Talk:List of characters in Trigun

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	List of characters in Trigun is within the scope of WikiProject Anime and manga, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of anime and manga. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page (Talk). See our portal to learn more.
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Right, I've quickly merged the manga-characters-tree and anime-characters tree, there are obviously quite a few things still to do here, feel free to strike items off the list below if you do them. --zippedmartin 01:25, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

• Check current current information on this page for copyvio and innaccuracy
• Fill in obvious blanks and clarify the differences between the manga and anime a little better
• Add a brief overview of the characters for the head of the article
• Fix the half-hearted numbering, perhaps noting differences between order of appearance between manga and anime
• Perhaps add pics for characters, should be allowable under fair use

Contents 1 UGH Vandalism! 2 Grammar, spelling, punctuation, and rumors 3 Re - Pictures 4 Needs voice actors 5 Senpai or sempai? 6 Name Origins? 7 Kuroneko Rem? 8 Vash didn't kill Legato 9 UGH Vandalism! 10 Grammar, spelling, punctuation, and rumors 11 Vash's real name? 12 Legato's arm 13 Redirecting bullets 14 Knives Name... 15 Split? 16 WHERE THE HECK IS THE BRILLIANTDYNAMITESNEON ARTICLE?!

[edit] UGH Vandalism!

All right, we need to restore the article. It seems an act of vandalism has removed sections on Vash, Milly, Meryl, other characters, and has added some stuff that isn't correct at all to other sections. Anyone have a copy of the text for any of these characters?

EDIT: The vandal is either Joturner or 80.154.29.58.

[edit] Grammar, spelling, punctuation, and rumors

I've had to edit up grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors that look as if they were made by people with little to no education at all. Look, Wikipedia is not your personal messageboard. At the very least, capitalize proper names and the first word of each new sentence, use a period at the end of each sentence, and check your spelling.

As for rumors, either don't post them until they're verified, or clearly label them as speculation and not fact. Also, there are some rumors that have been unequivocally shot down: for example, there is NO "hospital scene" with Knives at the end of the anime. Vash isn't secretly female. Posting things like these that are false and proven as such only tanks our credibility.

millyfan 09:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re - Pictures

Yeah, images of the characters is fine under fair use policy. Not to mention I've seen other anime character listings (Full Metal Alchemist is the main one that comes to mind) use character images without explicit permission. They're under the fair use as well, I'd assume.

Speaking of pictures I uploaded a better pic of Vash on the front page. It should be fair-use. AgentSmith15 05:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Needs voice actors

This article needs to list both the Japanese and English voice actors. There aren't nearly as many voice actors in this field as you'd think (particularly when it comes to English translations) and so it's often illuminating and interesting to be able to see what disparate characters from multiple anime are all voiced by the same person. --Cyde Weys _talk^contribs 08:37, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Alrighty, someone put in the English voice actors, so I finally motivated myself to go through and put in the Japanese ones. I'm surprised that there weren't any edit conflicts, considering how long it took me to do, and how often this article is edited. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find Kuroneko-sama's seiyuu, not even in the "Trigun the 2nd Donut *Happy Pack*" CD insert. Meh. -- Rablari Dash 06:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Senpai or sempai?

I've seen various anime pages edited to change "senpai" or "sempai" and vice-versa. Are they the same thing? I know "r" and "l" are equivalent in Japanese but is it the same for "m" and "n"? Wikipedia seems to prefer senpai, as sempai is just a link to it, so unless someone can give me some sort of reason I'll change occurrences of "sempai" to "senpai" where I see 'em.

Also, in all of the fansubs I've seen it's always written as "senpai". --Cyde Weys _talk^contribs 20:43, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

It's a romanization issue. The kana 'ん' has been romanized under various systems as either n or m, sometimes depending on what letter immediately follows it. The same is not true for the な and ま lines, they are 'na' and 'ma', respectively. Anyway, according to WP:MOS-JA, the Wikipedia standard is to romanize ん as n, except when it's ambiguous (followed by a vowel or y, in which case it could be confused with な, にゃ, etc.) in which it should be romanized n'. Also, if the official romanization uses m, or if it is more common to romanize it as m, then it might be a good idea to use m in that instance, rather than n. Following these guidelines, 'senpai' would be correct. -- Rablari Dash 02:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name Origins?

