Talk:Montgomery Burns

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WHY DOES Ahoy wiki link to this article and Ahoy-Hoy link to this article. I don't know how to change it but I was searching for the article on the greeting and certainly not an article on Mr. Burns mcwiggin 14:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 Biography 2 Name change 3 His Medical Conditions 3.1 Poll 4 Burns apperance... 5 New Mexico 6 Burns' Age 7 On Burns' Age... 8 Burns' office 9 Ahoy-hoy 10 Scottish? 11 Disambiguation header required? 12 Davros?? 13 Birthplace 14 Major Cleanup Required 15 Real life models 16 Cuba 17 Voice actor clarification 18 Age could be 4 digits? 19 Birth year 20 81 21 Splitting up the article 22 Wealth 23 Burns' age and the ATM-machine 24 Major Edits 25 Burns' Age

[edit] Biography

Does anyone else think the "Biography" is a bit much? I mean, The Simpsons has never put much effort into continuity until lately, so most of the references to his past are in blatant contradiction of each other. For instance, how could he have been America's "richest and therefore most trustworthy citizen" at the end of WWII in the one where he steals the trillion dollar bill, and yet, not long before, desire to become "rich as Nazis" in the one with the Flying Hellfish? elvenscout742

Well, it's been well established that Mr. Burns got his fortune from inheriting it from the loveless billionaire who raised him. He could well have served in WWII, got caught up in the excitement of the moment with regard to the treasure, and shortly after the discovery of the loot by the Flying Hellfish but before the end of the war that Billionaire died leaving him the Burns Business Empire. His line about building shells for the Nazis probably therefore referred not to his personal actions, but to the business he inherited and in later years sees it as all the same. The only real problem with this is that Mr. Burns would have been 53 during the fall of Nazi Germany (going by the 1892 estimated date of birth), and that would have made him a little old to be a frontline infantryman, one would imagine that Monty Burns's war would have been World War I, which he would have only been 22 at the outbreak of the war, although references to that war wouldn't carry anywhere near the entertainment value to a modern audience. --Wingsandsword 16:22, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

What the article needs to be more explicit about is the change in Burns' character as the seasons went by. In the early days he was the typical ruthless autocrat, but the modern Burns is more of a senile buffoon, with the humnour coming from his outdated attitudes and pratfalls. This explains such inconsistencies as: "Burns also played golf with Nixon, who moaned to Burns about the Watergate scandal being exposed and fretted about going to prison. This suggests that Mr. Burns can pay close attention to modern events, but only if they interest him." -Again this was from Burns' 'smart era'. Magic Pickle 18:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

• Actually he got "bumped down to private" remeber Bart was curios as to why he was an Infranty himeself.

[edit] Name change

This article's name is blatantly incorrect. It should be at either Montgomery Burns or Charles Montgomery Burns. I'd prefer the former. I'm doing a poll to figure out where it should. Do not add new poll options

[edit] His Medical Conditions

"he still must have a lengthy operation once a week in order to stave off death — this leaves him in a blissful narcotic haze, with a pronounced radioactive glow." Isn't the healthy green glow is from a lifetime of exposure to radioactive waste?--Tellybelly 04:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poll

• I think this article should be moved to Montgomery Burns

1. →Raul654 03:50, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)
2. Not that it matters much, since I assume we'll keep all three redirects. Meelar 03:52, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

• I think this article should be moved to Charles Montgomery Burns

1. He's called "C. Montgomery Burns" on the show. I guess he's one of those people who doesn't like his first name. (elvenscout742 He's actually called "Mr. Burns". It should be changed to that.)

• He is almost always known as "Mr Burns". That should be the title, according to Wikipedia convention. Rd232 20:43, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Ditto.--Greasysteve13 14:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Burns apperance...

Does anyone else think Burns resembles John D. Rockefeller? This became evident to me when I say a movie with Rockefeller dress up in an old flying suit (goggles, scarf, etc). I want to get a general consensus on this before I add it.

A guy who isn't completely sure how to work Wikipedia yet: Yes, C. Montgomery Burns very much resembles John D. Rockefeller in his older age. Some parallels can be drawn also. Rockefeller was the most ruthless businessman in Oil Refinery, which was during his time the most advanced energy source. In teh Simpsons C. Montgomery Burns is portrayed as a ruthless businessman in what is the most advanced energy source of our time, nuclear physics.

