Talk:Hussein bin Ali, Sharif of Mecca
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[edit] Sharif or Sherif
Sherif Hussein's bio page has him a Sherif of Mecca, whereas Sharif of Meccapage has a differnent spelling; is it possible to reconcile the differences? Nobs 17:28, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
This sentence: "This aggravated his conflict with Ibn Saud, with whom he had fought before WWI on the side of the Ottomans in 1910", is ambiguous. Who was on the "the side of the Ottomans, Sherif Hussein or Ibn Saud?. thx.Nobs01 16:49, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Or both of them?
[edit] Page name?
I am planning to make a large number of redirects to this page. However, I want to make sure we have the right page name before I get started. Should it be Sherif or Sharif? ibn Ali or bin Ali? Should we even call him Sharif at all (there's more than one Sharif Hussein ibn Ali, anyway), or should we call him Hussein ibn Ali, Emir of Mecca or ..., King of the Hijaz or something? - Nat Krause 18:30, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- The whole question of honorifics and titles in article titles is difficult. I myself prefer to have just the NAME and leave any titles for the article itself to explain. Otherwise you'll have people arguing about whether the article should be Muhammad or Prophet Muhammad or Apostle of God Muhammad, or whatever.
- If we just do the name, we're going to have to have a disambiguation page, since there must be millions of Muslims, alive and deceased, named Hussein ibn Ali or Hussein bin Ali -- or Husseyn bin Ali, Hossein bin Ali, or other transliterations. Zora 20:55, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
The NC prefers (actually directs) to use the highest title. Thus, he should be King of Hejaz (or how the kingdom's name is correctly written). 217.140.193.123 19:47, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
- For one thing, it's not clear to me that "King of Hejaz" is really a higher rank than "Sharif of Mecca", since the latter is partly a religious title while the former is purely secular. For another, the naming conventions also state, "Where a monarch has reigned over a number of states, use the most commonly associated ones." I think it's pretty clear that Hussein bin Ali is better known as a Sharif than as a King. For this reason, I am moving the page back to its previous location. - Nat Krause 02:08, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
If you regard Sharif as a religious title, then you should apply NC parts that deal with religious figures, such as clerics. If Sharif however is a monarch, it is clearly lower than king, and should be trated as such, contrary to your assertion. As Hussein himself assumed the kingly title after being a number of years the sharif, they obviously themselves regarded king higher. (Btw, I found a piece of text which says that Sharif of Mecca was a secular title: "In 1924 Hussein abdicated his secular titles to his eldest son, Ali bin Hussein, who was to become the last Grand Sharif".) However, his Caliph title would be yet higher, but that could be problematic, as we are not to endorse pretensions. Btw, the number of years a person was known as something does not count, it is superseded by the principle "use highest title". Otherwise, we would have Edward, Prince of Wales instead of Edward VII of the United Kingdom. Therefore your claim that "is better known as Sharif than as king" is worthless, as far as it is based on number of years he was known as one and of the other. Btw, the monarchical heading actually should not have a title if Hussein was king. Arrigo 10:31, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
