Talk:Kundalini/Archive 1
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NPOV: Disputed section - Kundalini and psychological distress
The overall tone of the section "Kundalini and psychological distress" veers too much towards the advocacy of kundalini as a verified phenomena (which Western Science hasn't yet realized!!). Rewriting of this section to remove that advocacy is to be desired.
- The criticism is noted and appreciated. The content of the disputed section is now rewritten in order to give it a more neutral tonality. There also ought to be a section on the particular form of yoga called Kundalini Yoga. I will look into that matter. -Hawol
- Thank you. It is much better now. As long as things are properly qualified, I'll remove my NPOV objection. As long as it's clear that how similar the similarities seem depends on the standpoint from which one is looking at them. 65.113.254.188 18:34, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Reply: I agree. Fortunately this kind of quick editing technology gives the contributor the chance to change and refine his contribution with the aid of criticism from other contributors, and within the context of a peer-review. Hawol 193.214.228.98 16:29, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Disputed section - Kundalini in the worlds religions
Funny this anglopocentric web, the only things disputed are non-western, i would rather say non north-european cultural traditions... i found interesting the article, you might as well erase the big bang article (now found to be a galactic local phenomena, the entire sections of pop/commercial culture, products on sale, and why not as all truths are relative the entire wiki (-:) The section "Kundalini in the world's religions" needs to be either completely rewritten or perhaps deleted, especially the first paragraph. It takes the position that kundalini is true and that the mentioned concepts/entities pneuma and Holy Ghost are the same as kundalini. This viewpoint would be disputed by adherents of Christianity. --65.113.254.145 20:24, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Allthough i did not contribute this section I did take the liberty of editing it to make it more encyclopedic. - Hawol
- To put a time-stamped signature after your comments, put "~~~~". It makes it easier to follow a discussion. —wwoods 23:14, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Kundalini is an energy that depending on the level of evolution can be felt differently. In other religions has other names. But this discussion is like fighting regarding who is the real God. Every religion has its own Kundalini. Do not try to label it or define it in such as specific way, we all think and feel differently. I think some of you are wrong, but are you really wrong, of is it that my experience has been different than yours. The kundalini and its definitions come from ancient times. And even back then the definitions did not match. So now, that even more religions and more people are experiencing kundalini, how do you think we can manage to find only one definition. Can you define Love in a way it will make everybody happy, western and eastern worlds, religions and people in general? Lets not get lost in details. some parts I agree with some other I dont and I agree with your point of view, but how can you write all the meaning and expressions of kundalini if there is some many different people and opinions out there. I think we all should write what we know about it without deleting what other have written about it.
Michelle
Regarding deletions and rewrites
It was necessary to delete and rewrite some of the material in this article in order to remove some of the semantic confusion and New-Age hermeneutics surrounding this subject. I hope I have not offended the other contributors in any way, my wish has only been to introduce more clarity and academical scholarship related to the content of this article. --Hawol 10:40, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Problem with recently added statement
It is uncertain whether these claims arise from genuine concerns about safety, or from particular interests professionals may have in retaining their clients.
I have a problem with this statement. It is not unusual for teachers of meditation and other professionals within the general clinical field, or the transpersonal field, to warn about and investigate the possible adverse effects of meditation. Usually the practitioners of a contemplative practice cope nicely but sometimes - if the meditation or contemplative practice has been practised wrongly, or too intensely - serious adverse effects may occur (Shapiro, 1992; Lukoff, 1998; Perez-De-Albeniz & Holmes, 2000). I believe these warnings are motivated by a concern for the welfare of the practitioner and as a precaution against the phenomenon of spiritual emergency (Lukoff, 1998). As a statement outside of such a context the disputed sentence looks more like something out of a discussion group. That is not to say that there doesn't exist important and valuable criticisms of the client/therapist relationship or the teacher/student relationship, there does, but the warning against possible pitfalls of a contemplative path, or technique, is in my belief justified. Could it perhaps be possible to formulate an alternative or different phrasing of the disputed sentence?
