Talk:Fist of the North Star
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[edit] What is Hokuto no Ken?
Hokuto No Ken (aka Fist of the North Star, Hokuto Shinken) is a Japanese comic book (i.e., a manga), written by Buronson and drawn by Tetsuo Hara. It was serialized for several years in a manga magazine in the 1980's. It has been one of the most famous and infamous manga ever to come from Japan. It has influenced several other artists, such as Kentarou Miura, creator of Berserk. It's also become one of the most parodied manga stories in Japan: anime as Project A-Ko were parodying Hokuto no Ken long before parodies were in vogue in Japanese cartoons; Excel Saga, an anime devoted to parody, devoted a whole episode to its Hokuto no Ken parody; and even as recently as 2004, Super Milk Chan was spotted making its own shot at Hokuto no Ken on Cartoon Network. Most often parodied is the main character's ability to make his opponents heads explode, and his catchphrase "Omaewa mou shindeiru," (Trans. "You are already dead"), which he says in the space between using his special attacks and their ultra-gruesome delayed effects. Hokuto no Ken has been spun off into several cartoons and video games of wildly varying quality, with fans agreeing that most of the spinoffs are woefully inadequate compared to the original, for various debatable reasons. There was even an American made live action movie version that is generally regarded by everyone in the entire world to be absolutely and completely execrable. Because of the diluted quality of Fist of the North Star in its American releases (A mediocre anime movie, and two incomplete translations of the comic book, plus several lame video games) and the bizarre, explicit gore have combined to hurt Fist of the North Star's reputation in the U.S. market. Very few people take it seriously here, and many have based unfavorable conclusions about Fist of the North Star on its inferior translations in other media. However, Fist of the North Star still maintains a small but rabid following in the United States.
Worthy of note is the fact the largest concentration of the series' fans outside of Japan, and possibly including Japan, is Italy. This extends to the Italian-speaking parts of the internet as well. Anyone who speaks Italian well and wants to know more about Fist of the North Star should be aware that they have a considerable advantage in being able to access the vast, Italian-speaking fan community of the internet without relying on almost-useless translation technologies like Babelfish.
[[[User:Bartery|Bartery]] 21:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC)]Some of what goes on in Hokuto no Ken will only be appreciated by people who have spent some time in Japan - there are some aspects that would be more familiar to and more appreciated by an Oriental audience. An additional issue in Western countries during the mid eighties was the influence of political correctness gone too far on people's attitudes to the fighting arts. Beyond the fighting, the actual storylines revolve around how the characters deal with sorrow, loss, bereavement, sacrifice, the effects of radiation poisoning, etc. The proposition that the world might descend into such disorder as depicted in Hokuto no Ken following a nuclear holocaust are not remote. Anime such as Hokuto no Ken have been very influential on franchises such as the Matrix trilogy - the fight between Kenshiro and Han in the second series in particular.
[edit] Removal of style names?
Can I ask why someone apparently removed the style translations, Minor Nanto stylenames, and which style went to which character?
Seems as though someone deleted a lot of the Hokuto no Ken styles in particular.
--Bartery 04:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)The problem with Wikipedia is that even this discussion page can be hacked and erased, meaning that even if someone did go to the trouble of correcting something or improving on the article, by tomorrow it could all be gone again.
There are plenty of other sources on the web for authentic fans or studiers of the series.
The people writing about Hokuto no Ken in Wikipedia are not always likely to care enough about detail to investigate properly or get things right.
The Wikipedia French and Italian articles on Hokuto no ken are very short, but also not written by people who are particularly fond of the original Japanese series and comics. The Japanese site is, as you would expect, more extensive.
[edit] Under the Styles header...
Why does the "Hokuto Shinken" sub-article seem more like a group of character bios than a description of the fighting style? It's also lacking a list and description of some of the techniques. gh
[edit] Quotes
Somewhat unrelated, but would a list of memorable quotes that the series is known for ("You're already dead") be acceptable? I got into the series because I wanted to see how ridiculous it was.
