Talk:J.K. Rowling/Archive 04

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Richest woman? 2 Translation 3 Religion 4 Ghost writer accusation 5 Rowling's ethnicity 6 South Gloucestershire, Avon or Gloucestershire? 7 Her name 8 Rowling Gate 9 The mysterious biography in references 10 J.K. or J. K.? 11 Just to be clear... 12 "Female authors who wrote under male or gender-neutral pseudonyms" 13 Vandalism 14 Origin of the Harry Potter Character

Richest woman?

How does she rank in terms of the world's richest women? I know she past the Queen of England, but I have my doubts about Oprah. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 17:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

She has barely $1 billion, which puts her on the Forbes list, but not very high up at all. Serendipodous 10:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Forbes magazine in 2006 listed four women among its 25 richest individuals -- Liliane Bettencourt, daughter of the founder of L'Oreal cosmetics, and the widow, daughter, and daughter-in-law of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton. The estimated wealth of each ranges from $15.7 to $16.0 billion (US). Oprah Winfrey is estimated at $1.5 billion; J. K. Rowling at $1.0 (#746 on the Forbes' list of richest people, which doesn't sort by sex). — OtherDave 13:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

How is it that Rowling has got so rich so quickly? Writers like Stephen King (who has been writing bestsellers since the 1970s and has had many books made into movies) have not made as much money as Rowling.192.139.140.243 03:51, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

King's individual sales are nowhere near the level of the Potter books; the fifth volume sold 5 million copies in the U.S. on its first day, thanks in no small part to "pre-ordering;" the sixth sold nearly 7 million on its first day. Total sales of her books passed 250 million in 2003, reportedly. Also, while several King books have been turned into films, few have had the mass audience appeal or opportunity for related products like games, toys, or clothing, that the Potter books have had. — OtherDave 13:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you OtherDave. Where can I go to find out information on an author's sales or a specific book's sales, or on the net worth of an author? Articles on Wikipedia do not typically contain this kind of down-and-dirty info. 192.139.140.243 08:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I found Rowling's sales figures in newspaper archives (googling things like "Rowling" and "sales," then poking around a bit). The Forbes estimates are just that -- estimates -- so take them with some skepticism. That said, which writer gets wealthy from writing isn't necessarily an indicator of the artistic value of the writing; it's more a measure of a match between the writing and a market for the writing. King writes in the horror genre; like the mystery genre, that's a reliable niche but not necessarily one that will propel him into billionaire status. Rowling's books are for a potentially much larger audience: children (say 8 - 14 years as a generalization), and the parents/relatives/well-wishers of such children. That's also a market that renews itself every six or eight years (an entire new crop of 8- to 14-year-olds), a characteristic that companies like Disney have capitalized on for generations. (For whatever it's worth, www.horrorking.com, a King fan site, claims on a page dated July 2006 that he has "over 100 million copies" in print.) I suppose you might also try checking press releases on a publisher's site, to see if they were bragging about the sales of one of their writers. — OtherDave 15:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Translation

I translated the german wikipedia article and it can be found HERE. It's somewhat informative (but probably riddled with spellling errors) but I'm not sure if it will really actully help at all. I wouldn't have made it a featured artcle. Dark jedi requiem 09:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Featured articles in other languages are held to a lower standard. That article's actually a lot better now than it was when it was first featured, and it seems to have been "de-featured" since then. I read it in Google translation, and it seemed to draw a lot of its information from an unauthorised biography by a British tabloid journalist named Sean Smith. (not that it cited any of its sources) Luckily a lot of that "info" was taken out, yet it still, rather infuriatingly, claims that Rowling came up with the idea for Harry Potter after reading Neil Gaiman's "Books of Magic", which Rowling denies and even Gaiman has claimed was unlikely. I'd appreciate it if someone with a better grasp of German grammar could take that down.Serendipodous 09:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I've deleted that clause. The german article is currently marked as "worth reading" which is less than "excellent". The article here is clearly much better, in particular because of the references. --80.129.111.115 22:14, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Religion

Shouldn't there be something in here about the religion contraversy? It is a big part of Harry Potter and J.K.'s effect on the world. And what about J.K.'s own Religion?

DISCUSS!

No. Religion is dealt with in the Harry Potter article. Rowling's personal religious views have nothing to do with the manufactured controversy. She has remained very closed about her religious beliefs and any discussion of them in this article would be speculation. Serendipodous 19:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I was afraid of that. I wasn't able to personally discover much about her religion. Nothing that I can back up with fact. but from what I have read she went to Church while she was growing up. and the Harry Potter books certainly share some very strong themes with Christianity.