References:
Lukoff, David (1998) From Spiritual Emergency to Spiritual Problem: The Transpersonal Roots of the New DSM-IV Category. Journal of Humanistic Psychology, 38(2), 21-50,
Perez-De-Albeniz, Alberto & Holmes, Jeremy (2000) Meditation: Concepts, Effects And Uses In Therapy. International Journal of Psychotherapy, March 2000, Vol. 5 Issue 1, p49, 10p
Shapiro DH Jr. (1992) Adverse effects of meditation: a preliminary investigation of long-term meditators.Int J Psychosom. 1992;39(1-4):62-7. PubMed abstract PMID: 1428622
--Hawol 12:38, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Changes in Bibliography
I have done some editing in the Bibliography section. The references on medical research on Kundalini Yoga is transferred to the Kundalini Yoga article. Two references (Thalbourne and Ring & Rosing) that are not cited in the original Kundalini article are deleted. They might be brought back in if they can be cited in a proper context.
Hawol --193.214.228.98 17:10, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Removing caduceus external link
Listen, I don't want to sound like a person who knows everything about the subject of Kundalini or come of as an editorial dictator, because I don't know everything there is to know about this subject. I am very sympathetic towards new contributions and humbled by new insights, but since this article recently has gone through an editorial change that places it more within the frame of western academia I find that some new entries to the article - like the caduceus external link - are positioned outside of that context. I find this a bit problematic because the subject matter of Kundalini - as presented in this article - leans more towards a western interpretation, taken from the academic disciplines of Religious Studies and Transpersonal and Humanistic Psychology. To introduce reference material that is affiliated with a particular spiritual organization - such as Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Sahaja Yoga - might be interpreted as a sponorship for that particular organization and that organizations interpretation of Kundalini. Since the subject of Kundalini is already a controversial topic of discussion, and subject to a lot of easy generalizations, laid out by a wide spectrum of commentators across the WWW, I believe that a localization of this article within a western academical understanding is the most healthy approach to the matter. Especially considering the welfare of readers who have not encountered the subject beforehand. To be introduced to a complex contemplative eastern concept via a foreign cultural or spiritual source - such as Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Sahaja Yoga - might not be beneficial to new readers. I have therefore removed the disputed external link. I hope this has not offended the person that contributed the link as I find the entry about caduceus to be a valid entry.
--Hawol 12:57, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Addition to "The Kundalini Syndrome", moved from the main page
Given the personal tone and orientation of this addition (contributed by user user: 60.234.97.222) I believe that it should be removed from the main page and placed in the discussion-section. I don't see it as qualifying as an encyclopedic entry. Since the contributor does not cite any sources in his overview it is difficult to do a source-critical reading. Remember, the Wikipedia main articles are not dicussion-forums. Within the frame and understanding of encyclopedic additions one can not post articles on a main subject, like Kundalini, in the same way that one posts articles in a discussion group. I don't want to sound harsh and critical, new insights are important, but I also believe that the welfare of the reader is important :)
--Hawol 11:01, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
See also Wikipedia:Cite_your_sources
ADDITION: (Contributed by user: 60.234.97.222)
Kundalini can be better tackled as the conscious experience of a life force which has many synonyms, like vril, orgone, prana, bharaka, joriki, life force, cosmic energy, ki, mana, breath,prana, od, elan vital, libido, hormic energy, aether, Sufi wine, serpent, divine water or aquavit, fountain of life, plasma, soma, Eros, light as well as recently in science as pseudo magnetism; fifth force; empty waves, radiation energy, tachyon fields, free energy, gravitation field energy, space energy, unified field, emptiness energy, vital magnetism, bio-cosmic energy, Mumia, X-force, N-radiation, ponderomatoric forces, radiation energy, M-field. I cannot find this in a thesaurus, so compiled my own incomplete list. Alchemy is about little else. The Sufi call to awaken is another version. ZEN another one again, so is Kabalah and simpler Amerindian "spirit". Myths are into hardly anything else It is found in all religions and all societies under different names and modelled in different icons, like fi the Tree of life, where the crown symbolises the mind, with a snake wound around the trunk for our spine, and as Hermes with his magic wand or Odin hanging upside down from the tree of life Yggdrasyll. No matter how framed, modelled or pickled in a glyph or icon it is a human universal experience currently widely experienced by many people. It can be sensed as an energy flow up the spine and can be accompanied by both bad and good sensations and take a long or short time, which depends on the prior mindset of the experient and a reaction to such sensations. Gopi Krishna discusses it, but not very well. In an Ideal sense it should be a smooth experience coming soon after the end of one's