Talk:Marianne Faithfull

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Contents 1 Discussion 2 Marianne Faithfull 3 Revert 4 How is she related to Leopold von Sacher-Masoch? 5 Mars Bar incident 6 Category 7 Place of birth? 8 Down and out / Mars Bar? 9 Cleanup 10 More cleanup..... 11 Marianne v. Marian 12 Wikipedia guidelines (re: name)

[edit] Discussion

Made some changes. Mick and Marianne never married (and hence never divorced), but cohabitated for a long time.

[edit] Marianne Faithfull

(one woman's take - )by "A face in the Crowd" 76.211.19.64 Nan Nicks

i am in awe that a woman so deemed fragile...(arent titles decieving?) never gone...just didnt seek attention. i am at once struck by the earthy simplicity of Ms Faithfull's beginning works....& dont care for the history...(i have my hall of mirrors too....& no one believed me either)she knows much of life, possesses wisdom and uncanny timing. after not hearing that amazing voice for many years...i did....a forerunner and silent audience to many who endured love in the way she so effortlessly has describedd in the giving rise to her voice.... this is one woman...who among millions touched my heart....claims no pretense twould appear...and i am intruiged that not more actually saw this phenom until it was passed in time.... however...regret isnt something she advertisees...she speaks a truth, and many languages of it at that. few i have ever heard...can so effortlesly sing in what seems to be one breath...making me weep inside. i may never hear all of her works....but, will not forget the emblazened scar of bitersweet reality of my own 'certain days'....this i know to be true. i am not fond of crowds....i deal with it....Ms Faithfull is a strong woman....proved points...& passed through a myriad (it seems) transformations.... honesty a virtue? here it is the appetizer. no, i may never see her perform...though we all have that once upon a time....Ms. Faithfull thank you for having been a part of mine. I can only say i still (sometimes )cry at the rising of your voice...and smile...even stiller than i knew myself to be...please know, that one who (me) doesnt make a rule of postings...has had to make an exception. here is a fair fine and genuine genius...i can only say....Ms. Faithfull i wish you well..always...and Thank you --- all i can now say spent of myself... is please write...and know though we cant express as you do....the feeling is there to repay...which i cant in kind...tho' life being so fluid..on the wings of time..i wish you well..knowing ...thats one lady who never backed down...had an unkind word..whose honesty was so pure it nearly drove a psyche mad.....(not mine) -- "sister sister hear me now...if i could i would just to know...that you would be,only if you chose to....requalify, laugh in the face of demons....if i could ever take that pain for what your music gave to me i would..." so much for intentions. hello...i lied..but this i meant. back to self styled seclusion. thanks for bearing with my waxing here..not my intention. bye.

Now Gone...."A Face in the Crowd" Nen Thank You 04 02 05 7:52 a.m.

[edit] Revert

Being bold, I have reverted the last edit. It didn't add anything to the article, but replaced it entirely, and with text that was not very encyclopediaic or NPOV. The new information in it could be added to the current one in a better way, and I find it sensible to revert for now. If you disagree, do let me know. EldKatt 16:10, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] How is she related to Leopold von Sacher-Masoch?

I would have entered a link to him, but I wasn't sure how they are related. Some sources say her mother was his daughter & call her Eva von Sacher-Masoch, others say she was his great-niece and call her Eva Erisso. Does anybody besides her know for sure? Tweeq 15:43, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

An 2004 article in the Independent claimed her to be his great-niece, her mother being Eva Baroness Erisso. You can find the article at http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/article28271.ece , but you have to pay if you want to read the whole thing. Sources for the claim are not stated in this article.

[edit] Mars Bar incident

I have reverted the deletion of the reference to the Mars Bar incident as it is a oft-mentioned aspect of MF's early life (so much so that it is raised directly with her in national newspaper interviews). It is therefore incumbent on Wikipedians to (a) acknowledge the reality of the claim (b) reflect the fact that she has denied it ever taken place (c) reflect the fact that her account has been confirmed by others. Robma 07:20, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category

I have removed the category "Category:Jewish-British people|Faithfull, Marianne". Faithfull is 1/3 Jewish. Does this really qualify her to be listed in the category? I could see if someone were fully Czech, or even a half Nigerian, but a third is sort of over reaching, isn't it?

Please sign your posts on talk pages per Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth 00:11, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry, that was me and not intentional! Merely forgetfulness! ExRat 03:31, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Place of birth?

The Independant newspaper reported Hemel Hempstead as her birth place in an interview recently, but most sources say Hampstead. Which is correct? Lumos3 17:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I've done a search of all UK national newspaper interviews with MF over the last 20 years, and only the Independent interview (published 16/10/2004) gives Hemel Hemstead as her birthplace. Indeed, the Independent itself stated Hampstead to be her place of birth in an interview published on 17/11/1999. So in the absence of any good evidence to the contrary, I think we should stick with Hampstead, as per the current edit.Robma 07:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Down and out / Mars Bar?