• According to this Washington Post article, Rowling is a member of the Church of Scotland, or at least she was as of sometime in the 1990s. --Metropolitan90 01:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• According to the Telegraph and Tatler interviews, Rowling is a Christian (Episcopalian), which is the term for the Church of Scotland in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury. [1] - Homagetocatalonia

Ghost writer accusation

Film director sparks debate over origins of 'Harry Potter' Silly, too much beer? Yes. But's it's a verifyable source. Where in the article could this be mentioned? Under the Hary Potter books? --GunnarRene 17:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Since it's complete lunacy, I doubt it really has a place anywhere. As Rowling says in her debunking of the rumour on her webpage, anyone who thinks this could possibly be true has never heard of the British tabloid press. If they haven't found it out, it's not worth knowing. Serendipodous 21:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

It's verifiable lunacy though. Perhaps the best "debunk" is to note that Rowling has an OBE, and that only real people can receive an OBE? --GunnarRene 01:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

But where would you put it? It would need to have its own section, and that section wouldn't really have a purpose, except to tell this story. It has no reason to be on the page. Serendipodous 07:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Hahaha! I didn't know about this one. Crazy! But what if? She kind of looks like an actress in her photo here in the article. Moonwalkerwiz 03:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Rowling's ethnicity

I'm reposting this from the article to here, as it has become a discussion.

Note to those wish to describe her as English, rather than British: Rowling lives in Scotland, but was English-born, therefore "British" is arguably a better term, since it covers every ambiguity. Serendipodous 16:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

RE: in actual fact, her living in Scotland leads many to believe that she is Scottish, whereas she is English and living in Scotland has no effect on that.

Living in Scotland doesn't make you Scottish? Then what does? Obviously not citizenship; she can't get a Scottish passport. And obviously not birth; Tony Blair was born in Scotland and I don't see anyone calling him a Scot. Serendipodous 16:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I define nationality in terms of what our parents were. As Rowling was born in England and had (as far as I'm aware), English parents, she is English. I live in Scotland, but there is no way in hell I would refer to myself as Scottish! I'm English Jamandell (d69) 16:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

So where does that leave me then? My father's half-Scottish, half-English; my mother's half-American, half-Swedish, I was born in America, but live in London and have a British passport.Serendipodous 16:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Look at the article on Ethnicity - Serendipodus is one quarter Scottish, one-quarter English, one quarter Swedish, and one quarter American - if you're talking about ethnicity. I'm one quarter Austrian - because my father's father is Austrian. But my parents and I were all born in America - and thus I'm American. My ethnicity isn't American - I'm an American-born citizen. My nationality is American - as Rowling's nationality is English (it's more specific than British). Emily ^{(Funtrivia Freak)} 16:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

No, her nationality is British, just like everyone in Scotland, not to mention England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. If Scotland were to declare independence, than that would be a different story, but until then it is Rowling's ethnicity that is under discussion here, not her nationality. Serendipodous 18:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Not all countries of the world recognize the british military occupation of Northern Ireland. Some recognize the territorial unity of Irish Island and hold the free republic as its sole legal owner. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.70.32.136 (talk) 14:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

Fixed

"American" is not an ethnicity. 216.114.203.113 01:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

South Gloucestershire, Avon or Gloucestershire?

This article lists Rowling as being born in South Gloucestershire, however, that didn't exist until 1996 when the County of Avon was abolished on 1 April 1996. Avon itself was only formed in 1974. I'm not entirely sure what came before Avon as Rowling is generally believed to have been born in the Yate/Chipping Sodbury area - that may have just been in the County of Gloucestershire in 1965 - someone will have to confirm. But as her place of birth is now in South Gloucestershire should we list her as being born there or in whatever county existed in 1965? I looked at the Mikhail Gorbachev page for some inspiration and that has him listed as being born in the former Soviet Union not the present-day Russian Federation - any thoughts?

My feeling is that, as Wikipedia is a reference guide, you would want to give as accurate a picture as possible of where someone was born. Someone looking up the birthplace of JK Rowling might want to visit it, and it would be better to give accurate directions. I suppose it might be more historically accurate to say "Gloucestershire", but I think the modern county name should be listed as well. Serendipodous 20:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Her name

The Winterbourne page now references a published list of primary school starters in 1970, which gives her name as Joanne Kathleen - not just Joanne. Ghmyrtle 13:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

If you refer to this (RTF file): It is a file in Rich Text Format, which didn't exist in 1970, and probably the admissions were not stored with a computer then. Moreover, the name "Joanne Kathleen Rowling" is printed red (as well as "Potter" three times). It appears that it is not quite an unaltered copy of the original list. More importantly, Mrs Rowling stated clearly several times that she chose the name "Kathleen" later (interview on darkmark.com [2], biography on jkrowling.com [3]). I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the admission register simply didn't withstand the extraordinary pressure to insert this name... --80.129.108.245 15:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Now would be a very good time to get ahold of Jo's birth certificate. It would not only settle this but also put to rest those rumours about her fudging on where she was born.Serendipodous 16:35, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

No, it wouldn't... ;-) --80.129.86.173 18:39, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

this needs to tell when it was published? . . .okay?. . .okay from ....... =]

Rowling Gate

Indeed there is a housing development near Bristol called "Rowling Gate", but can anyone actually find an authoritative source claiming it was named in her honour? Because I can't.Serendipodous 13:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The mysterious biography in references