teenage, which, so to speak, ends the development of our body, although nowadays even children get it. Star children or indigos come equipped with it. A simplest explanation would be that our culture model and mindset insists on a rational and only materialistic, static mindset,concerned with objects, somehow and wrongly derived from Plato, whereas our mind takes in a constant flow of data and experience for which we tend to cut out quite a lot of that. It comes along with an attitude by whuch we feel we MUST DO something ABOUT all that stuff going on whereas it's easier to tackle whatever one needs to act on and take the rest as moving wallpaper, sort of, more interesting than watching telly these days. Our body is survival oriented whereas our mind is not, so one could say it puts us in touch with our real mind, we were originally born with anyhow. It has become attached to esoteric or hermetic or occult knowledge with religious explanations because it includes such things as channeling, being psychic, healing, having mystical experiences and more, which are, in a weird way, all part of this. For that one can divide things up into psychic phenomena versus mystical non-phenomenal, non sensory experience. Most people tend to stop at one or other developmental phase as it gives them something to do and only people like Maharishi, Sri Ramana Maharshi, etc., or the wanderling on internet, develop it to its fuller extent. One can hardly do it justice in a short encyclopedia article, but I hope to have included enough hints for further enquiry. Many books are written about it but the crucial thing is the experience itself, which, in a funny way is self-teaching and can correct our misconceptions if we are willing to learn from it. The curiosity about recent experiences by people today is that the older way to withdraw from life is no longer necessary. My sources are, of course, my own experience and learning for which I could list all too many books consumed. A film of Beethoven shows us he had one of those cosmic experiences. The film "Powder" shows one of those people, as in a way does "Matrix" show us a choice we have and the recent "What the Bleep do we know?" has scientists tell us about it, not to ignore Harry Potter and magic, which is a ritual form for those who like such things. Rudi Rucker in "The Infinite Mind" casually admits to it. Merrell Wolff calls it "Consciousness without an object". Once your mind is attuned to picking up such ideas they crop up all over the place. In short it's nothing special unless you want to make it into something special. If anybody tells you theirs is the ONLY way to get there, just walk off. I would also like to warn people about recent sound tapes that tell us they harmonise left and right brain, but they don't harmonise the whole brain and why pay money for what you can have in your own right? The 17th Patriarch of Zen was held too stupid to learn the sacred knowledge so they put him to gardening and he found it anyhow so he was made a patriarch. The shortest explanation is by St Francis of Assissi who tells us "what we are looking for is what is looking". Altogether it has more variety than any lipstick or nail polish. There's only one way to BE your complete SELF, yours.
Disputed sentence: non-sexual air-gasm
Within the context of meditation Kundalini might also be interpreted as a meditation-induced ecstatic experience, a non-sexual "air-gasm
This information needs to be elaborated, and preferably supported with research-data.
- Hawol
Disputed section: Pathological Kundalini
I have removed parts of the section on Pathological Kundalini because of source-critical reasons and a tendency towards speculative discourse. The information concerning the serial killer Pee Wee Gaskins comes from a random website. Since the rest of the material in this article on Kundalini are from published academic works it would be preferable that this standard is upheld throughout the article. The same source-critical criticism regards the section on Shoko Asahara. I must advise contributors to please give a bibliographical reference so that the reader can do a critical reading. I agree that both sections contain important insights and I would welcome them back if they can be properly documented. The sentence on Nietzsche has speculative tonality and is also not supported by a reference. Please forgive my normative attitude, but I believe that the welfare of the reader is important.
--Hawol 29 June 2005 13:36 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Cite_your_sources
- the literature is rife with warnings re kundalini, but few actual examples of casualties, accidental or intentional, Nietzsche's case seems so obviously an accidental kundalini casualty, it is worth inclusion as an example. Many other examples are cited in the literature on Meher Baba's work with the masts.
Removing sources not cited in the article
- Irving, Darrel, (1995) Serpent of Fire: A Modern View of Kundalini, York Beach, ME: Samuel Weiser, Inc., ISBN 0877288305
- Swami Muktananda, (1978) Play of Consciousness, San Francisco: Harper and Row, spiritual autobiography
- Effendi, Irmansyah, (2004) Reiki TUMMO: An Effective Technique for Health and Happiness, Indonesia : Yayasan Padmajaya Press. ISBN 9799852900
- Jones, Franklin, aka Da Free John and other names, (1973) The Knee of Listening: The Early Life and Radical Spiritual Teachings, Los Angeles: Dawn Horse Press. autobiography
- Wolfe, W. Thomas, (1978) And the Sun is Up: Kundalini Rises in the West, Red Hook, NY: Academy Hill Press
- Sivananda, Sri Swami (1971) Kundalini Yoga, Sivanandanagar, UP, India: Divine Life Society.