- OK, I started an entry in Wikiquote. Hopefully some jerk doesn't delete it. But if they have Pokemon quotes in there, Hokuto no Ken should be a shoe-in. Evan1975 01:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] New Images
Just wanted to say those are very nice additions. -- James26 06:17, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Japanese translation conflicts -please read this note before editing-
Since i've introduced japanese characters few days ago in the article (only Hokuto no Ken was written in the intro paragraph and that's all) in the Games and Characters' paragraph, several people are now conflicting about phonetics and translation adding or removing words, some people are now adding japanese characters for the OVA names too. Is it Yuria or Julia, is it Souther or Thouther, is it Raoh or Raou, etc. The main reason why I've introduced japanese characters in the article was to help fans selecting import products (Games) within the vast lineup when shopping online. As some Hokuto no Ken characters have a different name in the Japanese original version (within games, manga or anime) than the one used in the US or other countries as well (exemple: both Raoh & Raou forms are used in Japan, while Raoh is used in the US localisation and "Raoul" -french old fashioned name- is even used in France! The character named Yuda's true name is actually "Judas" (spelled "Juda" in France with a silent "S" which is pronounced in English), he's a traitor as the original Judas. The Japanese uses "ユダ" (spelled "Yuda") probably with the Portugese spelling (see Japan's History) because the Catholic religion was introduced in Japan by the Portugese in their language, hence the Japanese phonetics and writting used for Judas/Yuda. if Judas was introduced by the English it would became "ユダッシー" (pronounced with a long S like "Judass").As for "Julia", her actual Japanese name is "Yuria" (real Japanese and Slavish name) as seen on licensed products. In the West (USA & France versions) the traductors have located her name as "Julia". If her original name was "ジューリア" or "ジュリア" it would have been Julia (spelled with the American pronunciation "Djoo-lia" while the French pronunciation is "Jhue-lia"), but the fact is her official Japanese name is "ユリア" which is Yuria. The Souther character is called "Thouther" in Japan, e.g. in the latest Sammy licensed video game released in december 2005 in Japan, on top of his life gauge, is written "Thouther" not "Souther". I've used "Aka" short for "Also Known As" (or "alias") in the Characters section to clarify a Hokuto no Ken character's name in both the Japanese and American versions, for exemple "Yuda" (USA/France versions) is Also Known As "Judas" in Japan; Same goes for Julia/Yuria and Souther/Thouther. Translation form: Raō (ラオウ, Raou, Raoh), with "Raō" the Hepburn romanization, "ラオウ" the hiragana/kanji/katakana form (here's it's katakana), "Raou" a valid translation (used in Japan on licensed products) and "Raoh" the other valid translation (also used in Japan on licensed products). Both Japanese romanization forms are used in Japan though they are different than the Hepburn one. Hepburn is based on English phonology while the others (the one i personally used) are based on the Japanese phonology and valid in Japan and worldwide since the Hepburn system is just one phonology among others, exemple there is also a French phonology "Raô"... The "oh" and "ou" Japanese forms are as valid as the Hepburn "ō" and the "ô" French form (there should be other different phonologies as well, since the world is vast and not limited to the US nor France). This is the reason why they shouldn't be removed from the article, the Hepburn system is not THE unique VALID phonology, because if travelling Japan or visiting Japanese websites you'll not face Hepburn (ō) but Japanese forms ("ou" and "oh") instead! What i try to mean is the Hepburn system has a limited use and efficiency, and we should accept the Japanese forms as the universal valid and official ones with the Hepburn system as an hint to understand. About the Goodies section, i've created this new section to illustrate the Fist of the North Star pop phenomenon, but also as a solid and verifiable source for the phonology i've used on ambiguated characters: as you can see on the Shitajiki gallery picture is mentioned "Jyagi" (not Jagi), "Raou" (not Raoh), "Bat" (not Batto nor Bart) and the "Yuria zippo" has "Yuria" written instead of Julia. Thanks for reading this note, hope it helps in the Japanese translation disambiguation. Feel free to comment it and apply it when editing the main article. EnthusiastFRANCE 19:27, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
