchester, can you clean up that image? --evrik 21:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support of the idea of a barnstar. Like the star better.--Steven Fruitsmaak | Talk 09:57, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support as a barnstar. Should we put it in Wikiproject awards for Medicine? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leroyencyclopediabrown (talk • contribs).
• Oppose Whilst i support the use of a medical barnstar, im not sure the star of life symbol is well known enough worldwide. I dont remember seeing one anywhere in the UK, having said that i just looked on the ambulance article and there is one there with it on. :) --Martin 14:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support. The barnstar is my main preference, but allowing people who award the- er... award to choose between the two might also be good. --Gray Porpoise 13:24, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Unless there is a redesign or a groundswell of support, I suggest we shelve this idea. --evrik 18:02, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
• I've had a quick go at cleaning it up; any better? smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 15:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Forget it; it looks much worse! smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 15:31, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support the award. The image is bad quality. Michaelas10 20:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
• I think we have a consensus. Unless anyone opposes or beats me to it, I'll put it on relevant pages.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Talk) 14:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

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This is not a proposal for a single new award, but for a new type of award designed to accredit skill rather than distinction. Please see Wikipedia:Skill badges and discuss on the talk page. NeonMerlin 15:09, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

(discussion moved to Wikipedia talk:Skill badges by NeonMerlin 18:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC))

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These are two concepts for a barnstar for rail-related articles. EASports 19:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

• Image is too cluttered. --South Philly 00:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• Neutral Like the idea for a topical or wikiproject award. The image needs some work. --evrik 04:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support. Rail seems like a big enough subject for a barnstar. The images are a neat idea, but don't show the star quite enough. The second image is better. Could the star be colored differently or made brighter to bring it out a bit more? Herostratus 23:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support Image2--Ed 19:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support - I don't know whether I am eligible to "vote" here, but it's only natural that such a barnstar would complement other "topical" barnstars, and the quality of the images (both the idea and the execution) is absolutely superb. The Image 1 is better, as it isn't as "obvious". Bravada, talk - 11:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
• Unless there is a redesign or a groundswell of support, I suggest we shelve this idea. --evrik 18:02, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support either image. They both look professional, and rail transportation is a rather large subject. With support from the project, it would make a good award for the Trains WikiProject. --Gray Porpoise 17:40, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
• 'Support 2nd Image; there's too many pistons in the way of the star in the first one. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 09:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
• I think we should get rid of all the pistons altogether. --evrik 13:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

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I noticed that Cabalists, Mediators and Arbitrators do an awful lot of work on Wikipedia, and they hardly get any recognition. I thought we ought to roll out a barnstar in their honor. I approached Sango123 to ask her if she would design the barnstar, seeing as I am no good at design. So, she came up with this.

It would be awarded to Cabalists, Mediators and Arbitrators who do an excellent job on a specific job, or just a great job in general. Tell me what you think!

Viva La Vie Boheme

• I like it. --Guinnog 01:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose We already have an award for Admins work. --evrik 04:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• 'Oppose per Evrik. I think we're getting star-happy. I don't like it. --South Philly 02:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment; Arbitration and mediation are very different to adminship. But never the less, I agree that it is unecessary. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 18:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• Emphatic support - Most of the proposals given here seem fairly trivial, but this one - in my opinion, at least - would fill a real need. Mediators have volunteered to take on one of the most (if not the most) frustrating and thankless tasks Wikipedia has to offer. Let's start giving these out liberally, and soon. – ClockworkSoul 16:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
• Wikiproject or PU award; while important, I'm not sure it is major enough to earn a sacred barnstar; but I like the idea. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 18:13, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• I agree with User:Smurrayinchester --evrik 18:25, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support the idea, but not the image. Rather than an image of a dove in front of a barnstar, I think a small emblem of a dove would work for a non-barnstar award. (Also, I think that that dove image is being used too much, and we should get a few new dove images.) --Gray Porpoise 19:17, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support I agree with Smurrayinchester.--Ed 14:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Those comments were conflicting. I support the idea, but not the picture.--Ed 13:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support As a Med Cabalist I love the idea. Æon ^{Insane Ward} 02:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support. G.He 01:19, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support. Mediation is not the same as administering. Like the image also. Herostratus 02:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment As mediators are integral to the operation of wikipedia, I say we add them to the da Vinci barnstar. --evrik 22:14, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support an individual award, ie. the picture above. Daniel.Bryant 05:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The Arbiter's Medal

Given what these people put up with, here is this idea:

Two gold Barnstars rotated until you have a ten pointed Barnstar. In that, you have a image of Lady Justice holding a pair of Scales in one hand, a sword on the other. To be awarded to Arbitrators who have shown outstanding ability. They often have a thankless job. This is my way of thanking these personnel. Martial Law 06:28, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Which arbitrators are you referring to? --evrik 14:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

ALL of them. Excuse bug. I'm on a malfunctioning Satellite ISP. Hoping they fix it. Martial Law 18:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• How is this different from the proposal immeadiateky above this? --evrik 20:40, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

They act as judges, so a apropriate award would be needed, since a judge in court has a pix of Lady Justice or the State Seal behind him/her. Excuse the sig. I have a persistent bug that keeps me from logging in nearly 1/2 the time. The problem is with my ISP. Hoping they fix this real soon. Martial Law 18:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

• How about providing a link to the group you are referring to? --evrik 21:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

See Court TV, the live trials for what the Seals look like. The Arbitration Committee often have a thankless job, thus is the reason for a similar type of award for these personnel. Martial Law 21:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

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In this, you take two Gold Barnstars, rotate one until you have a ten pointed star. In that, a Silver Circle is placed, in the circle, is placed a A. Then, a pair of LARGE silver wings is placed, so that it has one wing on the right, one wing on the left of the ten pointed star. This is to be awarded to outstanding Admins. Slight modifications could be done to award this to stewards, to Wikipedia itself, outstanding Users, to the boss himself, Jimbo Wales. Martial Law 18:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

• There is already and award for administrator work. Check out Wikipedia:Barnstars, Template:The da Vinci Barnstar --evrik 19:02, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Could this design be a update of that one ? Martial Law 20:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I wanted to propose this in the Barnstar area, but the format has changed.