[edit] New Mexico

I'm fairly certain it was Homer who was surprised to learn of the New Mexico. It was th'episode where Bart joins the junior campers, and th'only map Homer has is the Krustyburger location map. Looking at it, he announces "ooOOoo, there's a New Mexico." I used t'have the .wav file on my computer, and it's definitely Homer. Still, the Simpsons have recycled jokes ("Call him Poochy, but more proactive!" "So, Poochy good for everyone?" / "We'll call it 'Love Day' except more [something]" "Happy Love Day everyone!") so I can believe Mr. Burns said it too; does someone have an episode whence this notion comes?

I can't remember the episode, but I can distinctly remember Mr. Burns saying "There's a New Mexico?" in his questioning and accusatory voice. Sahasrahla 10:31, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

Burns said it in Homer's Odyssey. [1] Rd232 20:45, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Excuse me, but Burns said "There's a New Mexico?" in Homer vs. Dignity. Homer's Odyssey is from the first season.- B-101 14:48, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

My mistake - I was rushing and thought the article title on that link was the episode name. Rd232 22:40, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Burns' Age

In the episode "Future-Drama" he is 114 years old. Since the characters are still the same age from their 1989 start, that would mean 24 years have passed. Thus with simple math that makes Charles Montgomery Burns 90 years old. My defense for "the episode is non-canon" attack is that while the story may not be canon, time is and no matter how great Mr. Groening is he can't stop time and basic math.--User:71.240.172.121

In regards to his four digit PIN number, it's more likely that the PIN is only three digits, with the fourth entry being 'OK' or 'Enter'. Just my 100,000 cents. --User:206.172.224.137

Actually, did you not think of the PIN starting with "0" or "00"? ☺ The pathetic APclark Be nice not nasty 18:47, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

He can't be 104, because in Homer the Smithers, although Homer says he just punched him in his 104 year old face, Smithers later in the episode says that Mrs Burns is 112, and I believe rich girls giving birth at the age of 8 in the 1900s is a very very very very very very very very rare thing. Marge4 23:52, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

---

Didn't he say at one stage "I'm only 81"? 83.71.104.86 19:53, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

\if his birthday is placed in the "late eighteenth century" that s the 1700's and makes him over 200! Maelbrigda 23:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC) Useer:Maelbrigda

[edit] On Burns' Age...

ok... let's do this properly, anyone that has a reference for Burns' age, please cite it below... that way we can figure out what to put in the infobox... - Adolphus79 22:37, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

• "Episode title" - age
• "Future-Drama" - 90

We can put undetermined. Then, the various ages given in the show can be listed in the "Age" section and that will be that. There is no definitive answer, so many numbers have been given. --takethemud 06:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Burns' office

In "Homer the Smithers", Burns orders Homer to rotate his office so the window faces the hills. I thought that that line perfectly showed Burns' request for the impossible.- B-101 14:45, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ahoy-hoy

Not significant enough to go into the article, but I know a number of people who, no doubt influenced by Mr Burns, have started answering the phone in this way. PeteVerdon 14:47, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

• It was, I believe, Alexander Graham Bell's preferred way of doing so. He didn't like the word "hello". But, yes, CMB is doubtless responsible for the renaissance.

Yes, I'd heard that. But I doubt my friends (age 19-24ish) have. PeteVerdon 22:58, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Wrong. Bell said, "Hoy hoy", not "ahoy hoy". See [2]. --Xyzzyplugh 15:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish?

This article is in Category:Fictional Scots. Is Burns Scottish? Any sources for this? Or is it just based on his name? Vclaw 23:18, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Apart from his Scottish names (both Montgomery and Burns are famous Scots names) and that he is an obvious caricature of Andrew Carnegie (like Scrooge McDuck), there have been several references in various episodes to Burns' Scottish background, eg pictures of ancestors in kilts in his mansion.--Mais oui! 21:29, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I would say that he's such an obvious caricature, that he's not a carciature at all. He's an original creation, like Ronald Ruck, or Ricky Rouse. Theavatar3 19:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

So he has some Scottish ancestry, that doesn't necessarily make him Scottish. Still, you might want to add to add some of the references of his background to the article. And maybe add Carnegie to the "Real life models" section? Vclaw 10:56, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

I removed it because the category was noticed on a Simpsons forum, and everyone agreed that he wasn't Scottish. As Vclaw says above, he may have Scottish ancestry, but he isn't Scottish himself, and his parents didn't show any signs of being Scottish in a flashback. BillyH 15:17, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I think the charge of vandalism may have been because your edit was mistaken for one by a regular vandal who likes to say that a British character actor voices Monty Burns. I've reverted the categorization again because I haven't seen anything to support it: Burns is as much a cariacature of William Randolph Hearst and Howard Hughes as he is of Carnegie and a kilt in the background here or there is insufficient. We've never seen anything unambiguously Scottish in any episode that discusses his backstory(ies); he didn't mention it when he visited Scotland ... there's nothing to merit the categorization. Ben-w 21:58, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation header required?