I heard some people talking in French a few days ago, and they were talking about this little plastic cow thing, and the word they used sounded like "Vash". Sure enough, I do some searching on the internet, and it turns out that the French word for "cow" is "vache". Also, "le gâteau" means "the cake" in English. Thus, it has been suggested by a number of Trigun fans that "Vash" and "Legato" may have been based on those French words. Does anyone know if there's anything to back this up, or do we just chalk it down to coincidence? If I had only heard of this when I had the chance to ask Nightow myself... But we'd still need a reference. -- Rablari Dash 00:56, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Another note: I seriously doubt that Wolfwood's middle name is "Dokonokuminomonjawaresumakinishiteshizumetarokakora". It's just another of Nightow's joking responses to people when they ask what the "D." stands for. For some reason, people have latched on to it, and spread it around. Mostly because they don't recognize it for what it it: A sentence in Japanese. Actually, it's two or three. I've tried translating it, without much success. It's so slangy, but from what I can get out of it, and what I've read online, it's a yakuza-sounding (read: may not ever be said by real Yakuza, but only stereotypical Yakuza in films) phrase roughly meaning "What family do you think you're from? I'm gonna tie you up and dunk ya (till you drown)!".

Anyway, my point was that it was just a joke, same as all the other responses Nightow has made to the questions he gets over and over again. Every interview, every con panel, he gives different answers. This is just another one, and it's a joke. I'm going to note such on the article. -- Rablari Dash 05:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Wait wait wait wait... You're smart enough to get that that's a joke, but seriously think that Bluesummers is named after le gâteau rather than legato (Italian). Look, Nightow just picked a bunch of western words that were either slightly appropriate for the character or he just liked the sound out. Ignorant fan speculation can stay on the bbses, the fact that most anime articles are a combination of plot summaries, character lists, western fans misunderstandings, and absolutely no proper sources is what makes them quite so dire. --zippedmartin 17:25, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll take "smart enough" as a compliment, but I'd hold that the reason was more due to my familiarity with the Japanese language. Also, if I "seriously" thought that Bluesummers was name after the french word, I would have put it in the article, rather bringing it for discussion here on the talk page.

I am familiar with the musical term legato, though I was not sure of its etymology. In any case, I did not think it as likely a reference, due to lack of thematic context. Characters in many Japanese stories are named in thematic pattern, whether it be after food, musical terms, or something else. The stories themselves often have a specific culture or language represented in the art, topic, use of loanwords, or setting.

While the obvious "theme setting" in Trigun is "Wild West", there are clues to indicate that it might also have German or French elements. I posted my speculation here in hopes that others would step forward with (sourced) confirmation or denial, and so that it might be in someone's mind should they get a chance to ask Nightow in an interview or at a convention.

On one hand, I will admit that the Japanese often pick and use foreign words incorrectly, or simply because of the way they sound. However, that does not preclude them from intelligently selecting foreign words that do carry relevent meaning. They are familiar with words and terms from other languages, certainly moreso than the average native English speaker.

And yes, I have also noticed that our anime articles are a terrible mess. That's what Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga is for, to help organize people's efforts on correcting this big mess. -- Rablari Dash 20:41, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

You misunderstand me. Look, wikipedia articles on Dickens aren't full of speculation over why he named 'Inspector Bucket' and etc that. It's just that the standard of anime critism is so low that any kind of teenage crap seems to pass as acceptable. I mean, wtf. --zippedmartin 20:53, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

The "great works" such as Dickens have already been analyzed to death by professionals and literary critics, most speculation has been debated and accepted or rejected by now. Anyone attempting to speculate on articles about classical works would be immediately asked to cite sources or otherwise prove their speculation. It's unlikely that the world at large will consider anime to be a valuable art form worth analyzing anytime soon, thus, the fans are the only ones who attempt it. On another note, many of our articles on Dickens' works are rather lacking in content, most likely due to the systemic bias of the Wikipedia. In any case, I imagine the standards for anime criticism will rise with public acceptance of the medium. -- Rablari Dash 07:13, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kuroneko Rem?