I have moved the discussion below from Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard. —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-08-15 21:41Z

Discuss :) —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-08-15 21:41Z

Although I strongly believe that all Admins User Pages should indicate that they are Admin with a Userbox or a disclaimer or something. I can understand the Noms motivations, and I think they are well intentioned. I feel a Barnstar for Admins only is way too exclusive and elitist. I think the this will strengthen a Clique Admin culture within the Wikipedia, and leave regular joes like me out. An Admin Barnstar could mean more than a regular Barnstar because only select Wikipedians can qualify. And having a Barnstar with two Barnstars of equal size symbolizes that an Admin Barnstar is more important than other Barnstars. Pete Peters 22:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

• Again, there is already and award for administrator and sysop work. It's on Wikipedia:Barnstars, and it is {{The da Vinci Barnstar}} --evrik 01:15, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

		The da Vinci Barnstar
		{{{1}}}

The da Vinci Barnstar may be awarded to anyone who has enhanced Wikipedia through their technical work (programming and tools, bot building, admin or sysop work, link repair, Mediawiki developers, etc.)

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I'd like to create an award for people who help fight POV forks (while still being civil and promoting verifiability and being bold, of course). I don't have a design, although I'd like to base it off of the (GFDL image) fork on the right. --M@rēino 17:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• I think all of those things are already covered by existing awards. --evrik 20:47, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I apologize for being unclear. I know that there are existing awards for civility and for promoting WP:V and WP:BOLD. I only mentioned them because I want to make it clear that people who fight POV forks while, say, being uncivil or biting newbies, wouldn't deserve the "fork award" -- which does not exist yet. --M@rēino 21:31, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

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The design of the proposed Welcoming Commitee Barnstar

A second possible design by Jam01

Welcomer's Star

Cleaned-up version of Jam01's design

I propose a welcoming commitee barnstar award. It should be awarded to Welcoming Commitee members who tirelessly welcome new users with lots of WikiLove. There are lots of Welcoming Commitee members who deserve an award like this. I encourage people to create a new design for it. Created and designed by Jam01 06:20, 22 August 2006 (UTC). Image:WCBs2.PNG - A second possible design by Jam01

• I dunno. It seems like thanking people can be done with many of the existing awards. Isn't it against the spirit of the Welcoming Committee to expect to get an award? I'm just saying ... also, this already exists as a PUA --evrik 18:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support the concept, oppose the image. --Gray Porpoise 20:51, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
• Also, Support concept but oppose image. Maybe somehow incorporate a heart with the welcoming image man inside. --WillMak050389 21:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I created a 2nd possible design using Will Mak's idea above. P.S: I know it isn't a barnstar. Jam01 07:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Image:Welcomer's Barnstar.png - Welcomer's Barnstar

• Comment I found this (Image:Welcomer's Barnstar.png). Maybe use this for the barnstar? --WillMak050389 16:24, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • That would make a good welcoming award, but the image is already used as a PUA. --Gray Porpoise 19:02, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Welll, the image could always be upgraded. --evrik 13:58, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I don't like the image, maybe something else than the old idea of a barnstar on an image? Also, if you don't want a white square around the small image, use the other type of moving images in paint or use photoshop. Michaelas10 16:54, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
• I tried to clean it up. See Image:WCBs3.png --Gray Porpoise 19:10, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support image 3 (the "Welcomers Star") Daniel.Bryant 05:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
• The fourth makes for an ok award, I suppose. As for a barnstar, how about one that enlarges the "speaking person" (the center of #1) and places a classic barnstar in the thought balloon?

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. I propose a barnstar for continuting importnat contributions to environmental subjects. My skills of design are not good enough to produce the actual design. Is anyone up for the challenge? --Alex 11:28, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Right now, Category:Environment falls under the Category:Science barnstar, the Template:The EMC² Barnstar. ARe you proposing a WikiProject Award or a topical award? --evrik 18:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks for this, I believe the science barnstar is good however very broad and appears to be very scientific. The Environment is a broader ranging subject including science, technology, engineering, ecology but also social and political elements amongst othters. It would ideally be a topical award, my aim is to increase contributions to Environmental subjects in a joined up manner in Wikipedia--Alex 08:17, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
• Not enough support to even generate an image ... --evrik 13:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
• Lol even comments from people would be a bonus it seems!--Alex 16:43, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

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Hi, I'd like to propose:

Lots of editors work hours straight on the bootcamp channel, helping users, dealing with angry users, sorting out {{unblock}}'s, but the majority work on {{helpme}}'s. I have been edit conflicted many times, (which is good! :) ), by other, equally-eager Bootcamp-er's: and I think it's now time they were honoured with a barnstar :) --Deon555^talk_Review 01:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• Neutral The idea leaves me cold, but I'm not yet willing to say that other awards for this work will suffice. --evrik 04:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
• Where does that boot come from? I'm thinking of copyright? Computerjoe's talk 11:55, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Hi Computerjoe, Nah it was originally from Image:Dr_Martens, black, old.jpg. I cut out the standing boot in Paint, and flipped it vertically :) --Deon555^talk_Review 01:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. I propose that Wikipedia have a barnstar reserved for those editors who are particularly good at finding references to back up really obscure bits of info.--*Kat* 08:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

• I so totally support that idea. As Jimbo said at Wikimania, we should be focussing more on improving existing articles in the coming year instead of mindless increase of the article count. People who find sources to improve articles should be awarded. - Mgm|^(talk) 19:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
• I think some of the exisiting awards might work for this. --evrik 16:27, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• I like this. Lack of citations is one of our very biggest problems. Herostratus 23:12, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

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• This is a great idea, will somebody accept already -- freakofnurture 07:54, 5 September 2006 UTC.
• What is it to be used for? --evrik 16:27, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. This is for CVU personnel who have shown outstanding ability:

Four Barnstars rotated until you have a 20 point Barnstar. In this, you have a Roman Short Sword. Since they have a thankless job, this is my way of thanking these personnel as well. Martial Law06:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• I think we should include the CVU people under the da Vinci Barnstar per my comments at Admin Gold Medal. --evrik 13:58, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Neutral The RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar and the Defender of the Wiki Barnstar are used for and ment for this. Æon ^{Insane Ward} 21:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

• Good point. Maybw we should upadte the description of those to? --evrik 13:36, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed! The Antivandal star is fine but maybe we should update the Defener one. The CVU does Defend the Wiki! Æon ^{Insane Ward} 17:00, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

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Hey, I just found the big gallery of Barnstars of National Merit for various specific countries over in the Commons. Can we have one for Hungary? I think a few of those may be in order if we manage to get the 1956 Hungarian Revolution article tops on the Article Creation and Improvement drive, and especially if it becomes featured article on Oct. 23 as is our hope! OK....that was kind of a shameless plug for the voting. I still think a Hungarian National Merit barnstar would be very welcome. :) K. Lastochka 16:23, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