I would argue that the translation of the term "Ken" (拳) as "fist" is a poor one. I know that this seems to have been the translation ever since the first series was translated to English, but in actual usage, I would say it translates to something closer to "fighting style", "fighting discipline", or some such thing. When Ken talks about "Omae no ken wa . . ." he is talking about his opponents fighting discipline or style, not their fist. Thus, we would have "North Star Fighting Style", etc. Or perhaps "Method", although this is very pedestrian. When Jujitsu, Karate, etc are discussed, we usually talk about them in terms of being methods of self defence, fighting methods, etc. Bartery 20:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I have to agree... The translation of "ken" as "fist" isn't right, even though it shares its kanji with "kobushi", which does indeed literally translate as "fist". It is indeed having to do with "fighting style" or "discipline", and the term "fist" itself is just a general term meaning a fighting style. As such, I think that "North Star Fighting Style" is definitely a more sound translation. "Fist" is not correct because it does not mean the same thing as what it does in Japanese, as most English speakers would not refer to their fighting style as a "fist". One could say that it's still correct; however, "Fighting Style" is just much more suitable. Automatisch 14:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Hokuto no Ken Inconsistencies
Should these be brought up? Hokuto no Ken 2 was generally forcefully done in order to gain more money/ play on the popularity of 1, and hence there were plot issues since they really didn't care. Pardon my explanation's subjectivity, but:
1. Raoh and Toki are shown at their parent's grave sites, which are presumely somewhere near where Ryuken's temple is (at least on the same continent). Ryuken said he promised their parents that he'd take one child. However... in the Shura Island arc, we see that Raoh and Toki are from Shura Island, their mother was burried in a Swamp there, and apparently they were given to Ryuken by Juukei.
- This part was pretty much a huge retcon, but i've always guessed that the only logical explanation would be that Raoh and Toki were taken care of by foster parents for a few years and taught some basic martial arts (seeing that Raoh does look much older and more muscular in the scene where he first met Ryuken compared to when he was being sent off from Shura Island, as well as how easily he was able to fling aside the huge tree that fell on Toki.) before being taken in by Ryuken. Kenshiro was most probably taken care of by someone else as well and was later sent to Ryuken when he was old enough. By the way i'm only basing all this from the manga as i've not watched the anime so i don't know if the scenes are the same. What do you guys think? BladeRN 08:30, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
2. Kenshiro is from Shura Island. And yet, Fist of the Blue Sky clearly shows Kenshiro being brought into the temple by a woman and named Kenshiro there. And yet... he is shown already having his name in Kaioh's flashback.
3. Another contradiction, this time Hokuto no Ken 2 contradiction itself rather then other parts of the manga. Succession in Hakuto Shinken is doing by selection by the former master, and Kenshiro admits that Toki/ Raoh would have been better suited to succeed (Toki would have if he wasn't sick, and Raoh would have if he wasn't so hungry for power). The legend Juukei and Kaioh further on Shura Island is that Raoh will return and, in Juukei's belief, will come and free the nation. However, once Kenshiro shows up we get thrown into all this "pure blood of the original Hokuto" stuff, that only the pure blood of the original Hokuto in Kenshiro will be able to beat Kaioh, and Kaioh states he hates that blood. And yet... the earlier stated belief was that Raoh would be able to beat Kaioh with his strength, pure blood not even mentioned. Now this chould be just put as "Well Kenshiro needs the original fist of Hokuto to beat Kaioh while Raoh could have just like crushed him", which doesn't make alot of sense seeing as how Kenshiro has clearly shown he's able to do pretty much all that Raoh can other then the fact that he lacks Raoh's ki deal. --Zorak 08:22, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
- The legend about Raoh returning to defeat Kaioh was created by Kaioh himself not Juukei. Most probably he knows that no matter what Raoh will still not be strong enough to defeat him and the legend was created just to make people have hope in something which he knows he can then look forward to destroy. Juukei believed in Raoh to return and free the nation because it is only natural of him to put his hopes on Raoh since he was the eldest among the 3 boys sent off the island. He never expected that the younger Kenshiro will be able to surpass Raoh instead. BladeRN 08:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 69kb too long article: time for a split article?