What's with this "Many speculate" thing on Kuroneko-sama being a reincarnation of Rem? That's the first I've ever heard that, and a Google search produced not a single page that mentions that rumor (besides this one). I would say that "many" is not the correct word to use in this situation.

However, I've seen it suggested that Kuroneko-sama is actually Legato, which is ridiculous, but shows how out of control rumors can get.

I think we'd actually have to be able to ask Nightow about this one.

I personally believe the most obvious: Kuroneko-sama is a joke meant to appear in every episode, hence hir appearance in episode 17, which seems to defeat the rumor.

I've always thought that Kuroneko-sama represented the passive God observing his creations without directing their affairs (through design or impotence), based on the theory that Trigun is a retelling of the life Christ. BethEnd 18:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vash didn't kill Legato

The Kuroneko-sama section says this: "Also, after Vash kills Legato late in the series, Kuroneko scratches him (the only violent interaction Kuroneko takes against Vash in the series); perhaps this is Rem's way of rebuking his decision." Later on, in the Millions Knives section, there's this: "At the end of the anime, Vash and Knives finally meet and have one last epic duel, in which Vash wins and carries Knives off, probably to try and change his perspective (and to Meryl and Milly). In Japan, there is an extra scene that was at the end of the last episode of Vash taking Knives to the hospital."

Are you perhaps confusing Knives with Legato here? Vash didn't kill Knives, but he did kill Legato (in the anime at least). Dizzy D 20:28, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh my god, I am a moron. Sorry.

[edit] UGH Vandalism!

All right, we need to restore the article. It seems an act of vandalism has removed sections on Vash, Milly, Meryl, other characters, and has added some stuff that isn't correct at all to other sections. Anyone have a copy of the text for any of these characters?

EDIT: The vandal is either Joturner or 80.154.29.58.

[edit] Grammar, spelling, punctuation, and rumors

I've had to edit up grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors that look as if they were made by people with little to no education at all. Look, Wikipedia is not your personal messageboard. At the very least, capitalize proper names and the first word of each new sentence, use a period at the end of each sentence, and check your spelling.

As for rumors, either don't post them until they're verified, or clearly label them as speculation and not fact. Also, there are some rumors that have been unequivocally shot down: for example, there is NO "hospital scene" with Knives at the end of the anime. Vash isn't secretly female. Posting things like these that are false and proven as such only tanks our credibility.

millyfan 09:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vash's real name?

"Valentinez Alkalinella Xifax Sicidabohertz Gombigobilla Blue Stradivari Talentrent Pierre Andri Charton-Haymoss Ivanovici Baldeus George Doitzel Kaiser the Third, a unique alias he presented to Wolfwood a little ways into the anime"

IIRC, when Wolfwood asks Vash who he really is, Vash replies with "My name's irrelevant." This was in Japanese with English subtitles. a thing 07:34, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Must have been in the English DVD AgentSmith15 05:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Legato's arm

I know it is in the anime, but has the manga-version Vash's arm grafted to him as well? Dizzy D 10:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Redirecting bullets

Shouldn't something be said of Vash's ability to redirect bullets. The whole gun turnament he kept people from being killed, so it isn't just him dodging, plus when it shows where bullets land behind him there's usually an outline around where he is. Hackwrench 05:53, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Knives Name...