User:Fred Bradstadt has removed the disambiguation notice:

For other characters named Burns, see Burns (disambiguation).

He used the rather un-Wikipedian Edit summary: "I don't see the need for a "Burns disambiguation" link on the "Montgomery Burns" page." (Is Wikipedia not supposed to be more of a "we" kind of place, rather than an "I" place?)

Anyway, do other editors support this removal, or is a standard disambiguation header a good idea?--Mais oui! 09:34, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi Mais oui!

Wikipedia:Disambiguation#When to disambiguate tells us: "Do not disambiguate, or add a link to a disambiguation page, if there is no risk of confusion. Ask yourself: When a reader enters this term and pushes "Go", what article would they realistically be expecting to view as a result? Disambiguation pages are not search indices;". I should have referred here instead of writing the "I don't see..." thing, I guess :-)

Though there are many ways to end up at this page (redirects Mr. Burns, Mr.Burns, Mr Burns, CM Burns, C M Burns, C. M. Burns, C. Montgomery Burns, C.Montgomery Burns, Charles Montgomery Burns, Monty Burns and disambig page Charles Burns), I still don't find the disambiguation link relevant. I think people who typed "Montgomery Burns" or any of the redirects really wanted to see this page. --Fred Bradstadt 10:51, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Agree with Fred. If someone as looking for a different Burns, they would exlpitly search for that different name. A disambiguation link would only be required if there ere other articles about other people called Montgomery Burns (or the redirects).

I see nothing wrong in his edit summary. It's accurately descriptive, and civil. The JPS 11:23, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Davros??

Burns tents his fingers simlarly to Davros, eh? Since Davros has (had) only one arm, this is clearly a mistaken analogy and it's got to go. Darcyj 12:26, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birthplace

In episode #1706, when asked for his place of birth by the panic room door, Burns enters Pangaea on a keypad... --Wulf 01:14, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe he said "Tangiers" to the voice prompt during 1706 but Pangea was already up on this site from months ago so these are two competing birthplaces.

I think it's safe to assume that Monty was not born on Pangaea. This is what we in the biz like to call "a gag." --Tellybelly 04:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major Cleanup Required

I think the time has come to create individual pages for the more unwieldy parts of this article, specifically, Mr. Burns' state of mind. This is a running list that clogs up the middle of the article. I propose the new article Montgomery Burns (state of mind) be used to document the list in its entirety, and the section of this main article that was formerly dedicated to this purpose be used in a general way for the casual reader. As Simpsons fans, we should attempt to make Wikipedia articles on Simpsons characters general, leaving the more specific information to be expounded upon in separate articles. takethemud 18:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)takethemud

I think something similar to the above suggestion should be carried out for the "Biography" section. It is long and unwieldy and would make an excellent article in-itself. Please see Montgomery Burns (biography) for the new article. Right now it is a duplicate of the Biography section of this article. It would be good, in my opinion, to cut down this biography section to make it readable, coherent, and more concise; then, the new article could be jam packed with every conceivably relevant piece of information on Burns' life. takethemud 18:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)takethemud

You shouldn't split of sections of a specific aspect of a character. That just makes a mess out of the situation. They aren't all that long and an article can go over the 30kb recommendation without being a problem. Instead, think about reducing the level of detail to shrink the article down. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 23:16, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Real life models

"...with notable similarities to Howard Hughes (for example, during a particular bout of eccentricity, he became paranoid about germs, wore tissue boxes on his feet, collected his urine in jars, and built a model plane which he dubbed the Spruce Moose)..."

Is this not a confusion with the Spruce Goose, the famous (very large and real) aircraft that Hughes built? Tamino 09:36, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cuba

He didn't know wwhat had happened in Cuba he completley missed the revolution and the the capitalists were still in charge should we mention this?