- Radha, Swami Sivananda (Sylvia Hellman) (1978) Kundalini: Yoga for the West, Forward by Herbert V. Guenther, Introduction by Stanley Krippner, Spokane: Timeless Books.
- Saraswati, Paramahans Satyananda (1972) Tantra of Kundalini Yoga, Bihar, India: Bihar School of Yoga.
- Woodroffe, Sir John, The Serpent Power. an early presentation of Yoga to the West.
________________
I have removed the above sources until further notice. Since none of the sources are cited in the article their content remains unelaborated, and their status as information remains unclear. I am however willing to re-include the sources if they can be integrated in a larger and more comprehensive section on the higly relevant spiritual interpretations of Kundalini. --Hawol 14:52, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
I put Swami Muktananda's Book back to the article. Although it is not cited it is a basic work about kundalini.
- Well I put it back again here, didn't find out how to modify the main page in an acceptable way. But my intention remains, Muktananda should be on the main page, maybe someone else can do it or I come back later with more knowledge
Exploding head syndrome: statement needs documentation
A roaring noise or other loud auditory hallucination have also been reported, perhaps related to the phenomenon of 'Exploding head syndrome'.
I am removing the information on Exploding head syndrome until we can establish where this symptom has been reported. In other words, we need a reference or a documented study which have reported this symptom in relation to Kundalini- symptomatology. --Hawol 13:02, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Reply
I can elaborate on the "roaring noise" phenomenon. I am unwilling to put this information on the main page because it is my own experience and completely unverifiable. The roaring sound is mentioned in the Hathayoga Pradipika as the "bheri nada" (drum sound) The nada sounds (spoken of in the texts as the "unstruck sounds") can be easily confused with tinitus and perhaps are the same thing in essence. The inference I draw from the text is the nada sounds are produced by the body's energy flow. (one related meditation practice is to listen to the nada sound as the means to bring about the arising of kundalini - which from personal experience I found to be correct, although this was not the means of my initial experience)
The roaring noise occurs if the energy makes it past the ajna ckakra but then escapes the sushumna. The accompanying impression is a sense of leaving one's body through the top of the head but this I feel is purely an hallucination. There are different sounds associated with the vishuddi chakra and ajna but both are very pronounced and I believe audible to any one witnessing a kundalini arising in another person. The energy needs to reach the sahasrara and to do so must pierce the final knot which is at the base of the skull at the top of the back of the neck (I believe this is the "granti knot" referred to in the Pradipika)(after putting this information up I did some fact checking and I could not find the relevant text here. My library is no longer extensive and I am working from memory so I fear I am misinforming people here. The closest I could find was a reference to the "Rudra granti" but this is sited in a different part of the body to the one I nominate. There are other texts such as the Gheranda Samhita and the Siva Samhita which I no longer have.). This is where meditation will help greatly because a great deal of body awareness is needed to even notice the subtle internal pressures involved.
One last point. In my opinion I see nothing but bullshit spoken about kundalini. Mostly people seem to draw their ideas from Woodruffe's Serpent Power and they fail to understand that the text (although genuine but of limited value) is not to to be taken literally; in just the same way the Tibetan Kalacakra mandala is not to be taken literally. The diagrams and details of kundalini are schemematic not realistic (for instance people routinely imagine the ajna is a chakra with two petals - rubbish, it is diagrammed that way because it has an oscillating vibration of two and is experienced that way when the energy passes through. Likewise the visuddhi which has a vibration of 16). As I say I am relating personal experience. I have lived with this stuff for 20 years now. The conclusion I draw is this - the arising of kundalini although dramatic in itself does not produce dramatic changes. What I seem to be noticing is a slowly growing capacity, an increasing level of competence. What kundalini is ultimately about I have no idea but my speculation is it is a change of state which might influence the nature of future incarnations. I hope people dont mind me putting all this personal stuff on here.
