Talk:Hen Ogledd
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Hen comes first in Welsh; this should be Yr Hen Ogledd.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.240.122.161 (talk • contribs).
- But perhaps not in Brythonic? ..dave souza, talk
The term is in Welsh and Welsh is a Brythonic Language. Changing- see http://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymraeg. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.102.27.175 (talk • contribs) 00:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Not a reliable source and unconvincing to a non welsh speaker, but google backs it up, so moved. ..dave souza, talk 09:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Not to split hairs, but yr hen Ogledd is not Old Welsh. It's what Modern Welsh speakers call the region that was called gogled in Old Welsh (one d), at least in this transcription of the Gododin poem. You meant proto-Brythonic, I take it, dave souza?
- I couldn't swear to this, but I thought that if hen followed the noun it meant 'ancient', whereas if it preceded the noun it just meant 'old'. Still, the only people on the web saying Gogledd hen are Wikipedia mirrors, so hen Ogledd seems better. QuartierLatin1968
20:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
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- The map in Skene's Four Ancient Books of Wales just says Y Gogledd. Rather more recently McQuarrie ("The Kings of Strathclyde" in Grant & Stringer, Medieval Scotland, 1993) and Koch ("The Place of Y Gododdin in the History of Scotland", Celtic Connections: Proceedings of the tenth ICCS, 1999) use only Gwŷr y Gogledd, for which there are lots of gbooks hits of varying degrees of reliability. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, it used to just be called 'the North' (y Gogledd), and you can still say this if the historical context is clear. But the reason for calling it the old North is that North Wales would otherwise come to people's minds... (or just the generic North as a cardinal point). QuartierLatin1968 00:00, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