[edit] Voice actor clarification

Both Mr. Burns (and Moe) were originally voiced by a different actor, but he is not listed. Only Hank Azaria is listed in the case of Moe and Harry Shearer in the case of Burns. Their original actor is Christopher Collins. I was thinking that it should not only be part of the statistical table, but it should be written about in a paragraph somewhere. The wiki entry for Christopher Collins is not very complete, but IMDB has his resume, as does the wiki at Memory Alpha--Smacksaw 15:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Age could be 4 digits?

Under Age (under the picture) it states: unknown, assumed 80-104, could be 4 digits.

Anyone else feel the "could be 4 digits" to be a bit innapropriate for this article, which is otherwise quite professional and informative? I understand if the tone is following the comedy of the simpsons, but maybe someone else has an opinion on this.

100% agree. Four digits is basically saying he could be from 1000 to 9999 years old—I do not think so. I have removed it. Iolakana|^T 14:18, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

whrere is that list of mr. burns thoughts of whats going on like that donuts are ethnic food etc.

• He's 81 in Simpsons and Delilah and 104 in Who shot MB I. 104 is the official age.

• Agreed. Removing. Mechroneal 03:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

hey the 4th button he pressed was the enter key--Psychosismask 05:44, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Exactly the 4th button he pressed was the enter key--hoxygt 03:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birth year

I am removing this because the producers and creator have said that it is a sliding time frame for the show. Otherwise, Bart would be 29 years old since he was 10 when the shorts began in 1987 (so his birth year would have been 1977 then but 1996 now). This is also why they try and avoid mentioning specific dates (and how Homer was originally a teenager at Woodstock but later shown as a little kid at Woodstock). TJ Spyke 21:02, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 81

Mr. Burnes states himself that he is 81 years old in "Simpson and Delilah" (the one where he gets the hair medicine). This article states he is at least 100. Continuity error?

[edit] Splitting up the article

This article is very long and should be split up. The "Biography" section is very long as is the "State of Mind" section. I think it would be better to have "main articles" for each of these sections which could hold all of the information currently on this page (and whatever future information would be added to them). Then, the sections on this page could be shortened to hold only the most important information about Mr. Burns. Some time ago, I created articles for that purpose, Montgomery Burns (state of mind) and Montgomery Burns (biography), but they were deleted. With this article growing and growing and growing, it might be prudent to reconsider this idea and recreate those articles. What say you all? takethemud 23:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

No. Trim the info, tighten the language, do whatever is necessary, but the idea of creating an article to deal with the state of mind of a fictional character is way beyond the scope of Wikipedia. Isn't there a Simpsons wiki? CovenantD 07:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I gotta say, I disagree with you. First, Mr. Burns needs to be cleaned up - it's a top priority on the Simpsons Wikiproject. Not to be rude, but I don't know what it means for something to be "way beyond the scope of Wikipedia." I looked for stuff about Wikipedia's scope and I couldn't find anything- the closest thing I found was that Wikipedia shouldn't have a limited scope like a traditional paper encyclopedia. If there is something that says what Wiki's scope should be, please point it out to me. As I see it, Wikipedia is a great place to list things like statements that show Mr. Burns is out of touch. And it should include these things. To that end, I created this article: List of Mr Burns Statements. This would be a great place for people to add quotes by Mr. Burns that show his being out of touch with the present day. There are lists of awards won by the simpsons and the like, so why not have this list, too? Judging by the sheer volume of information about Mr. Burns' state of mind, it's obvious there's a significant level of interest in the subject - and Wikipedia should be there to meet that interest. I would think that one way to judge whether something is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia is how much interest there is in something - and given the limited raw information there is to work with, Mr Burns' article is more thorough and exhaustive than the articles about some countries. So why delete things that are in the public interest to keep? Why get rid of it because he's a fictional character? Let's keep this stuff alive and also keep it separate. takethemud 08:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Look at WP:NOT#IINFO. Also see Wikipedia:WikiProject_The_Simpsons#Large_Projects, specifically #4, which talks about lists of quotes. For that reason, I've redirected the page you created to this article. And in the future, when something is still being discussed, let that discussion play out before creating articles (especially ones with grammer and capitalization errors). CovenantD 00:16, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Alright, so I went through "State of Mind" and made it into a few paragraphs. I'm hesitant to cut the content out of the article and replace it with what I've made up without first getting input about it from others. So, maybe interested persons will take a look at these paragraphs, edit them as they see fit, and when they are acceptable, we can replace the State of Mind section with an edited version of this (minus the bullet points which are there only to differentiate the entry from the rest of this talk page):

• Mr Burns commonly uses phrases and expressions that have fallen out of common use, including score (meaning 20 years), twain (meaning two), post-haste (meaning quickly), petroleum distillate (meaning gasoline), gay (meaning jolly), dean (meaning principal), fourth form (meaning fourth grade), ahoy-hoy (meaning hello), jumping box and picto-cube (both meaning television), dictabelt (meaning tape recorder), and the New York Nine (meaning New York Yankees).