This really isn't wiki related, I just had to say this... who names a child Knives? I mean really, who in their right mind names a kid Knives, and then expects him NOT to be a homicidal maniac? Whoever named him (I'm talking in the context of the series, not the writer) must have been an absolute moron. I mean KNIVES!? The only thing knives are good for is stabbing/cutting into things, as everyone knows. By nature it's a device used to slice things. Bah, villains with villainous names... that's like naming a child Jeeves and expecting him not to be a buttler. Lol, really though, they might as well have named him "Stabby McGee". --Venomaru 18:55, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it's one of those many things that mangaka don't usually bother thinking about in advance... But yeah, whoever named Knives (presumably Rem, since she took care of them from pretty early on, didn't she?) either was prescient, or made a really bad mistake. Or maybe she named Vash, and Steve named Knives ^_~ Really though, I imagine Nightow just gave the characters names that fit their adult selves, and didn't bother to rethink things when he decided to discuss their childhood. Probably would have been a good idea to give Knives a different name as a child, and say that he renamed himself Knives when he decided to go on his extinction spree. -- Rablari Dash 05:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly. It's a fitting name for him as an adult, no doubt about that. But you have to wonder, if this was a real boy... how much negative affect would a name like Knives have on him growing up? Perhaps in the far future that is the Trigun universe, on Earth Knives was a common name: like Jim, or John. Otherwise Rem (as I agree, she most likely named him) was just looking around the kitchen when she picked his name. No wonder he hated her, and humanity. xD --Venomaru 14:22, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Split?

This article is getting very long, so I suggest that it be split. Any thoughts on this?--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 01:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I would say split between anime and manga characters as a lot of the info in each profile is about the differences between both versions. Maybe give Vash his own page? Dizzy D 06:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm inclined to prefer the list in its current format. -Zero^Talk 23:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Vash should have his own page. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Seconded, as well as possibly Million Knives -Aknorals 15:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm very hesitant to execute that. Its reasonable to forsee that quite a bit of cruft will be introduced into it. -Zero^Talk 13:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty bulky as it is, and, like Zero says, it would only get worse if we started splitting the article... Then people might feel justified in adding even more unencyclopedic stuff. Really, the article needs some cleanup and trimming... But I've been too intimidated by the volume of edits as it is to do much (It takes me a long time to submit an edit, and edit conflicts can be a pain to resolve). -- Rablari Dash 06:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

First off, despite being on wikipedia quite some time, and reading Wikipedia:Fancruft a few times I'm still not sure what "cruft" is... it seems to mean something like "infomation that I don't find usefull that others might" ..... second off, by "cleanup and trimming" do you mean removing true information and encyclopedic information that readers might find helpfull or removing random speculation, etc? ...there's quite a big difference between the two... --Aknorals 15:12, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

While the Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia, that does not also mean that it has no reasonable limits or rules. There are a great many other things that the Wikipedia is not. It's still an encyclopedia, and should be written to serve the readers, not the writers. The reasonable limit to the information stored on the wikipedia is not one of space, but of convenience to the reader. Just because something is true doesn't mean that it should be in an encyclopedia. We want to provide a summary of a topic, a guide to all human knowledge, not the entirety of human knowledge itself. How much should the reader have to read through / skip over / skim in order to find the information they're looking for? So the issue is one of organization. If the reader has to scroll through too much text or follow too many links in order to find the information they're looking for, then the Wikipedia is not efficiently serving the needs of the reader.

So the goal is to provide the information that readers desire in as concise a fashion as possible, with links to more detailed information. The Wikipedia is not supposed to replace the internet, it's supposed to supplement it. It's not a matter of whether I personally find the information useful, it's a matter of whether the person wanting to find any given piece of information in the article will be able to find it in a timely manner. "Cleanup and trimming" ranges from condensing by writing something more concisely without losing information (removing redundancy) to removing information that is unhelpful to the reader. Article have to cater to a broad range of audiences. For example, this article needs to be accessible to people who have never watched Trigun, or maybe have never even seen any anime. On the other end, it should also provide useful information even to a devoted Trigun fan. So the article should contain a lot of information. However, we want to keep individual articles small, to cater to 1) people with poor internet access, 2) people who just want a summary, and don't want to have to read a very long article just to get a basic understanding of the topic. So splitting the article becomes a necessity at some point. But we need to make sure that we don't lose our focus or our readers in the process! Thus, they should remain concise as possible, and well cross-referenced.