• If you missed it, the page here on the English is: Wikipedia:Barnstars/Barnstar of National Merit, but we tell people to to to the commons to see if their country is listed there. If you want Hungary, I suggest you make it yourself and place it here: commons:Barnstar#Barnstars_of_National_Merit or commons:Category:Barnstars

--evrik 17:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi again, I'm about to upload it to the commons but I'm not sure what license to put it under. What I did for the image was I pulled one of the existing National Merit barnstars off the gallery and then modified it on Photoshop...would it fit under Public Domain? I'm still pretty new at this Wikipedia stuff...K. Lastochka 22:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know either, consult the copyright policies.--Ed^{talk c E} 23:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I DID, and got confused. That's why I asked. I don't want to inadvertantly break the law. K. Lastochka 02:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

• Why don't you just make it PD? --evrik 13:55, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I do believe that's what I'll do. :) Thanx guys, off to upload. K. Lastochka 15:25, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

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#1 - User:Lcarsdata's first version.	#2 - User:Michaelas10's first version.	#3a - User:SteveBaker's first effort.	#3b - User:SteveBaker's second effort.
#4a - User:Lcarsdata's second version.	#4b - Cleaned-up version of User:Lcarsdata's second version.	#5 - User:Lcarsdata's third version.	#6 - User:Michaelas10's second version.
#7a - User:SteveBaker's third effort.	#7b - User:SteveBaker's fourth effort.

The Computing Star is awarded to those who make outstanding contributions to computing/internet related articles. Also used for WikiProject Computing and all descendant WikiProjects. Introduced by Michaelas10 and designed by Lcarsdata. -- Michaelas10 18:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support Good idea, it would certainly help improve some of the many POV computing articles. Lcarsdata (Talk) 18:13, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support as a wikiproject award. Though I'm not thrilled with the image.--evrik 20:47, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
  • How do you suggest the image should be improved? -- Michaelas10 21:22, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
• Most of the other awards have the star as the focus. Maybe have an image of a laptop with the star on the screen? --evrik 21:32, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• I Support the award as a wikiProject award but I also dilike the image, maybe have some star-shaped motherboard looking piece with transistors and what not? --WillMak050389 21:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support the idea of a computing barnstar - Reject the image proposed. We can do much better. SteveBaker 22:40, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support Support the star but not the image. Æon ^{Insane Ward} 23:02, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support the idea, and evrik's image suggestion. --Gray Porpoise 23:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

New image proposed - This one is customized by me, looks pretty simple and focuses on the barnstar. -- Michaelas10 20:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

• Reject The new image has all the same problems as the old one - you have a fairly photographic image of a barnstar stuck in front of a line drawing of a computer - and the two clash horribly. You need to keep the same style throughout the image or else it looks like Mary Poppins (film) in which live action was just crudely pasted over cartoon action. Either use a more photographic computer - or a more line-drawn barnstar. But I still think you should come up with something less obvious. SteveBaker 22:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

...time passes...

• How about this one? The text is the first dozen lines of the MediaWiki source code - the award is for bringing Wikipedia software into sharp focus...or something kitchey like that. SteveBaker 23:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

• • I know it's not my WikiProject and I haven't got anything to do with the award, but I was just wondering how would the image look like w/o the "sharp focus". I believe it could look like the barnstar reflecting in the old-school computer monitor. Bravada, talk - 00:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

• • • Well, so much for the deep symbolism that was such an integral part of the entire artistic gestalt.
    • (But, actually - yes - it's much nicer than my original idea - thanks for the insight)  :-) SteveBaker 02:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

• I am glad to hear you think so :D More or less a propos, I am haunted by the "barnstar wheelcovers": another manufacturer who used a moderately barnstarish design is Simca. Check out the Simca 1300 or this Simca 1000 GL (there is some probability we might finally obtain CC BY 2.5 for the latter image). Bravada, talk - 02:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I have created this one which uses an idea from above. Lcarsdata (Talk) 17:49, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I have made another and moved all images to top gallery. Lcarsdata (Talk) 18:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I've uploaded my last version, this one is not a barnstar - it's an award, the Golden laptop award. I am aware that the most of other WikiProject awards are somehow based of barnstars, but there is no rule that indicates it. Michaelas10 19:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment cleaned up User:Lcarsdata's second version a bit. --WillMak050389 02:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Support Image 3b--Ed^{talk c E} 19:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

3b is too blurred. I think 3a will be better. Michaelas10 20:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

• Right now, I have to go with 3b as I think the lettering in 3a is too distracting. The message is there even if the words are blurred. --WillMak050389 20:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support 3b 22:43, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • The original concept behind 3a was of 'bringing Computing & Wikipedia into sharp focus' - so the star shows sharp text in classic 'green screen' style where the award is - and blurry text where it isn't. For good measure, the text I chose is the first few lines of the MediaWiki sourcecode (index.php in the latest distro). OK - so it's heavy on the symbolism - but IMHO, it doesn't look too shabby. However, as was subsequently pointed out, (3a) almost looks like the star is reflected in an old-style green-screen monitor - and by making all of the text equally blurry (which is what 3b is), that's the effect you get. So, 3b is simply a barnstar reflected in a monitor that's showing the beginning of the Wiki source code. The text is intentionally out of focus now because we are focussing our attentions on a reflection - which makes the 'foreground' be out of focus - it adds a touch of realism. I actually prefer 3b - it's subtle. If you make all of the text sharp - it just looks cheesey and obvious - and I'm not interested in going that way.

• • If you really wanted to go the circuit board route, I think you'd need to do with some 3D modelling and make the star be somewhat in perspective with the components on it sticking up out of it. The star would need bevelled edges or something so it looks 'finished' - and you'd want to take care that none of the components were cut in half by the edges of the star. As it is now, it just looks like someone cut out a photo with scissors. SteveBaker 02:15, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support 3b. Herostratus 19:12, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support, in this order from greatest to least:

1. 5
2. 3b
3. 4b
4. 3a
5. 4a
6. 1
7. 2
8. 6

--Gray Porpoise 20:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot I had already voted. Still, this is the order of my support. --Gray Porpoise 18:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Your first vote was before all of the images we currently are considering were included - and also we were initially asking the question "Should there be a computing barnstar?". From where I'm sitting it looks like we unanimously agree that we want a barnstar - and (if you sort out the order of arrival of votes and images), I think we have a definite preference for 3b. Are we done? Do we have some sort of consensus? If so, I'll do whatever is necessary to move it onto the barnstar page. SteveBaker 01:46, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

No consensus yet, 2 people voted for #5 and 4 voted for #3b. Michaelas10 21:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support #5, although I already proposed 2 images, I believe it would fit perfectly in the WikiProject awards page. #3b fits better intro a programming award instead of award for general computing. Michaelas10 21:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

