Talk:Marseille

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Contents 1 Name 2 Massilia 3 White Space 4 New Infobox Template proposition 5 Temperature Oddity 6 a visit to marseille 7 crime 8 Images 9 Economy 10 Pytheas 10.1 Citoyen Kane

[edit] Name

(The English spelling "Marseilles" is falling out of usage.) The French person who wrote this is misinformed. Just google 'Marseilles'. So French! Imagine an American telling a Frenchman that the right spelling of Versailles was "Versaille." Many French spell New York "New-York." We never correct them, because it absolutely doesn't matter. Wetman 20:58, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I'd say they were right. The spelling with an -s was always a bit bizarre and etymologically unjustified, and I have never heard anyone actually say Marseilles (the -s would be pronounced in English). Chameleon 13:33, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

So the "s" in Lyons would be pronounced too, then? On a cheerier note, I was just coming back to suggest to more knowledgeable Wikipedians that this stubby entry could be expanded by referring to "What links here." Many suggestions there. Wetman 07:41, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'd be much obliged to Wetman if he could stop making country-wide generalizations ("so French!" etc.). David.Monniaux 19:32, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Particularly since I have also written (and had it reverted) that "Marseilles" is falling out of usage...and I'm English, not French. For the record, I haven't seen the terminal "-s" in publications for many years, except in very old travel guides. There isn't a terminal "-s" in Lyon either, so I'm not sure what all that is about. Ah well, Americans always did hold to old-fashioned spellings longer than anyone else (yes, that was indeed another sweeping generalisation ;)) -- Necrothesp 01:59, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Cours Julien I thought it would be nice to add the "cours julien" on the "sights" section. Unfortunely I haven´t got a photo to upload.. If anyone does...

I will be visiting Marseille in early April 2006, so I'll try to update this page especially in terms of photos when I get back. What is the Cours Julien? I'll try to get a photo of it if I can. User:Adrian.Denegar

FWIW, I have heard the pronunciation of roughly mah-sales for Marseilles, but only in UK English. I can't say if that's considered an acceptable alternative in the UK, but it sounds very uneducated from a North American perspective. However, UK English is often much more extreme in Anglicizing foreign names and words than North American English -- e.g. pasta with the first vowel as in past, pastel with stress on first syllable, etc.

But WRT spelling, Google (English-only) returns 21 million for Marseille and 6 million for Marseilles. (Removing language preference changes it to 63 million vs. 6.5 million.) So the current article title Marseille is quite appropriate. There is a general but very gradual trend in English to reduce arbitrary alterations to foreign names (e.g., writing the French king Lewis XV or Frankfort for Frankfurt-am-Main.) Tkinias 14:23, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not just an English thing. There's a general trend in this globalizing world for people just to take verbatim the names that other people give themselves, in their own language, wherever practical. Fwiw, I don't mind us retaining English *names* for foreign places (Florence rather than Fiorenza, Cologne rather than Köln...), but broken English spellings that are just historical accidents...no thanks. Ok, I live in Lyon[s] so I'm even more biased, but think that Wikipedia should be aiming to educate, rather than reinforce mistakes. Florence is a logical anglicisation. Cologne is understandable (Köln uses an unknown consonant cluster in English), Marseilles...no justification. Stevage 14:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I actually searched for this page buy typing in Marseilles (I am English and pronounce this exactly the same as you would 'Marseille'.) So there is at least one English speaker who uses this alternative spelling! :) Jonwood1 17:27, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

It will be Roma next. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:46, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

This change was noted 80 years ago in Modern English Usage (or maybe later in The King's English). Fowler also noted that the French pronunciation was replacing the English, so I assume the s had commonly been pronounced. It is inconsistent (why not Roma, after all?), but usage is inconsistent. I still spell it with an s, but I'm a way old fart. John FitzGerald 22:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Stevage, what in the world made you think that Florence's italian name was Fiorenza? I don't even see it on Google. It is Firenze, of course. I have noticed other cases where anglosaxons use another spelling of a city's name thinking it's the original, like in Genoa(Italy). Genoa is correct in Ligurian Italian, but not in Toscan Italian, which is the "standard" Italian nowadays. The correct spelling is Genova.--Stormy Ordos 16:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Massilia

I've piped the redirect for Massilia to Marseille#Ancient. Could I have a hand in adding a Massilia link to any pages about ancient history mentioning Massilia where there is no Massilia link? Neddyseagoon 19:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)neddyseagoon

A few days ago, I added a disamb that has been removed. [1] The wiki Massilia redirects to Marseille. However, there is a boat with the same name and the article The Vichy 80, refers to it. Maybe your guys could find a way to have a disamb. Tony 04:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] White Space

Is there a way to make it so there isn't a huge white space between the header for the History section and the actual start of the text in the section? I haven't played with Wikipedia enough to know how to do that, and I don't want to use this article as a sandbox.ONUnicorn 16:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