Reply
Thank you for that elaboration, I don't mind the personal orientation of your reply. I also believe that a clearer differentiation between tinitus and different accoustical phenomena (experienced in meditation) is necessary. Kundalini is indeed a controversial and sometimes, confusing subject, discussed by a wide spectrum of meditators, commentators and theorists. Clinical literature on meditation-related problems has been under way for some years now, but the number of published studies is still a bit low. Another problem concerns the import of yogic and buddhistic terminology to a western setting, how are westerners meant to interpret mediation-related phenomena, considering the the great differences between asian and western socialization and culture. These are indeed challenging questions? --Hawol 13:01, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
Reply
I would like to make it clear that I in no way advocate the practices contained in the Pradipika. It should be noted that Hindu sacred texts are often the work of multiple authors and can span several centuries. It is unwise to assume they have all shrugged off their cultural superstitions or that they are uniformly sane and ethical. I made my study of the texts after my experiences. Many of the practices suggested in the texts are extreme and some clearly are quite mad. For the record my experience came about (I believe) due to several years of mild practice of anuloma-viloma pranayama (alternating breathing) and a disciplined meditation practice. The necessary formula (if my experience is valid) seems to be one of vitalising the body and making the mind serene. The inference in the text is kundalini has a natural tendency to rise and all that is required are the right conditions. I met in my life one other person who had also experienced a genuine kundalini arising and he also adopted a gentle approach although he was more vigorous with the pranayama.
You refer to meditation related problems. Most of these problems are exacerbated by poor teachers. Many people harbour deep psychological stress which needs to be patiently addressed in meditation practise. Kundalini experience in itself will definitely alter a persons world concept and takes not a little time to integrate. It is complicated greatly if a whole lot of unresolved emotional trauma is unleashed simultaneously.
Lastly I think it is wise to take a grain of salt with eastern traditions. The high point for this stuff was about two and a half thousand years ago, I have given up trying to have sensible discussion with Buddhists and yoga practitioners. They all insist on staying within the narrow confines of their particular beliefs and feel threatened if confronted with the internal contradictions of their various traditions. (Buddhism for instance suffered greatly as a result of Asoka making it a state religion) There is much to be gained by making a comparative study of the topic as it has arisen in India and China and to a lesser extent in most other cultures.
Reply
Yes, I agree with many of your observations, and I feel that these matters raise many challenging questions, especially concerning the reading of eastern traditions. At this point in Kundalini-research I believe it is fair to say that the concept of Kundalini, or it's related expressions (pranic imbalance, pranic disorder, pranotthana) can be recognized as a meditation-related phenomenon that appears with some degree of consistency and regularity in subcultural settings that include meditation, yoga or other kinds of body work. Not to forget the work of Greyson, which points to the observation of Kundalini-symptomatology among Near-Death experiencers. This means that the concept of Kundalini can be studied with the tools of phenomenology. The main contributions to this phenomenological study have, so far, come from the schools of Transpersonal psychology and Humanistic psychology. The response from mainstream medicine (with the exception of Le Fanu, 2002, See references) has been very modest. Allthough the Transpersonal and Humanistic studies are highly relevant, they do give the impression that Kundalini-phenomenology is something that is discussed in the periphery of the academic world, and in the outskirts of western culture. This is not surprising considering the association of Kundalini-terminology with the semantics of new age and occultism, with mythological hindu religion or with supersitition. These associations have clearly diminished the credibility of the concept. Allthough the traditional understanding of the concept includes such mythological and religious features, it also includes important experiental and transpersonal components that can not automatically be reduced to mythology or religion. Turner et.al's (1995) article from the "Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease" (see references) might therefore be interpreted as a meeting point between medical and humanistic/transpersonal discourse, and as a possible step toward a rehabilitation of the concept of kundalini as a functional, or descriptive category in psychiatric nosology. That is, as an instrument to detect a particular meditation-related problem, or phenomenon. This is especially relevant in the cases where kundalini-phenomenology is understood to lead to serious mental imbalance or distress. Notice also that a phenomenological understanding of kundalini has the opportunity to remain fairly silent about the ontology of Kundalini (i.e questions concerning how it does exist?.. or why it does exist?). --Hawol 12:40, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
Meher Baba
Eye contact during satsang with the guru is also supposed to cause this experience. Within the context of spiritual literature inadvertent kundalini experiences have also been reported to take place when subjects physically contacted powerful gurus, such as Meher Baba, by accident.
I am removing this passage until we can establish documentation for such meetings between practitioners and gurus. --Hawol 12:29, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
Pathological Kundalini: Nietzsche and Hakuin
I have removed the following passage:
Among those thought to have been victims of a pathological kundalini awakening are the philosopher Nietzsche, and the Zen master Hakuin.
Please provide a reference for this information. --Hawol 07:24, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Pathological Kundalini Awakening
This same phenomenon happens in Qi Gong. Sources on-line point to too many sessions in a compact time frame as the cause. But those sites still claim the existence of Universal Life Forces.
This problem can be understood but only if you have studied design and Systems Furniture.