since the Game section is now huge and the main article "too long" , don't you think it's time to create a split article dedicated to the Fist of the North Star games? Basic cut & paste of "Game"/"Game Periph"/"Pachislot Mach"/"Pachinko Mach"/"External Links" (related)/"Media Links" (related)/ to a new "Fist of the North Star games" article!? :)
- I think all the styles should go to a new article too, since people new to FOTNS wouldn't care about the names of the styles they use. deadkid_dk 23:50, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Anime Series Q&A
- Please explain the following(Unable to translate):
Why was Kaioh not originally allowed by Jukkei to become Hokuto Ryuken successor? Kaioh was born from a lower status of the Hokuto line and was not deemed as "worthy" to become the successor also his descendant are to serve true blood Hokuto descendants. Hence in paper Hyoh is the Hokuto Ryuken successor while Kaioh is just a Generalismo of Ashura.
Why did Kaioh hate Hyouh? Kaioh has a love/hate feelings towards Hyouh, they where close friends since childhood. However after the death of Kaioh's mother (whom went to rescue baby Kenshiro from a burning house), he started to grow hatred towards the Hokuto bloodline. Also he wanted to change his fate from being a servant all the time, another reason is that Hokuto Ryuken consumed his hatred that demonized him at the end. Another reason for hatred towards the Hokuto bloodline could be because of Jukkei used to punish Kaioh severly just to remind Kaioh that he is "Born as a servant for the Hokuto". Hence thats why Jukkei died with regret at the end blaming on himself.
Was Kaioh of the Hokuto bloodline? Yes, Kaioh got the North star birthmark on his head (hidden beneath his hair), which was revealed during a duel with Kenshiro.
Please remember that the Ted Buronson storyline sometimes doesn't make sense or leaves a lot of plot holes that are inconsistent with the current script (one famous example is the continuity with the Sixth Nanto Seiken clan).
- Kaio was indeed from the Hokuto Souke bloodline, but no one (including Kaioh) knew until Kenshiro told him.
What exactly is meant by Hokuto bloodline? Are they all cousins/brothers/uncles?
Ummmm....How can Kaioh be born to be a servant of Hokuto when his real brothers are in competition to be Hokuto Shin Ken successors? (Perhaps this is another continutity problems
Is Kenshiro related to Raoh/Toki/Kaioh? They must be related in some way since they are have the Hokuto blood
A simple answer to your question, its "Continuity problem". Anyways you can say Ken is "related" to Raoh/Toki/Kaioh (sort of like long lost cousins), I think Buronson had problems with his script problem during this season (I personally got confused with the storyline during the Ashura episode).
- Kenshiro & Hyo are decendants of the Hokuto Shin Ken founder Shuken. Kaio, Rao, Toki, Sayaka are decendants of Shuken's cousin Ryuo. According to the anime, Ryuo is the founder of Hokuto Ryu Ken.
What about Jagi? A shame that so little info is there about his origins. He was made to look like a goofball too, again a shame. Who is Ryu's mother? In the Anime it seems that Raoh and Tou had a relationship once.
- I don't think this has been revealed yet, but his mother is almost certainly going to end up being Reina from the Raoh movie and Youkow Osada's manga.