  But you could equally argue that #5 is all about hardware and that there needs to be a more general design to encompass the software parts of the art. I don't think you can come up with a single image that says it all - so no matter what you pick you'll have a bias one way or the other. #5 just seems so crudely done - there are white speckles all around the edges of the star and the lighting on the laptop is poor and doesn't match the star. SteveBaker 23:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

5 is showing a computer, which means all hardware, software and anything releating to computing. Also, the issues that you provided can be easily fixed with a single edit. Michaelas10 23:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

• • OK how about #7a and #7b for a compromise between #3b and #5? SteveBaker 00:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Well done, but they don't focus much on the barnstar, how about a front view on the intire laptop? Michaelas10 13:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
      • I like that these are a little more subtle. Just taking the obvious square-on view and sticking the obvious square-on barnstar onto it just looks so predictable. I want something a little more subtle and artistic. SteveBaker 11:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
• I like 4b for both hardware and software. --evrik 14:00, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I think 4b reminds only hardware, not software. And it doesn't have the structure of a barnstar, just the shape. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Michaelas10 (talk • contribs).
    • I would strongly oppose 4a/b - they are just poor images. We need quality here. SteveBaker 11:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
• I like 7a and 4b. I think 4b would be improved with a transparent silouette/outline of a barnstar overlaid. - Jc37 15:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
• Neither for nor against this. Jamesday 15:52, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
• Would someone mind culling this down to the three top choices? --evrik 01:38, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Final consensus building

There we go:

#3b - User:SteveBaker's second effort.

#4b - Cleaned-up version of User:Lcarsdata's second version.

#5 - User:Lcarsdata's third version.

#7a - User:SteveBaker's third effort.

Michaelas10 19:53, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

• Number 4b --evrik 22:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
• Support idea, 4's and 7's get my vote :) -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• 4b going once .... --evrik 20:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it.

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Can anyone give the award a form of a barnstar instead of just shape? It's really important for it to look more like other awards and have a higher quality. Thanks. Michaelas10 10:50, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

• I don't understand the question? --evrik 14:41, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I mean, it should at least look 3D and have inner shape of a barnstar. Michaelas10 20:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Ehh, I think that it being in the shape of a star is as good as it's going to get. --evrik 17:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
      • It's a PUA quality. It should be moved. Michaelas10 (T|C) 18:04, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
• Nope, it's a WikiProject Award, and they went through a lot of discussion. --evrik 18:58, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
  • It didn't went through a lot of discussion as far as I remmember, and there wasn't a 100% support for this award. Besides, there are a lot of WikiProject awards in the PUA page. Michaelas10 (T|C) 22:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it.

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

This is a concept for a barnstar an award for exemplary work in Automotive-related articles. Note that there was general support for a Railroad star, and the Automotive section of Wiki is comparable in size, support and need for recognition. SteveBaker 06:01, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support. The Auto project has grown quite large and considering the extensive scope of the project a custom barnstar is more than appropriate. Besdies, I like this particular proposal: It's easily recognizable as a barnstar, yet clearly hints at the subject matter of the project. Regards, Signature^brendel 06:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment I do support the idea, but I guess we need to discuss the design on the Project page before submitting it. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 11:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

As a point of procedure: Does this proposal page cover approve the proposal to have a barnstar - or does it specifically approve the design of the graphic for the award? I assumed the former - but maybe it's also the latter. SteveBaker 14:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• • The consensus is that each wikiproject can create its own award, and that anyone can place an award on the PUA page. However, to have an award listed on the wikiproject page, or to create a barnstar, it has to be vetted here first and that consensus or greta support must be achieved. --evrik 21:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Great picture! I support the picture, but it is up to the project page to work it out and accept it. Discuss it there first. → JARED ^(t)  15:05, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support. I also love the picture. --Gray Porpoise 13:21, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support award and definitely SUPPORT the image. --WillMak050389 15:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support: Definitely support. --Ed^{talk c E} 17:59, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support Great image! --digital_me^{(Talk•Contribs)} 20:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Question Barnstar or wikiproject award? --evrik 18:01, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Which wikiproject? --evrik 20:48, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Wikipedia:WikiProject Automobiles? --WillMak050389 20:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• I would go with WikiProject award, as i do not believe it encompasses enough to be a barnstar. --WillMak050389 03:50, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support The image is well designed, highly supported. -- Michaelas10 18:25, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Six votes is not a lot of support. --evrik 21:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Highly supported by me. -- Michaelas10 08:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Why is it that you require so many people in the discussion over other awards, such as the Islamic Barnstar Award, but only three votes were sufficient for selecting the Saint's Star Award, which is regarded as the Christian Wikiproject Award. Three people voted, and one was a vote of opposition.--JuanMuslim ^1m 14:35, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Simply stated, because the image already existed (Image:SaintBarnstar.PNG was created in December 2005, and the creation of the WikiProject Award was simply a reuse of an existing image. --evrik 15:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
    • That logic doesn't make the selection of the image any more fair. --JuanMuslim ^1m 17:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
      • The logic makes perfect sense. The image was accepted for one use. After the imnage had been accepted, two different WikiProjects adopted it as theirs. It's almost the opposite of what happened with the Islam Award. --evrik 18:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
        • Show me where the process allows for that exception. --JuanMuslim ^1m 20:28, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Update - The consensus both here and on the Automobiles project appears to be that we 100% agree that we need an automotive barnstar - and that almost everyone likes the idea of a star overlaid on a custom wheel - but that not everyone likes this particular custom wheel. Whilst I think we have the votes to justify making the image above be the automotive barnstar, it would be better to try some more designs based around the car wheel motif. I'll be working on that as time permits. SteveBaker 15:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Great to hear that! Thanks a lot Steve! I can't wait to see more of your creations! Bravada, talk - 15:30, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I've posted some GIMPped (think 'photoshopped') versions of your Simca 1000 suggestion over on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Automobiles#More_Barnstar_proposals - please continue the discussion over there. SteveBaker 11:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support: Sure, why not?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:32, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Final Consensus

After further discussion on the Automobile project page, I am please to announce that there is a clear consensus in favor of adopting this image as the Automobile project Barnstar to be awarded for all significant contributions of an automotive nature. For those who care, the image is of a Simca 1000 GL - the car was originally blue and the hubcap had an ALMOST barnstarish look that took a little GIMPing around to look as it does now. Thanks to Bravada for suggesting it. SteveBaker 20:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

• Fine by me, any objections? --evrik 20:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
• (Someone edited my previous comment - crossing out 'Barnstar' and writing in 'Award'...No no no! Barnstar. Look at the hubcap. It's a barnstar. SteveBaker 20:39, 20 September 2006 (UTC))
• I.. still like the old image better as it fits better in the WikiProject awards page, but I guess this one's ok. Michaelas10 08:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
• That would have been me. Look at my comments in the other section. --evrik 01:09, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it.