The phenomenon that can cause a sudden dissociative or psychotic episode was accidentally discovered when knowledge workers using the first close-spaced office workstations began having mental breaks, 1960's. Psychologists determined that Subliminal Sight and Peripheral Vision Reflexes operating in the special circumstances created by those too-close workstations had produced the episodes. The Cubicle became the industry standard to stop the mental breaks.
When either Qi Gong or Kundalini Yoga is performed in groups the meditation and eyes-open concentration create the same level of mental investment that knowledge workers must use to plan, design, perform math calculations, or work with a computer (reading for comprehension).
When performed in groups the subliminal detection of threat movement due to the movement of others near by supply the same movement in peripheral vision that office staff walking beside a concentrating unprotected worker does.
When a threshold of exposure in a compact time frame is reached the same mental break happens in all those cases.
The original publication of papers on this would have been done between about 1964 and 1968/69. Volunteers searching the APA database have been unable to separate papers about Peripheral Vision Reflexes.
Understanding the cause allows Yogis to plan sessions to limit exposure to safe levels. Other exposure can occur in homes, dorms, classrooms, and small business offices that do not provide Cubicle Level Protection.
We all have exposure to Subliminal Distraction every day. Most of it is harmless until we engage an activity that provides the extra exposure, which will lead to the mental break.
The noise phenomenon is "hearing voices."
If you wish to help you can reach me by clicking any email link at VisionAndPsychosis.Net.
L K Tucker 05:07, 13 October 2005 (UTC) http://VisionAndPsychosis.net or http://visionandpsychosis.net/Kundalini_Yoga_Psychotic_Episode.htm
- As mentioned by Greyson (1993; see main article) the relationship between Kundalini-symptomatology and psychosis remains controversial. Although the presence of Kundalini-symptomatology might lead to considerable emotional and psychological distress, the research of Greyson (ibid.) implies that many of these problems have a non-pathological component, and that it is possible to differentiate kundalini from mental illness. --Hawol 16:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Removing Reiki Tummo link
Reiki Tummo - Explaination about Kundalini and shakitipat technique for instant and safe Kundalini awakening
Although the link has informational value I believe that it is best to reserve external links for academic references. Especially considering the present confusion surrounding spiritual techniques, and the post-modern interpretations of these techniques. Also, according to different spiritual traditions, and the school of transpersonal psychology, the safety of a particular kundalini or shaktipat technique depends largely on the cultural context of the technique, how well-prepared the student is, and whether the student has access to a credible teacher or guide. If these conditions are not satisfied the safety of any such technique might be disputed. And lastly, the actual Reiki Tummo site contains commercial discourse. --Hawol 09:58, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
More comments on External Links
Considering the present confusion surrounding spiritual terminology and the post-modern interpretation of this terminology, including the adaptation of eastern concepts such as Kundalini to a western context, I believe it is best to reserve the section for external links to academic sources. By this I do not mean to downgrade or trivialize the insights on Kundalini provided by spiritual organizations and websites, but only to suggest that in this confusing time a western frame of interpretation (provided by western scholars) might be most sensitive to the welfare of the reader. --Hawol 11:35, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
- Why do you assume the reader is Western? GangofOne 12:28, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
- Well, for several reasons:
- 1) The article is written from a western point of view.
- 2) It is part of the english Wikipedia.
- 3) The scholars cited in the text (with a few exceptions) are dominantly western scholars.
- 4) The yogic terminology that is used in the text are filtered through the lenses of western schools of psychology (e.g transpersonal, humanistic, near-death).