- If understood correctly, according to the Japanese Wikipedia, Buronson originally intended Yuria to be Ryu's mother, but the editors at Shonen Jump disliked the idea of having Raoh impregnate Yuria with his own offspring. Hence why Ryu's mother is never revealed. Jonny2x4 17:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
- I saw that on Japanese Wikipedia, too, but I don't know what their source for that is. It doesn't really make any sense, either. Anyways, we'll see where they go with this in the new movies. Evan1975 05:37, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- If understood correctly, according to the Japanese Wikipedia, Buronson originally intended Yuria to be Ryu's mother, but the editors at Shonen Jump disliked the idea of having Raoh impregnate Yuria with his own offspring. Hence why Ryu's mother is never revealed. Jonny2x4 17:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Alternate plots, alternate endings seem to be the rule in remakes, and especially in adaptations. When the original Star Trek series was rendered into story adaptations and published in books by James Blish, there were notable differences between what happened on screen and what went on in the books. Many Trekkies were unhappy with that, but Blish explained that the action on screen did not always adapt well to stories, and that also he was working from the original scripts, not from what ended up in the final TV show takes. See also Continuity (fiction) --Bartery 23:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Movie Question (spoiler)
Yuria survives her captivity and is successfully rescued by Ken in the end of the movie.
Is this actually the case? I've seen two versions of the movie (the ones with the differences between the Ken/Roah battles) but haven't noticed this. James26 02:24, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Split this!
Geez, I could see about 5 sub-articles branching off of this thing. It needs some serious split work.--SeizureDog 21:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
aaaaa that's a bad idea...it's one topic....keep it together so people looking for the topic can find what they need. It's not unreasonably long. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.215.159.191 (talk • contribs).
aaaaa no reasonably sane person would want to read this big chunk of text, I support the split. It's twice the suggestive size for an article, for christ's sake. _dk 00:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with the split idea. It's good so when someone is searching for this, he'll find what he's looking for.
It should absolutely be split. Read Wikipedia:Summary style. Recury 14:20, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Split it. It could use some work too. Right after a synopsis of the story there's a whole pile of useless information about parts, filled with characters which haven't even been introduced. The argument saying 'when someone is searching for this, he'll find what he's looking for', because it is very easy to make other pages and links. --Soetermans 20:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I also vote for splitting. The Japanese wiki has a seperate entry for Fist of the North Star characters, plus seperate entries for Hokuto Shin Ken, Gento Kō Ken, Hokuto Ryū Ken, Hokuto Sōke, and for Keiraku Hikō pressure points. For some reason, no Nanto Sei Ken entry yet. Evan1975 20:35, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- About splitting this, I have suggestions-
Adaptations-> Split into Fist of The North Star (series) and Fist of The North Star (movie) RedEyesMetal 12:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't seen any need of splitting this article for now. It merely needs a good cleanup. I've eliminated the useless trivia section and most of the external links, and the pages looks better now. Jonny2x4 00:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Kenshiro's Fighting Style
"Hokuto Shinken," Kenshiro's fighting style, looks like a combination of Tae Kwan Do and Wing Chung Kung Fu. Any obsessive anime fans keen on fighting like Kenshiro then, should take up Tae Kwan Do and Wing Chung Kung Fu. Maybe you'll even get a movie deal! lol.
I personally liked this anime but, between the old and new versions, the series "New Fist of The North Star" captures the essence of the comic book much better. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.63.78.98 (talk) 02:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC).
Since Kenshiro is a tribute to Bruce Lee, his fighting style could be based on Jet Kun Do, in which it is also a mixture of all sort of martial art (Tae Kwan Do and Wing Chun included!) add in some medicinal acupuncture knowledge and there you got Hokuto Shinken. hanchi) March 7 2007
[edit] Korean Fist of the Northstar??
As I was checking around in Youtube, somehow I happened to come across a "live action" Hokuto No Ken opening made by Korea... the opening is somewhat campy and seems to be made in early 1990, Anyways this make me think, did Korea made a live action TV series based on this comic? To check it out yourself, go to Youtube and type this 北斗の拳韓国の実写版冒頭 . Can anybody who seen this verify if this is either a "fan made" opening or a real production made tv serie? (Somehow although campy if this is real tv series, I really need to check it out! Just for laugh.)
(hanchi) 19:22 Swedish time, March 6, 2007
- It was a real production and it was featured on Hey! Spring of Trivia. The segment implied that the show was produced without permission from the original copyright holder. --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 20:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