The (current) number 5 reference, with the tag name "rowling-bio", is cited eight times in the whole article, but has no real reference and shows up empty in the References section. I checked about twenty recent edits and didn't find any related changes. Has this reference ever existed? If yes, it should be restored (probably after checking all eight citations are correct). If no (or nobody can find it), we should change those citations and reference other sources. — Ming Hua 06:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, the footnote was removed by User:Baileyrand on August 7. The mysterious biography is the one on Rowlings website. Probably an accident. I have reinserted it without thinking it necessary to recheck the citations (though, however, checking is always a good thing). --80.129.104.160 17:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for finding this missing footnote! I've now checked all the eight citations, and with one exception they all match Rowling's biography on her own site. The only part I am skeptical is that the article claims Rowling and her first husband had one child, Jessica Isabel, before divorcing in 1993. But the biography only mentioned the child's name as Jessica, not her middle name, and definitely nothing about the date of the divorce. I may be missing something, though, can someone double check? — Ming Hua 07:13, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I can vouch that that info was added later, and is unsourced. Serendipodous 09:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Good to know. I found the divorce date in the article from about.com, and added a citation to that. I also removed the middle name of Jessica. — Ming Hua 06:53, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

J.K. or J. K.?

I know it's a bit silly to ask, but on all the covers of the British editions there's no space between the initials, neither there is on J.K. Rowling's official site, so maybe the article should be moved to J.K. Rowling instead. Sorry about the nitpicking :). --Lividore 18:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

You might as well ask about the font size of the letters J and K, too. Moonwalkerwiz 03:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

This is a perfectly legitimate question, and it's too bad there was a sarcastic to it. I believe there's a space -- imagine if her name were real full names. You'd put a space. I don't think it should be any different with initials, though I can't find the convention for that right now. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 05:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

A quick googling of "space between initials" showed that it is around 50-50 between space and no space in the various style guides. The Wikipedia style guide is to use the form of the name which she is known under, so Lividore is right, there should be no space in this case.--Per Abrahamsen 10:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I am not familiar with english name shortcuts - I do not see any difference between J. K. and J.K. Is any ? ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 10:58, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Eh, yes. The space between the initials is larger in the first case.--Per Abrahamsen 14:50, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Just to be clear...

Both Rowling and Murray were divorced when they married, though Murray had not yet divorced his wife when they met. They had, however, been separated for a year. Not that it's anyone's business. [4] Serendipodous 09:04, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

"Female authors who wrote under male or gender-neutral pseudonyms"

Should this article not be included in the category "Female authors who wrote under male or gender-neutral pseudonyms"? I thought that Rowling adopted the 'K' initial so that the name would be gender-neutral and appeal to a male audience. 82.26.30.32 20:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

It should be fixed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.175.34.218 (talk) 09:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

Don't see it. By the way - feel free to fix any vandalism yourself, next time you see any. John Broughton | Talk 14:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

It's not appropriate to repeat the exact words of blatant vandalism on this page. Revert/delete vandalism and move on.

Origin of the Harry Potter Character

I added a section in regard to the origin of the Harry Potter character. There was already a character named Harry Potter in the film Troll very much like Rowling's. This was in 1986. It brings into question of just "Who is" Harry Potter. When asked where she got the idea from, she claims she has no idea. Her response should raise eyebrows.

• More on where Rowling gets her ideas from. Scroll to bottom for Troll controversy.

"Harry Potter first appeared as a ordinary kid that discovered magic in the 1986 film 'Troll.' In this film the dark haired boy learns about magic and fights a troll. In an interview with Stories on the Web, Rowling was asked where she got the idea for Harry Potter from, and she answered 'Where the idea for Harry Potter actually came from I really couldn't tell you.' This brings up the legal question: Who owns Harry Potter, makers of the movie Troll, Rowling, or the public domain?" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Clydeman (talk • contribs) 20:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

There are many books, films and comics with similarities to the Harry Potter universe. To draw attention to "Troll" as one, when there are so many others that share far more in common is just silly. Apart from the names of the characters and the common fantasy genre, the two works have nothing in common. Suspicions could justifiably be raised if the two characters were named "Tetrabellius Smellings" but both "Harry" and "Potter" are common names and really there's no more reason to suspect plagarism than if the two characters were called "Jason Smith." People tend to forget that JK Rowling lives in England. That she would have drawn inspiration from a trashy mid-eighties American kiddie horror flick at a time when it took up to a year for US releases to even be screened in the UK seems highly unlikely. Regardless, the contention raised by that website is nonsensical. Yemets never claimed his book wasn't inspired by Rowling's works: he tried to hide under the shield of parody, but his books were judged not to be parodies. Even so, two main characters sharing the same name in two different works is not illegal; only if it is clear that the creator is attempting to pass the character off as the same or similar to another is it considered plagarism. If "Troll" had been called "Harry Potter and the House of Trolls," for instance, the filmmakers may have a case against Rowling. There is no law, nor has there ever been, in creating a work that has similar themes, storylines and characters to another's work, unless the similarities are judged to have been the result of plagarism. So far, despite the many similarities between Harry Potter and, say, The Worst Witch, no judge has declared that Rowling's works are plagaristic. Serendipodous 16:33, 18 December 2006 (UTC)