- That said, the possible readers might of course not be western, but given that the subject of Kundalini is still controversial I believe that it is wise to consider the welfare of the reader and to assume that the reader is unfamiliar with yogic terminology. However, this must not be intepreted as an ethnocentric attitude on my part. It only means that the article is written for the type of person that has no prior knowledge of yogic terminology or eastern concepts of development, and this person might more often be characterized as western than as eastern. Further, this does not mean that I do not appreciate the insights of eastern traditions on the subject of Kundalini (after all, the term has originated from eastern traditions). I will welcome an improved version of this article that elaborates upon the eastern view of Kundalini as long as it is based in sound scholarship. In the end the current version of article does not present an ideal solution, only a pragmatic solution. -Hawol 16:38, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
- The reason why I try to keep the external link section as slim as possible is because the concept of Kundalini attracts all kinds commentators and spiritial organizations. If there are no gatekeeping criteria (e.g a preference for academical information) for this section, I suspect that it will soon be overflooded with a broad sortiment of links. I do not think that this gatekeeping is unproblematic, but considering the present confusion surrounding spiritual matters, and the welfare of the reader, I believe that it is a reasonable solution. --Hawol 17:28, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Links Moved From the Main Article
I have added this section because I believe it more appropriate to move links deemed inappropriate for the main article to this, the talk page, rather than deleting them entirely. Hawol, I understand your focus on the academic context, but that does not mean that non-academic links are entirely without value, particularly for people seeking opinions outside both the limited Western academic interpretations of Kundalini and the traditional Eastern interpretations. Perhaps after some discussion a separate external links section in the main article could be created for them. Ironwolf 21:54, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
- Non-academic links are not without value, I agree, but they can be problematic for the uninformed reader. Therefore I can agree with all of your main points, and I have no problems with moving problematic links to the talk page while we await a better solution. --Hawol 13:02, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
- Also, links which contain commercial language or product information will be removed from the main page. --Hawol 09:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
List of links moved from the main page:
- Kundalini Survival & Support, Information and Forums
- Experience the awakening of Kundalini(Self Realization)
- The Experience of Gopi Krishna - The Sage of the Kundalini Energy
- Kundalini faq by Kurt Keutzer
- Hoshinbudo
- Dossier of the Ascension: A Practical Guide to Chakra Activation and Kundalini Awakening (Moved from main article by --Hawol 17:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC))
- Kundalini Awakening and Yogic cure (Moved from main article by --Hawol 09:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC))
- Removing the pain of death through Kundalini Yoga (Moved from main article by --Hawol 11:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC))
- Articles On Kundalini (Moved from main article by --Hawol 19:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC))
- More articles on Kundalini (Moved from main article by --Hawol 19:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC))
- Lee Sannella's The Visionary Life (Moved from main article by --Hawol 10:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC))
- Work with Kundalini — Chapter from the book Ecology of Human Being in Multidimensional Space by Dr Vladimir Antonov. (Moved from main article by --Hawol 10:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC))
- The Kundalini Support Network (Moved from main article by --Hawol 10:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC))
- Kundalini seminars in German language (Moved from main article by --Hawol 10:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC))
- Kundalini - Our Reason for Living:Steve Gibson (Moved from main article by --Hawol 09:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC))
- Vethathiri Maharishi's Simplified Kundalini Yoga(Moved from main article by --Hawol 10:29, 8 July 2006 (UTC))
More on Exploding head syndrome
One commentator (see Revision as of 15:21, 18 May 2006; now removed by another user) has implied that my reply to the discussion concerning Exploding head syndrome was rather pedantic, and that it can be understood to explain away the roaring sound feature of kundalini-symptomatology. If my reply is understood to be pedantic, then I must apologize for the tone, and the academic dryness, of the above reply. My intention was not to kill the topic (as the commentator implies) or to provide an exhaustive, or authoritative explanation, for the symptoms of kundalini. I do consider such accoustical phenomena to be phenomenological entities that must be taken seriously in any investigation of Kundalini-symptomatology.--Hawol 12:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Corrected some minor stuff
The section on Historial part said the first book was Hatha Yoga Pradpika. Actually Siva Sutras also mention it. Also, the first Westerner to popularise Kundalini was Sir John Woodroffe, whose books are even now read. Surprised nobody knew that.
3rdly, Kundalini in Hinduism is related to Tantra. I have already written a section on in it the Hindu portion of Tantra. Instead of copy pasting it, I have just given a link to it. Shiva bakta 10:54, 6 July 2006 (UTC)Shiva_bakta
Wikify
Just my 2 cents, a lot of the citations in this article need to be changed into Wikipedia footnotes. TheRingess 04:35, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
'''Renga the Kundalini Guy''' :: Well, this is my very first Edit & also contribution in Wikipedia. I am a practicioner of Kundalini Yoga or mediatation from 1984. I find kundalini is a very simple and natural thing existing in all living things. Actually you feel it normally. It is the senation which is felt by the running of the blood fluid through the veins. Some time you can even experience a heightened sensation say after running some distance. You fell your blood vessels throbbing and you can feel the blood running. It is the same sensation. I do not know who has made all these kind of estoric terms and meanings but if you practice kundalini meditation you find it quite a normal sensation. You can feel it very well between in your forehead and if you observe it intently you can even perceive it in the tip of your hand or in the top of the head. Where ever you find you have your blood vessels you can find this sensation happening.