So, in an attempt to condense my own ramblings here, I'd say that information falls into one of four categories: 1) simple, encyclopedic truth, 2) information better gained by actually experiencing the topic (reading the manga, watching the anime), 3) unsourced speculation, 4) content that belongs in another article. Our job is to write and organize #1, direct people to another source for #2, remove #3 from the article, and move #4 to the article it belongs in. I don't think we'll find much argument about that, though I can forsee some argument as to what belongs in what category. But it's good to have somewhere to start. -- Rablari Dash 03:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Vash should have had his own article from the very beginning, considering he's the main character of the anime. :P It shall be done!--Kross^Talk 17:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and split off Knives aswell.--Kross^Talk 18:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I've split off the Gung-Ho Guns, since they are the main atagonists of the series.--TBCTaLk?!? 20:15, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I am going to merge back all sub-articles (Vash the Stampede, Nicholas D. Wolfwood, Millions Knives, and Gung-Ho Guns) that remain completely unsourced and consist of 90% {spoiler} wrapped sections that treat Trigun as if were not fiction. If you think they should be seperate articles make them encylopedia articles. --zippedmartin 14:36, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted the merge as their was no prior discussion or consensus. Either way though, I agree that the articles need to be cleaned up, so I'll do it right now...--TBCΦtalk? 19:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

No discusion or concensus? The note has been up for several weeks! It's not even bold suggesting a change, then implimenting it weeks later. Merging back and editing down unsourced forks is hardly an encyclopedia breaking act, please commit whatever changes you've made so I can merge them back into the cut down version of this article I'm working on. Reverting GOOD FAITH edits 'with popups' to unsourced variants without discussion or consensus is clearly not helpful. --zippedmartin 19:20, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

By "no discussion or consensus", I meant that no one else has agreed with you on merging the articles. In fact, judging from the previous consensus on splitting the articles, many users here would most likely disagree with you. Anyhow, I'm currently adding sources and cleaning up the articles, so you don't have to fret.--TBCΦtalk? 19:47, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WHERE THE HECK IS THE BRILLIANTDYNAMITESNEON ARTICLE?!

Christ, I put together that wonderful article about my fav character and some idiot removes it? PUT IT BACK. You guys remember it right?

"Brilliant Dynamites Neon (Voice actor- Michael Gregory) <<<(Not sure that's right. Jack Dallas I think is the voice actor. Dunno who added that part, I just did the main body)

is the leader of a large gang of armed bandits known as the Badlads. He's an enormous man, bulging with muscles and wearing clothing decked out with neon lights covering almost every inch of his body. He encounters Vash while raiding a sandsteamer Vash happened to be traveling on, and after the ensuing chaos the two decide to have a duel, to determine the fate of the sandsteamer. Neon was planning on sending the Steamer over a cliff in order to smash open a safe in the hull of the sandsteamer.

After a brief exchange of gunfire, both of them walk away damaged from the duel, though Vash escaped with no wounds inflicted by Neon, but by a member of the Badlads that had shot Vash earlier in the episode when he hesitated to shoot to kill (however, it is worth noting that in Episode 9, Vash states he was "shot by the leader of the Badlads", leading to some confusion). The wound had opened up during the duel, and had resulted in the draw. Neon was angry that he had only come out even because of Vash's wound, but kept true to his word to spare the sandsteamer from destruction if he was defeated.

Neon is one of the most intriguing characters in the entire series. On the one hand, he is definitely a sociopath, interested in "brilliance," "fun," "glory," and "beauty." While living this ultra-violent lifestyle, he seems to have a distinct sense of honor, feeling a moral obligation to those as "brilliantly flashy" as he. While the former is far more present in this episode than the latter, both are there within the episode.