There's always the "preview" button. However, I don't see a "huge white space"? There's an expansion template...if there's too much space around it for your liking, delete one or two of the carriage returns? Stevage 14:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Infobox Template proposition

I'd like to bring your attention to a new - or other - version of the "Large French Cities" infobox presently at use in a few French cities pages. The present version is much too large, partly because it consecrates too much space to information having little importance to French demography and an only distant and indirect relevence to the city itself. Instead I propose to follow a less cumbersome model closer to that used by the New York City article - you can view the new version in the Paris talk page here. Please view and comment. THEPROMENADER 22:23, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

As a result of some discussion over the past weeks, there is an updated template available for perusal in its 'published ' form (filled with data) here - all comments welcome. -- THEPROMENADER 07:26, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Temperature Oddity

It seems odd that Marsielle's(s') July temperature would average around the 20s considering its location. Is the section on temperatures correct? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jonwood1 (talk • contribs).

It is the average temperature, not the average high temperature. --Bob 18:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I added a table displaying the averages across the year from weatherbase.

[edit] a visit to marseille

I visited marseille this summer during a tour in southern europe. Unfortunately, i have to say that it is the filthiest city in Europe!!! It's a great pity that a city with such a great history and fantastic old buildings is left totally abandoned! All the streets are full of garbage, there is a terrible smell everywhere, especially near the old port, and even large chains of fast food like mc donalds,haagen dazs etc are also extremely dirty. I don't think that any European traveller will enjoy the stay in Marseille.

--- This comment should be removed or seriously moderated. It is up to european, or any travelers to decide whether they enjoy marseille or not. Broad, generalist statements like this one are not useful in a encycopdic entry. At the moment the city is undergoing a massive urban reconstruction program, leaving many parts of the city looking like a construction site. One of the goals is to change public transportation by building a tramway line, that is currently (oct 2006) still being constructed and is planned to start running in June 2007. Marseille could be undergoing a similar reconstruction phase that Barcelona went through after the olympic games in 1992.

The fact is, Marseille is alive. You may be a kind of homo sapiens used only to orthogonal roads and orthogonal countries, but it is up to every human, every fish and every macdonald's to decide whether he enjoys the second capital of France. --Stormy Ordos 16:14, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] crime

This page is sorely lacking a paragraph about crime statistics in a city that has become known as a problem spot for criminal activity in France. Someone should consider digging up relevant statistics that will turn this page into something other than an advertisement by the city's tourism center.

Yes crime is big in Marseille, but unbeknown to most, Cannes has the highest crime rate in France. Whodda thought. --Bob 16:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

The article is overloaded with images and has huge visual gaps because there are too many images. A gallery would be far more suited to the article; it would still display the excellent photos of the article and allow for greater expansion of an image collection of Marseille. I will put it on my to do list but perhaps instead someone would like to make a gallery and tidy up the format of the article in general?

I have created a gallery to make the page a lot tidier and have added some information, mainly on the economy and population.LordHarris 11:36, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Ive also wrote a bit and tidied up the history section. LordHarris 13:45, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I have recently visited Marseille and have expanded most of the sections. I have written a new section on geography, extended the history and the sights section and have edited the sights section by location to make it more readable. I have amended the assessment scale of the article from a start class article to a B class article since it is too comprehensive to be only a start class article. LordHarris 11:10, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Economy

I have three small problems with the economy section: Firstly, while the Port of Marseille is the biggest in France, and possibly he Med, in terms of size, it has fallen from the top spot in terms of goods passing through each year - Barcelona and Genoa having become arguably more important. Even with in France, Le Havre is catching up with Marseille. The city's Dockers and their penchant for la grève (strike) have undermined the ports reliability.

Secondly, I was always of the impression that Nice and Lyon airports were in fact busier than that of Marseille-Maringane, which has no non-European destinations other than those to the Maghreb and Dakar.- the airport has also just built a new 'Budget' terminal to attract more flights from the likes of Ryanair, hardly the sign of a booming airport.

Thirdly, the translation of Marseille Provence Metropolis is clearly wrong - what would be a better English rendering? Having spent a year there last year, I have to say that the city is not as straightforward as the tourist brochure which we see just now on this page - that's what makes it so exciting and unique, if not exactly beautiful. AlenWatters 21:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pytheas

If anyone happens to be in Marseille could they please take a photo of the statue of Pytheas and put it on this article. Thanks.

Hi, ive got several photos of statues that I took in Marseille, though I dont know what they are though I know where I took them, so I might have a photo if you can tell me where the statue is? LordHarris 23:57, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citoyen Kane

What are the locals called? (Don't say French. ;)) Trekphiler 01:53, 6 April 2007 (UTC)