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

How about an automotive Barnstar?

I see the Railroad guys have petitioned for a special Barnstar award for their WikiProject - and it looks like it's getting some support. Not to be outdone, I thought I'd throw an image together and propose it.

If you have comments (like Support for example :-) you might take a stroll over to the proposals page: Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals/New_Proposals#Automotive_Barnstar

Well, I like this one-a chrome wheel as autmotive barnstar. Regards, Signature^brendel 06:28, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Good idea! I have actually been looking for a suitable award like that once and ended up awarding somebody a Pentastar. For some reason I find a very appropriate travesty of the original barnstar concept. Unfortunately, the only pic of the pentastar is the one I insert below, though I think that it's roughness only adds to the effect. If somebody could get hold of a hood ornament of the 1980s Imperial Coupe photogrpahed head-on, I think it would be a perfect Pentastar! Regards, Bravada, talk - 11:16, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Erm, using logos in userspace might not be a good idea... --Interiot 11:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

But that's a photo, not the logo itself. Unless of course some anal-retentive copyright maniacs butt in, it is a free photo and can be used wherever we want. If anything, we are promoting it rather than disgracing it, besides the company has not been using it for some time now. Finally, the pentastar as such is nobody's property, it is just a generic graphic design. I would be even more for a graphic interpretation of it, perhaps having a barnstar-like Pentastar posing as a hood ornament. Somebody would have to do it (*sigh*), perhaps I will think of it later.

My problem with the "alloy barnstar" is that simply I am not quite enamoured with it graphically (with all due respect to Steve, who surely put a lot of effort in it). Compared to the railway barnstar, which you can find just above in the nominations page, it is not really that refined, and I do not feel too good about striving for a 20-inch gaudy Giovanni. I like the way the author of the railway barnstar propositions incorporated the barnstar design discreetly into a really nice photo, without making it too obvious. If we could have something like this, it would be great. Bravada, talk - 11:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't mean to be an anal-retentive copyright maniac as it were, but my understanding is that a picture of a logo is nearly equivalent to any other image of the logo (otherwise we'd constantly be getting around the fair-use issue by taking lots of photos of subway maps and famous artwork and television screens and such, and declaring them magically public-domain). This seems to be only loosely enforced on WIkipedia and even Commons, but if a photo is exclusively of a logo, it seems like it makes itself a more obvious target. (granted, there's this, but those are being discussed for deletion now). --Interiot 12:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for drawing my attention to that - I placed a warning on the deletion page! The problem is that this category, apart from artistic depictions of details of automobiles, also contains logos outright copied from the Internet or something, so no wonder it raised concerns. I believe that a photo of a badge or hood ornament does not infringe any rights of the automaker, as we do not use for commercial purposes or anyhow else that would inflict losses on the company (quite contrary to photographing a map, as the photograph might serve the same purpose of the map - you can figure out the rest). I guess you have all seen numerous photos of badges and signs on products, buildings etc. placed in print media articles more or less directly discussing the company or product. I doubt it whether they contact the trademark owner for permission everytime they publish a photo like that.

Anyway, this is a totally different issue. What I wanted to propose is some internal contest for the design of the Automotive Barnstar. I don't know whether many of us are gifted with artistic talents (I am not), so maybe we can post raw ideas here, and get some of the Wikipedia artists to submit their designs, both based on our suggestions and their own concepts. Bravada, talk - 13:28, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm quite 100% certain I don't want a company logo for the barnstar...no, no, no - hell no. There are two issues to decide here: Firstly - do we agree that we want there to be an automotive barnstar? Secondly - what graphic do we want? I don't here any objections to the first - but we're not happy with the second. Please don't spare my feelings - the chrome rim barnstar was a 5 minute job, I'm a 3D graphics geek and I can create stuff like that very easily. So - let's kick around some ideas for what it should look like and when we have some good ideas I'll be very happy to do the detailed design and rendering - and even knock up a few variations that we could vote on.

What I don't like about the railroad barnstar is that it's a photo with a barnstar embedded into it - none of the other barnstars out there are full rectangular photos and it looks out of place. I chose the chrome rim because it's cut out like the original barnstar whilst clearly saying "Automotive" by being recognisably part of a car. I think that's more appropriate than (say) a regular rusty star with a car stuck over the top of it. Barnstars generally seek to be somewhat witty and clever. SteveBaker 14:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

(indent reset) Well, I actually like the railway barnstar very much for what you mentioned - it is not an in-your-face image screaming "BARNSTAR!" with a blinking neon light over it and Elgar's "Pump & Circumstance" playing while Miller's and popcorn are being handed out. No, it is a discreet, elegant, refined picture of high quality by itself, with a small hint recognizable by those in the know. It will always come with loads and loads of info on what it is and there can be no mistake about that, so I guess the fact that it isn't the standard barnstar with Thomas the Tank Engine (who is a subject of a separate project btw) slapped on it is not a problem. If it doesn't fit in with the other barnstars, it says something of the quality of their quality.

What I would strive for is a barnstar that would exude the same qualities, being a refined, high-quality picture itself, with a recognizable reference to the scope of this WikiProject, and a barnstar well-composed into it. Apart from the Railway Barnstar, I can think of two current barnstars that have similar qualities - The Hollywood Barnstar and The Blueprint Barnstar (although the barnstars are pretty evident due to the theme employed). Coming close would be the Stargate Barnstar, although the idea might not be that inventive.

My vision is something quite like the Absolut Vodka ads (excuse me to indirectly promot alcohol here, ApolloBoy and Karrmann please don't click the link ;-) ), where the iconic bottle is cleverly composed into different backgrounds. People who know what it is about can really appreciate those little works of art.

On the other hand, nobody says we should absolutely have our award in the form of a barnstar. The fellow airborne WikiProject employs some very nifty WikiWings. Perhaps we can devise a more unique award like that?