• Mr Burns also displays mannerisms which are considered outdated, such as writing with a quill pen, driving a Stutz Bearcat while wearing a Victorian motorists' outfit which includes hat, driving gloves, and goggles, carrying a mace for self defense, driving without regard to traffic laws in the manner of early 20th century motorists, and using an antique view camera to take photographs.

• Mr Burns seems unaware of 20th century political and social developments, such as Fidel Castro replacing Fulgencio Batista as the President of Cuba, Siam changing its name to Thailand, the Belgian Congo changing its name to the Congo-Kinshasa, Prussia being absorbed into the German Empire, India gaining its independence from the British Empire, New Mexico entering the United States, Idlewild Airport changing its name to JFK Airport, the disbanding of the Negro Leagues, the desegregation of the Major Leagues, Joe DiMaggio no longer being a rookie, the extinction of the dodo bird, the discrediting of phrenology, the demolition of the Polo Grounds, the ceasing of publication of Collier's Weekly, believing tires need to be revulcanized, thinking cars are still operated by levers, believing mail may still be delivered by autogyro, and the occurrence of the 1939 World's Fair.

• Mr Burns commonly refers to deceased persons as if they were alive, including Sir Donald Bradman, Stewie Dempster, Vic Richardson, Al Jolson, Tallulah Bankhead, Louise Brooks, Honus Wagner, Cap Anson, and Mordecai Brown.

• Mr Burns believes some social institutions and inventions are novel or nonexistent, such as musicals about "the common cat" and "the King of Siam", the Packard automobile, the Fire Department, ice cream, vending machines, recycling, strip clubs, the DuMont, the stereopticon, the Crimean War, the word"into", silent films like the 1929 Lulu, and the synonymity of ketchup and catsup.

what does everybody think? takethemud 17:17, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The more I look at the "State of Mind" section, the more it seems to be a sub of the Age section. He's a man stuck in a time-frame that no longer exists. CovenantD 22:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

• Does Monty really mention Don Bradman? Vic Richardson? I find that extremely hard to believe. Tigerman2005 22:15, 13 February 2007

[edit] Wealth

what proof is there that he is worth 16.8 billion I far as I know he has 2.2 billion -2.1 billion his cansino -100 million the plant -and the water works 74.138.90.121 20:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)Tonyman1989

Do you have any sources to cite for the figures you've given? Without sources, your figures are no better than anything else. Wibbble 03:11, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Forbes Magazine has This piece about his wealth. takethemud 00:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

is there any proof in the series i mean were did forbes get ther numbers firbes has said anywhere from 1 billion to 16.8 billion74.138.90.121 14:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989

I don't know where Forbes got their figure. But, it's the most recent figure they gave. Ask them how they compiled it if you're curious. takethemud 01:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Burns' age and the ATM-machine

As I uderstood, he first puts in 3 digits, which is the code, thus saying he is around 100 years of age, and the 4th button he pushes is the "OK" button and is located underneath the other btton. Drogo 20:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major Edits

I made some major edits to this page. I'd like to see this get up to Good Article status. -- takethemud 06:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Burns' Age

Folks keep going into the Burns box and changing his age from "Undetermined" to "104." This is incorrect. While it's been said he's 104, it's also been said he's 81, and it's been implied he lived at the time of the dinosaurs. Hopefully these edits will cease. If they don't, what can be done to secure the age at "Undetermined" other than watching constantly for changes. --takethemud 06:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

About the 81 age thing: Has anyone ever considered that Burns might be lying about his age? Perhaps he did not want anyone to know how old he really was back then. Considering that certain episodes show him concerned about his age this could be somewhat probable.

"Could be somewhat probable" is not accurate enough for a Wikipedia article. It needs to be verifiable. takethemud 02:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)