Talk:Light-independent reaction

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[edit] Move request

(from WP:RM)

[edit] Dark reaction → Dark reactions

Move onto top of a redirect. Target makes more sense for content of article. --Whosyourjudas (talk) 04:32, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Object - isn't wikistyle usually to have articles in the singular, with redirects at the plural, unless the singular does not make sense? Since dark reaction means one of the dark reactions listed there, why can't we leave it where it is? -- ALoan (Talk) 12:49, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • The article is about the dark reactions: carbon fixation and the calvin cycle. It is extremely rare to have just one referred to as "a dark reaction". --Whosyourjudas (talk) 00:07, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Dark reactions is a redirect to Calvin cycle. Would it not be a good idea to have one article that contains all of the information spread between dark reaction, Calvin cycle and carbon fixation? Or could it all be included in photosynthesis?-- ALoan (Talk) 13:36, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Photosynthesis links to dark reaction as a "main article". Calvin cycle is a very specific reaction, as is carbon fixation; each deserves its own article. Dark reactions should be a semi-disambig, then, along the lines of dark reaction right now - and photosynthesis should link to it. Hence the move request. --Whosyourjudas (talk) 04:10, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • Well, I'm not a biochemist, so I'll take your word for it, but it is a little hard to reconcile what you say with the text of the articles:
        • dark reaction says that there are two dark reactions, carbon fixation and the Calvin cycle, but then goes on to say that C3 carbon fixation is the first step of the Calvin cycle, and C4 carbon fixation and CAM supply carbon dioxide to the Calvin cycle;
        • C3 carbon fixation says "this reaction occurs in all plants as the first step of the Calvin cycle";
        • C4 carbon fixation is not terribly helpful either way;
        • Crassulacean acid metabolism says "the carbon stored during CAM eventually enters the Calvin cycle", which implies that CAM is not a part of the Calvin cycle, but rather precedes it;
        • carbon fixation says that it occurs "when the three carbon dioxide molecules taken in each time there is a turn in the Calvin cycle in the dark reactions of photosynthesis", which seems to imply that carbon fixation occurs as part of the Calvin cycle;
        • Calvin cycle says "this set of reactions is also called carbon fixation", which again implies that the Calvin cycle and carbon fixation are synonymous, and, indeed, the first reaction lists there seems to be the same one as is included in C3 carbon fixation.
      • This all leaves me a little confused as to which reactions are separate and which are parts of other things. You seem to be saying that carbon fixation precedes the Calvin cycle, but these articles seem to imply that they are synonymous (or, at least, one it part of the other). In any event, I'm still not convinced that dark reactions (plural) is better than dark reaction (singular) is the right place, from a WP:MOS point of view. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:41, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
        • Dark reactions is fine, as it implies both Carbon fixation and the Calvin Cycle, each of which also comprises many smaller reactions, and this term has been in quite common use already.
        • These articles all need some TLC, which I am slowly providing. Carbon fixation refers to any reaction that builds CO2 into a larger carbohydrate. C4 and CAM precede the Calvin cycle and provide their products to it again as CO2.(These are best explained with diagrams, which I am working on.) The Calvin cycle is a form of carbon fixation, specifically C3 fixation. C4 and CAM precede and supplement the Calvin cycle. So: the Calvin cycle is a form of carbon fixation, but other forms of carbon fixation exist that are dark reactions in their own right. Thus the "dark reactions" are carbon fixation (esp. C4 and CAM) and the very specific, important form of it, the Calvin cycle. And we haven't gotten anywhere; we are discussing two distinct reactions, but one is a form of another. I feel that they are thus "dark reactions" - and the article title should reflect the fact they are two unique reactions generally referred to together. As the example at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (pluralization) says, if someone asked me, "What is a dark reaction?", I would say "The dark reactions are...", not "A dark reaction is...". The plural is the common reference. I have also seen the reactions referred to as the "carbon fixation reactions" - the sum total of all the reactions, preceding and including the Calvin cycle. But even in this case they are plural "reactions", not the "carbon fixation reaction" or "dark reaction". --Whosyourjudas (talk) 05:00, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming

I've moved this to light-independent reaction from dark reaction as dark reaction implies that it only takes place in the dark (compare light reaction only occuring in the presence of light).

Talrias 12:02, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• This article seems unnecessary given the articles on Calvin cycle and Carbon fixation. It is also inaccurate on several points. The term light-independent reaction is obsolete because it is inaccurate. The Calvin cycle and carbon fixation are not light independent. They use the energy produced by the light reactions so are dependent on light. They also occur in the light except for the initial, temporary carbon dioxide fixation in CAM photosynthesis. Plantguy 02:00, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The energy plants use to drive carbon fixation is derived from light, but that is not the only paradigm that nature has designed, Some bacteria are ChemoAutotrophs, carbon fixers that use chemical power and not light power. I don't believe that wikipedians gave these reactions there names, I beleive we should follow the themes that science has designed. Adenosine | Talk 05:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)