Here's a list of items that one can compose a barnstar in, or can derive a new award from - I hope other will chip in:

• car's wheel (obvious)
• steering wheel
• hood ornament or a badge
• car keys or a keychain
• engine cover
• (your proposition)

^ The above was submitted by the notorious Bravada. Karrmann's comment starts below. Bravada, talk - 18:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm all for the Pentastar being our barnstar! Karrmann 16:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I mentioned the pentastar because the original barnstar is actually a penastar and the figure was used as a prominent car company logo, but I did not mean the ACTUAL Pentastar. Bravada, talk - 17:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

So - I tried the obvious car wheel and a few people don't like it...Karrmann suggests: steering wheel, hood ornament, car keys or engine cover. Engine covers don't really lend themselves to star-shaped things - they are square things - we need a round thing. A barnstar car key is certainly do-able. I like that idea. The trouble with it being a hood ornament is that we wouldn't know it was a hood ornament (as opposed to a shiney chrome barnstar) because a hood ornament is just a chrome thing with no other distinguishing features. Somehow I don't like the steering wheel suggestion. Hmmm - OK - so how about I try a car key? SteveBaker 18:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe you have to think out of the box. Try to fend off the negative feelings towards the railway barnstar and rectangular shapes - all graphic files are rectangular after all. We do not really have to make our barnstar look like all other barnstars - it's rather them that should catch up with our great design :D If the resulting design won't pass as a barnstar, why not call it something else? We might use the barnstar theme to signify that it belongs to the "Wikipedia awards" family, or not, like in the case of Wikiwings. A hood ornament can be portrayed so that the fact that it is standing on a car's bonnet is evident. Bravada, talk - 18:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

PS. How would you feel about inviting Wikipedia artists from outside of the Project to propose some more designs? Honestly, if you want to be the author of the Project's award, I believe you have the full right to it, given your contributions.

Honestly, I really don't feel any need to be the person who paints the award for the sake of fame and fortune! If anyone else wants to contribute - I'm all for that. But on the offchance that nobody does...I'm here to help. I do feel it's important for our barnstar to fit in harmoniously with all of the others - and whilst I like the railway star image a lot, I don't think it fits the bill for that reason. However, this isn't about their star - it's about ours. SteveBaker 19:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm okay with the key, but have to say I liked the wheel quite a bit better. The wheel was easier to recognize as barnstar (it's round). Regards, Signature^brendel 19:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah - I agree - but now we have opinions on both sides. I see a vote coming on - so lets make sure we have a bunch of other suggestions before we go any further. SteveBaker 20:07, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Just wanted to say that the barnkey is great! My only concern would be that perhaps not everybody would recognize it instantly as a car key. Regarding Gerd's concerns - have you ever seen a barnstar used in Wikipedia without an appropriate and obvious description?

As I see no oposition to this idea, I will try to get some WikiPedia artists to join the effort and provide more choices. Regards, Bravada, talk - 20:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely - let's get some more designs. SteveBaker 03:51, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Bravada, I know all Barnstars are clearly labeled, but for esthetic purposes it is still nice if they're easily recognizable. As I said I'm fine with the key too, but liked the wheel better-In this case I'll make things easier and would, if there is a vote, cast my vote in favor of either one. Signature^brendel 23:59, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, my sense of esthethics clearly differs, as for me it is nice that e.g. the railway barnstar is not that strikingly recognizable - I like understatement. That said, today browsing through an old seventies car catalogue, one thing struck me - the Autobianchi Primula Coupé appears to have been available with a wheel pattern strikingly resembling a 6-spoke version of our Wikipedia Barnstar! I have found the pic online (low quality, but that's what I have) - see for yourselves: [1]. Bravada, talk - 02:38, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Über Geschmack läßt sich streiten! (One could argue endlessly over taste) Signature^brendel 03:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The Geo Storm also has wheels that look like they are stars. Karrmann 02:51, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I just like the wheel first proposed, but as we all have different tastes I am also ready to vote for other proposals-the key is fine with me too. I do want to say, however, that I somehow cannot help myself but be fond of the idea of using a wheel as a barn star-I don't know, but I just like that idea. Regards, Signature^brendel 03:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The wheel I originally proposed is an actual car wheel - it was on sale on eBay. I just emailed the owner and asked if I could use the photo (Yes, I could) - then I touched up the highlights and emphasised the grooves along the arms of the star to make it look more like a barnstar. There are dozens and dozens of wheel patterns with five armed stars out there though. I like the idea of a more subtle star that's not immediately obvious. That's what I was trying for with the key. At first you see a car key - and it's only a moment or two later that you see the embossed barnstar on the bow. It's a standard GM car key - from an era just before everyone started cramming electronics and other junk into big plastic lumps. I can put this treatment onto just about any key you guys could come up with - I did some Porshe and RollsRoyce keys first - but those actually look even more plain than the GM key I finally settled on. But if you have a better key to choose from - I'm game to add the barnstar to it. SteveBaker 03:51, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay seems like we settled on a key-barnstar design (that may not be my first choise, but its fine with me). Anyways, the GM key seems allright but just to throw an idea out there-how about a Mercedes-Benz key (w/o plastic) with the MB symbol revised to look like a bartnstar. I now I want to avoid confusion I am not stating that the MB symbol should serve as the Barnstar, the symbol should be photoshopped to take on a more abstract form. This would be an interesting play on the car logo idea. Anyway, just some food for though. Regards, Signature^brendel 05:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

(reset indent again) I don't think we "settled on" anything yet - is there any rush? I think we might wait, perhaps some other people will come with other propositions, or Steve will have yet another idea. I have asked some Wikipedia artists, who designed nice barnstars before, whether they would like to submit their propositions, so I suggest we would wait for them.

As concerns the car key, now that you told me it's a GM key I can see the GM logo peeking from behind more and more :D I have no idea how the pre-electronics Mercedes key looks like, but perhaps if somebody could find an image, it would be good to try that too. Finally, I think the wheel itself is a good idea, especially not a sole rim, but a whole wheel with a tire sitting in a wheelwell. I absolutely loathe shiny Pimp-My-Ride Giovannis, but a nice-looking wheel would absolutely do the trick for me. I invite you once again to take a look at the Primula - totally accidentally, Autbianchi designers managed to incorporate the barnstar theme in a very good way! Bravada, talk - 12:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah - now you come to mention it - it does look like a ghost of the original GM logo is still there. I promise to fix that if we decide we want that image - but I don't plan to spend more time on it until/unless we do because it's already good enough to give you the idea. So far, I hear Gerdbrendel expressing a preference for the wheel - but not objecting to the key. I prefer the wheel - but could live with the key if there was a strong majority for it. I think Bravada likes the key - but so far is the only person who has actually said so. On the other hand, on the Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals/New_Proposals#Automotive_Barnstar page, there are another three people (Jared, Gray Porpoise and Digital me) who said they love the wheel graphic. So I'd say it was pretty strongly in favor of the wheel right now. We need more people contributing artwork - or at least proposing ideas that I could turn into artwork for you. SteveBaker 22:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I am pestering a number of graphic artists for contributions now, so hopefully we might have more choice. Frankly speaking, I like the CONCEPT of the wheel more, I just hate the gaudy Giovanni rim :D (not your artwork, but the base). Concerning ideas - I am still under the impression how the Autobianchi Primula wheels resemble our barnstar pattern - see here [2] and here [3]. Unfortunately, I haven't got hold of any photos of these in higher resolution (not to mention free), and my puny attempts to recreate this design ended up so that I am even more ashamed of my lack of PhotoShop talent. But if you had some spare time, perhaps you might give it a try - I would start with any five- or six-spoke rim with a reasonably thick tire on it. I tried to resize the central element of the barnstar (how do you call it?) to make it serve as a central wheelcover and it worked, it was making it all fit into an image of a wheel in a wheelwell where I had to admit defeat. Would be great if you could do that! Bravada, talk - 22:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