True to my self and my mediatation, I have not found any chakras or serpents etc in my last 21 years. I too rread a number of books on this subject and I found they are basically descriptions of the phenomena occuring in your body. But I do respect the knowledge of various people who wrote these books and treatises. But what they really mean is not a 'Chakra' or a serpent but some principle may be. Like when you teach magnetism you say magnetic rays pass thru iron. In fact there is no such thing as a magnetic line. But I am sure if you do not make this assumption you cannot teach magentism to the student.
I think this is what happened with all the names and things assocaited with kundalini. More I find if I take good and nutritious food with some good sweets the Kundalini sansation becomes better in the fore head. I find my sexual interests are also gets very well streamlined and I am able to perform my duties as a husband very effectively. In fact four years after my kundalini initiation I got married and in the fifth year I got my baby daughter. At times I get amused by the words saying with Kundalini power you sex power increases - it just does not. At fifty, your sexual prowness decreases - with or without kundalini. But after kunalini meditation, you find you are some how in control of your mind and it obeys what you say. In fact after some time you do not even see the difference - the mind seems to be same as my intelligence or what ever you may call it. But if I see a porn movie , yes , I cannot control at times - it all depends in waht mood you are. But if I find sex troubling me, then I indulge in sex rather than use Kundalini et al. It is easier and simpler - besides joyful.
Kundalini gives you better health no doubt, but you will become obsese if you over eat. But after a good mediataion I have good hunger and even If I over eat it gets digested. I also do some exercise to keep me fit.
But true to the saying - you an understand all the religious books and poetry much better after you undertake Kundalini initiation. The meanigs etc become different.
My request to all the readers of this note is this - try this yoga after a good initiation from a good master. I feel, you must have the xperience and write. Most of the time all of us try to write to please others or to show our knowledge or to convince the world that we know a lot and have tons of knowledge. But my point is this - rather than writing an essay on how sweet sugar or honey is, you can taste the same in your mouth. I am sure you cannot describe your experience sufficiently in words.
Most of what is written here seems to be normal - I am happy to see that some body is removing the religious crap out of this. I also do not mind my passage getting edited or shortened in some form but I would be only happy if all the readers practice Kundalini. It is quite an ordinary thing which we all have - not at all mystical !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Footnotes and Further Reading
Basically I replaced all of the citations in the article of the form (Author, Date) with footnotes. The references are now all listed in the "Notes" section. I think this makes the article a little easier to read. I changed the "References" section to "Further Reading" since those listings were not actually used as references in the article. TheRingess 18:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
- If you loook a bit closer you will see that most of the references now placed under the section called further reading are actually used as references in the article, so we should probably try to integrate them under the new footnote-section. Otherwise, nice work! --Hawol 09:35, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Mantak Chia
concerning "side effects": the kundalini syndrom is commonly known among buddhists doing zen meditatio. It can be healed rapidly by taoist methods, which are explained by Mantak. The trick is to bring down the energy from the brain to the lower chakras. It's easy if u know how to. I can't find that in the article. I like Burke's Peerage 12:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
What are User:Hawol's Credentials to be the dictator of this article?
User:Hawol seems to have made numerous and repeated excisions of various subjects in this article without evidencing much knowledge about the subject he is butchering. It seems to me his excessive, if not downright obsessive, fussiness is doing the article and its readers a disservice.
i completely agree. this article has been been overly constricted and academic-ized to the point of complete lack of clarity. a look at other spiritual, 'alternative medical' and philosophical concepts entries that don't suffer this sort of deep constriction would be fruitful. the framing of kundalini within a very modern, western academic and psychological framework, which i assume is the work mostly of User Hawol, is in itself very subjective and POV. subsections on all known interpretations and uses of the concept of kundalini should be here. i came to wikipedia looking for information on something and once again i find that overzealous editors have pretty much ruined the article...seems to be a systemic problem which, if left un-checked, will unravel wikipedia from within...bummer. 63.105.19.244 00:16, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
kundalini syndrom repair idea
thank you Mantak Chia for the way to fix the kundalini syndrom "The trick is to bring down the energy from the brain to the lower chakras."
I have been having problems with this for years, I found that doing as you said helped only if I run the energy down the front of my body, if the energy is sent along the spine it really messes me up.
I hope this information helps someone. I am worried about editing the main page, my grammer is not so good. if anyone wants more details from me, my email is adam at spacecase0.com
Kundalini Intro
I have included the name/concept Kundalini Shakti in the intro since kundalini is offen known as kundalini shakti....the divine mother aspect. Chiron.main 23:24, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