I remember hearing from BBC Radio4 that she was homeless on the streets at some point - I'd like to know more about it. And the Mars Bars incident - please supply more info about this fictional event as it sounds very intriguing!

Google Marianne + "mars bar". The first hit is Snopes which has the full story, or non-story if you will.

I really don't see the relevance of mentioning Faithfull's supposed parentage of an Austro-Hungarian baroness, since the Habsburg dynasty ended 30 years before she was born, and Austria-Hungary was broken up, and Austria became a republic without a monarchy. The woman who gave birth to her may have been a baroness at one time, but certainly not when she was born.

[edit] Cleanup

I did some minor grammatical tweaking on this article....

The structure isn't so bad as it is now, but this article really, REALLY needs some serious citations and sources for its content. There are almost no sources cited in here, and a few of these things are questionable. I am going to try and search for some good source documents that will support much of what's written in here. NickBurns 14:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More cleanup.....

I now have her bio/autobio and am probably going to do some restructuring of the article based on what citations I find, etc. Just an FYI.....NickBurns 02:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marianne v. Marian

In August this year, MF's name was changed to "Marian" on the basis of a single reference from a relatively obscure website. In contrast, there is not a single usage of this spelling in any of the 3000+ citations to MF on the Lexis-Nexis database of international press cuttings dating back over 20 years. Indeed, only two interviews mention her middle name; both give the conventional spelling of her first name as Marianne (see eg Evening Times (Glasgow) on July 28, 2003 Pg. 19). In addition, references to "Marianne Faithfull" outnumber those to "Marion Faithfull" by 1,800 to 1. I'd suggest, therefore, that the appearance of "Marian" in the cited ref is the result of a simple spelling error Robma 19:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. In any case, even if the person's legal or birth name is different, the name by which they are best known (and, also, the one that the article is attached to) should be in that first sentence. Then, of course, details about birth names, alternate spellings, etc. can be included. NickBurns 20:28, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted the reversion re Marian as there is, as my original comment stated, no evidence from Lexis-Nexis profiles showing that this spelling was ever applicable to MF, at birth or professionally. Of course, if you know of credible evidence, please cite, then revert. Robma 20:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I have now received email confirmation from MF's agent, Sara Bessadi, that the original spelling was Marian, and have amended the relevant parts of the entry accordingly. Robma 14:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia guidelines (re: name)

Here's Wikipedia's guidelines on bios. It doesn't really suggest one correct way over the other.

While the article title should generally be the name by which the subject is most commonly known, the subject's full name should be given in the lead paragraph, if known. Many cultures have a tradition of not using the full name of a person in everyday reference, but the article should start with the complete version. For example:

• (from Fidel Castro): Fidel Castro Ruz (born August 13, 1926) …
• (from François Mitterrand): François Maurice Adrien Marie Mitterrand (October 26, 1916 – January 8, 1996) …
• (from Brian Jones): Lewis Brian Hopkin Jones (28 February 1942 – 3 July 1969) …

In some cases, subjects have changed their names at some point after birth. In these cases the birth name should be given as well:

• (from Bill Clinton): William Jefferson Clinton (born William Jefferson Blythe III on August 19, 1946) …

It is common to give the maiden surname of women better known under their married name, for example:

• Lucy Washington (née Payne) (1772?–1846) was the wife of Thomas Todd. She was the first woman married in the White House, in 1812.

An alternate form Lucy (Payne) Washington is also widely accepted in genealogical circles.

But in all cases, a woman should be called by the name she is most widely known under. Elizabeth Taylor, even though she was married eight times, would not be referred to under those other surnames.

For people who are best known by a pseudonym, the birth name should usually appear first in the article, followed closely by the pseudonym. Follow this practice even if the article itself is titled with the pseudonym:

• Louis Bert Lindley, Jr. (June 29, 1929 – December 8, 1983), better known by the stage name Slim Pickens…

Alternatively, the birth name can appear in apposition to the pseudonym:

• Boris Karloff (November 23, 1887 – February 2, 1969), born William Henry Pratt, was an actor best known for his roles in horror films. He was initially billed as "Karloff" and sometimes as "Karloff the Uncanny".

It is not always necessary to spell out why the article title and lead paragraph give a different name. Care must be taken to avoid implying that a person who does not generally use all their forenames or who uses a familiar form has actually changed their name. Therefore: "Johnny Reid "John" Edwards (born June 10, 1953) …" is preferable to saying that John Edwards was born with the name Johnny Reid Edwards.

Once the most common name has been determined, remember to add the full names and alternate names as redirects. For example, "William Jefferson Clinton" would be added as a redirect to "Bill Clinton". This will prevent others from moving the article later, to what they may believe is the proper name for the article. This also lets future editors know that the chosen shortened name was not an oversight, but was carefully planned. NickBurns 16:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)