OKay, Danke Bravada-Ferien ist das richtige Wort ;-). Okay I still like the wheels but I see your point they are a but pimpy-I woudln't put them on my car either but they just male such a perfect barn star. Anyways-you're right what's the hurry. Regards, Signature^brendel 17:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

More Barnstar proposals

So far, we have:

But how about...

For those who wanted a 'wheel' design for the Automotive barnstar - but not the chrome wheel I did before, here is a suitably doctored Simca1000 wheel following a suggestion from Bravada over on the Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals/New_Proposals page. I'm not sure which of the cropped designs looks best. The one at the extreme left is a bit too subtle IMHO - at normal barnstar sizes it's really not obvious that it's a barnstar at all. I think the one that's second from the right is probably the best mix of "This is a Barnstar" and "This isn't obviously a barnstar until you look carefully". SteveBaker 11:31, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Today on GIMP My Ride.... :D You have even repainted the Simca - I like the color much more than the blue, actually! More seriously, these are really good! The middle two show what it's all about without compromising the quality! The only problem will be that nobody will believe anything has been modified here - your mods are immaculate! Bravada, talk - 11:52, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

<blush> Well, the blue didn't tone in with the yellowish rims - so I retinted the car. Also the resolution of the original image was poor and had been saved with a very high level of JPEG compression - so I had to smooth out the paint quite a lot so we could blow it up to a reasonable size. I juiced up the chrome a little too. Actually adding the highlights to turn the spokes on the hubcaps into stars was the easy part! I left-right mirrored it because people 'buy' highlights better when the light appears to come from above and to the right than they do when it's above and to the left...dunno why that is - it's a subtle perceptual 'kink' in our brains...but it somehow made the faked star look more convincing.

The trouble is that now I can't look at a car without seeing bloody barnstars!

The original

Argh! Barnstars!

<giggle>

I am not sure whether I want a Toyota Barnstar to be our WikiProject Award, but this is just great! I was wondering whether we could find a free high-res pic of a profile shot of a car with a similar rim/wheelcover pattern - it would be an even better base for such an award! I'll let you know if I find something, and I guess we should all now browse the Commons and perhaps also Flickr :D Bravada, talk - 12:12, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

No - I don't like the Toyota either. We could search wheel photos forever and hack dozens of them into barnstars - but it's not very productive. I personally like the Simca - it's understated. I don't think a modern car fits the bill at all, the wheels are just too boring. Something older is more to my taste - but then I am restoring a 1963 Mini and a 1972 VW Bug - so the Simca is right in the ballpark for my tastes. I looked at things like Model T Ford wheels - you could stick a barnstar into one of those fairly easily - but close-up, it looks like a cart-wheel and it just doesn't scream "CAR!" at you like the Simca wheel does.

But there must be some actual artists out there who could do us a good job...it would be nice to see some contributions from other people. SteveBaker 12:49, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually I am all for the Simca Barnstar (or perhaps 1000 GL Barnstar?), I was just worried about more universal support :D But for now, there are two support votes and opposition :D As concerns other artists, I have pestered a number of people who I have seen doing really good graphic design stuff on WP, and by now I have only received either no answer or a negative one (including being informed that a person doesn't like cars!). I have myself made an attempt on the Simca, and the catastrophic results convinced me that I am not at all skilled in this area :D Bravada, talk - 13:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The Simca wheel is the best suggestion so far. It needs a better version of course. Does it have to be a star? The Spirit of Ecstasy nest to a Mercedes star is my suggestion. Rolls Royce is traditionally considered automotive perfection. --Dahlis 22:04, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

OK - I'm up for criticism. You say the Simca star "needs a better version" - could you tell me what you don't like about it - maybe I can fix up whatever issues you have with it.

Does it have to be a star? Well, yes and no. Each project (and indeed, anyone who feels like it) can award any damned thing they like to whomever they like for whatever they like...and people do. But the five pointed 'barnstar' is a long-standing Wikipedia tradition and every single award on the WP:Barnstar page is a star. Some effort goes into making them look nice and to having them fit into the overall 'theme'. So whilst you - and this project - can award any darned thing it likes - what I would like to see is an automotive barnstar...and that has to be a star.

As for Nelly in her nighty and a Mercedes star - we have to be reasonably careful not to infringe on trademark and copyrights for these things - which IMHO rules both of those out no matter what. There are no fair use provisions that would apply here. SteveBaker 01:23, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I do like the Simca wheels-but think it would be better to have a picture that is not at an angle. As for the cooperative symbols-this can easily erupt into a POV war (Tell a BMW driver that his car is not "perfection" and explain why only an MB star and Nelly in her nighty are featured-we should abstain from using any type of coperate logo-the barnstar should be neutral. Regards, Signature^brendel 02:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I doubt that the NPOV rules apply to user pages - which is the only place where Barnstars appear - but at any event, we agree that corporate logos would be a bad idea. I can look for a Simca 1000GT photo taken from square-on - but I thought the idea here was to make the star less 'in your face' and more subtly hidden in the photo. A three quarter view does a better job of that IMHO. SteveBaker 03:07, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Steve on both accounts. Just a sidenote - this image (it's a Simca 1000 GL not GT btw, the "luxury" version, the "sporty" version was Rallye) is the only free one I have seen of a Simca 1000 with those wheelcovers, so I guess there aren't too many of them with this pattern. Simca 1301s seem, however, to have been getting those standard, and perhaps some 1501s. Bravada, talk - 19:39, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the simca star would look better in a picture that is not in an angle. I do like that fact that the star is a bit less "in your face". But i think a head on photo would look better . --Dahlis 15:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

BTW, I have to take back my words - I must've been having some delusions. Quite many Simcas were actually fitted with those wheelcovers. Examples: [4], [5], [6]. Btw, all the pics from Garage de l'Est are now fully available for use in Wikipedia again, I have cleared it out with Mr. Stedehouder and he agrees for everybody to use it for any purpose, which includes us and uploading it to the Commons. An example how to do that with all the appropriate tags and stuff: [:commons:Image:1964 Simca 1500.jpg]. I hope you will find one of these images more befitting for the Silver Wheelcover Award :D Bravada, talk - 18:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, those photos are certainly more square-on - but they don't have that nice cream-coloured rim (which makes the car look very 1950's) and the hubcaps aren't so shiney. I'll see what I can do with them tonight. I might try sticking one of those wheels into the existing image so it looks like the steering wheel has been turned to make the wheel face the camera. Dunno...I'll see what happens when I have them in GIMP and can play around a bit. SteveBaker 18:34, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I played around a bit with the three 'more square on' Simca images and nothing I came up with really pleased me in any way worth showing - the images just didn't jump out of the screen at me and scream "AWARD". They just kinda sat there and look like a boring old car wheel. If anyone else can do a good job with them - that would be a good thing. But right now, I'm happier with the more diagonal view of the red car with the cream wheel. SteveBaker 04:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

One note

Since y'all are developing this award here instead of on the Award Proposal page I just wanted to bring a couple of things to your attention. The consensus on the WikiProject Awards (which this appears to be) is that only things listed on the Barnstar page are called Barnstars. Everything else is called an award or a star. Just an FYI. If you're making a topical barnstar for automotive related issues, I would suggest moving this debate to the proposal page. Finally, most of the awards listed on the two aformentioned pages tend to focus on the star image. --evrik 02:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, so does Steve's "Simca Barnstar". Some of the Project "stars" (actually only one of the project awards is not called a star, and some are still called Barnstars) look like travestations (travesties?) of the original barnstars, but some simply incorporate the star theme in this way or another, like the Military history WikiProject Award or Indigenous American Star. I think Steve's design is right on spot with regard to that. That said, if we aren't supposed to call it a "barnstar", I believe it could be even more appropriately referred to as "Silver Wheelcover"! Bravada, talk - 03:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I started the discussion over on the barnstar page - and was told to move the discussion here! My impression is that a discussion of which image we want should happen here first - and when we have consensus, it should go over to the Barnstar talk page to get a final "OK" from the community at large. Now, as to whether the star images we've been looking at "count" as barnstars is a different matter. Most of the barnstars in current use are pretty much square-on obvious images of the barnstar - but the railroad proposal isn't. It's much more subtle...and a vast majority of people here like that. So the idea of having the classic barnstar appearing embedded into another image is an up-coming thing. Should we call that a barnstar? Hell yes! We've gone to a lot of trouble to incorporate the classic star image into our award. Life would have been a lot easier if I hadn't had to do that! The fact that it's recognisably a barnstar - to people outside of the automotive group - is very important to me - and the fact that it will ultimately appear in the list of standard awards on the barnstar page is also very important. Whether the participants at the barnstar talk page will agree is unknown (although they seem to like the railroad star and nobody complained about my chrome wheel star). However, I'm 100% sure that this group doesn't want something as boring as "The standard brown star with a car stuck in front of it". So - let's let the process work itself out. Let's come to a consensus here - then move it to barnstar talk - and get a vote on it there. If we fail at either of those stages, we'll find some more images and go around again. SteveBaker 17:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

• So...it's all gone quiet. No more contributions for an Automotive Barnstar? Should we move to a vote? SteveBaker 01:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

• I like the key and the third of the tire photos, as well. The chrome Barnstar looks interesting... could you do a version that makes it "transparent"? (Meaning clearing the "spaces" between the circle and the spokes of the star) and give it a shadow : ) - Jc37 15:20, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• • I did try removing the black areas between the spokes - but it somehow didn't look like a car wheel afterwards. It looked more like a 'Sheriff' badge from an old-style cowboy movie. I like the third of the 'tire' photos too. Sadly, the impetus has gone out of the discussion. We really need some more artists to participate. Once I find something I really like, I find it hard to get the energy to make anything else! SteveBaker 16:44, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• • • Nod, I agree. It does look like a sheriff's badge. Perhaps it needs some lugnuts : ) - Jc37 16:52, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• • • • Not that this makes a good Barnstar - but I found this bumper sticker you guys might like: SteveBaker 20:38, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it.

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The Automotive Barnstar may be awarded to an editor who contributes significantly to expand or improve Wikipedia's coverage of Automobiles. The award was proposed and designed by SteveBaker 2006 following a suggestion by Bravada.

Note: This image was recently approved as the award for WikiProject Automobiles.

• Neutral I don't think the image is in keeping with the rest of the barnstars listed here Wikipedia:Barnstars#Topical_barnstars. There has generally been a different set of standards for WikiProject Awards than for barnstars. What does everyone else thing? -evrik 02:05, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose It really doesn't fit and might ruin the quality at the barnstars page, it already does in the WikiProject awards page. Michaelas10 06:07, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose Barnstar, suggest WP Award.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:08, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

From my talk page:

I removed the Automotive Award from the topical Barnstar page because I think it was placed there prematurely. There has generally been a different set of standards for WikiProject Awards than for barnstars. I made a couple of comments on the proposal page earlier about the difference between a WikiProject Award and a Barnstar. I will note that the majority of the development of the Award was done at the WikiProject Automoblie pages - which is fine for that type of award. Since the barnstar pages have been devloped there has been a clear move to limit the number of barnstars, or to enable poeple to create awards that fit their needs.

SteveBaker, if you want to propose a barnstar, then you have to do it here, and it has to be vetted by the community. The process may be vague and unevenly applied, but there are some loose standards. I hope that explaisn my actions. --evrik 17:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Oppose - the award's image is good as it is. --Gray Porpoise 02:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

• I think the award should be changed back to its original proposal. Yes, I know it has been highly supported by other Wikipedians and by the WikiProject, but.. doesn't anyone see how unfit it looks on WikiProject awards page? It completely ruins the quality of the page. Michaelas10 17:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
• What purpoise are you referring to? We tried to make it clear from the beginning that it was a WikiProject Award ... and not a barnstar. --evrik 18:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
• The original propose was the wheel shaped silver star. I understand its not a barnstar but it doesn't fit as a WikiProject award, mostly because all the other awards have a direct view of the star and a good quality, attractive designing. If this award will not be changed, it should at least be moved to the PUA page. Michaelas10 18:31, 27 September 2006 (UTC)