Talk:Naruto geography

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Naruto geography is within the scope of WikiProject Anime and manga, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of anime and manga. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page (Talk). See our portal to learn more.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.

This article was nominated for deletion on 14/7/2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents 1 Filler and Movies 2 country symbols 3 Hidan's Village 4 Hidden Star Village 5 "___" Country as opposed to Land of "___" 6 Map Image 7 Land of Wind 8 proposed move 9 Seperate Filler Catagory 10 Map 11 Hidden Mist 12 Getsugakure

[edit] Filler and Movies

Hm, this mix of the Manga geography and the "devised" geography from fillers/movies makes this list complex for the people who looking for the original plot. Wouldn't a own category for the countrys/villages who has nothing to do with the storyline of the Manga give a better overview? Like (I'm sorry about my English):

• 1 Countries
• 2 Other Non-Shinobi Countries
• 3 Shinobi no Sato (Shinobi Villages)
• 4 Fillers/Movies related places only
  • 4.1 Countries
  • 4.2 Villages
• 5 Sources

I certainly second this sentiment. At the least, there should be a tag on the anime only content... Doceirias 23:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] country symbols

I thought that only the ninja villages had symbols, or is it also their containing countries? --Pentasyllabic 02:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

It's only the villages ^^ --JadziaLover 10:00, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hidan's Village

can we add hidan's ninja village symbol since its obvious hes not from any of the know ninja villages it would seem appropriate to add something about his village and just label it unknown for the time being

That would be speculation, and that's a no-no. Besides, it does not look like we will be learning much more about Hidan given the recent turn of events in the manga. Treima 01:01, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hidden Star Village

The Bear Country and its Hidden Star Village debuted in anime filler episode 178.
Leader: Hoshikage
Hidden Star Village (Hoshigakure no Sato)

Maybe a small mention for this one too?
--Yllianos

I don't think their leader is actually called Hoshikage. Only the Great 5 Countries have Kage as leaders.

～卍 JadziaLover ^{会話~投稿} 卐～ 10:16, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe it is called Hoshikage(Star Shadow) because Naruto relates to a kid who wants to be Hoshikage of his village one day.

--Yllianos 22:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

The kid might want to become Hoshikage, but that doesn't mean their current leader is called that. It's much more logical that the boy wants to elevate his village to teh same level as that of the Great Five Shinobi Countries.

～卍 JadziaLover ^{会話~投稿} 卐～ 17:05, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "___" Country as opposed to Land of "___"

Judging from the English titles of the Naruto anime episodes, shouldn't the countries be referred to as "Fire Country", "Wave Country", etc.? Also, the the countries with articles would go under say, Fire Country (Naruto), so the title reflects the origin? --Geopgeop 08:23, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

• I dunno though those are the names sued in the English titles much of this article is based off the japanese version. If we were to do this we wouldn't have many English referances to work with for more than half of what is in this article and things wouldn't be very uniform. We should do it but again uniformity might be an issue with so few English referances. Ariolander 02:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map Image

I would apppreciate it if you guys wouldn't use our map as your base image. Even if you recolor and rename the thing, the underlying map was still composed for my site specifically by drawing upon multiple sources. Thanks.

Also I would appreciate it if you would avoid using our text WORD FOR FREAKING WORD in your entries here. Leafninja.com 14:44, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I am currently looking into the copyright violations on this page, and will make the appropriate changes. Thank you for informing us of this! --yueni 17:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Land of Wind

Isn't it about time that the Hidden Sand got its own article? I think there are enough known members of the village to warrant one, or at least more than there are for the Land of Waves (which also has its own article). It's something tho think about at least. Snapper2 03:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. ReaperWarrior

[edit] proposed move

Shouldn't this page be more appropriately named, something like "List of countries in Naruto"? Although that title doesn't account for the hidden villages, I think it should be "List of ___" in any case. --Pentasyllabic 17:20, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seperate Filler Catagory

We really need to make a seperate catagory for only filler countries. Renegade78 23:07, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

No. They're already denoted by episode. That would just make things needlessly complicated. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Indicating that it's filler by putting the word "filler" in brackets next to the country is not needless. It will help people decipher filler contries from non-filler countries. Renegade78 02:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

People can look at the episode number and easily tell. This is just your attempt to sneak your opinion into the article. There is no word on canon or otherwise, so your continued assistence on adding it is original research. Furthermore, it makes linking to those sections annoying. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Discuss your edits here before adding them. I'm getting tired of revert warring and arguing in edit summaries. The burden of proof lies on you here. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Not everybody realizes that episodes 135+ are filler. This will help people easily decipher the difference between filler countries/events (which are not canon, since they have nothing to do with the original storyline), and non-filler countries/events. Renegade78 02:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Again you present your original research. You claim to have an interview with the author confirming this. Quit being evasive and prove it. As it stands, you have a history of making edits people just revert and this is no exception. You're obfusciating these pages by adding these stupid (filler) tags everywhere. Filler doesn't mean anything to people. (anime only) would, but that's just as irritating. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The proof is the difference between the anime compared to the manga. If the event is not present in the manga, it is not part of the original storyline, therefore it is non-canon. Renegade78 02:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Link your proof and quit being evasive. I am going to repeat this until you you do so. You claimed you had linkable proof in this edit. Until you link this so-called interview, you are adding original research to the article. Quit spouting the same line over and over and prove that these things are anything more than simple filler episodes. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I saw it one time and don't feel like searching for it through the internet just to prove an incredibly obvious point. The point is Masashi Kishimoto has nothing to do with the anime, he's the creator of the manga and only works on the manga. The anime is just based off his series. If something occurs in the anime that never happened in the manga, it's irrelevant to the plot and can sometimes cause plot holes. All i'm saying is, what's the big deal in informing people if an event or character has only appeared in the anime, and is not part of the original storyline? People have the right to be informed of this. If not, they'll be asking themselves questions of why some things just don't make sense that occured in the anime, and completely go off-track or cause plot holes in the storyline. Renegade78 04:10, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Fine, if you won't prove your point, I'll prove mine. Shikamaru becomes an academy teacher in the anime. Lo and behold, he is still a teacher in the timeskip. Looks like Kishimoto does take ideas from the anime. Your point is no longer valid. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:17, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Never said he doesn't take ideas from the anime once in a while, but for all we know, he was going to make Shika an acadamy teacher anyways. If Raiga or any of those filler countries are ever introduced in the actual manga, i'd be glad to leave them as canon material. Until then, it's only anime filler. Renegade78 04:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

"The point is Masashi Kishimoto has nothing to do with the anime, he's the creator of the manga and only works on the manga." Short memory, maybe? Clearly, you're just changing your position after being proven wrong. That you suddenly "can't find" any proof is further evidence that you're just trying to manipulate facts to benefit your own position. Kishimoto can say what he wants and what he doesn't want added to the series. It is his series. Also, your opinion (and this is the main problem you have) on what is canon doesn't matter. The fact is there is no official word on what is canon. Do you understand the difference? – Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

He doesn't have anything to do with the anime, that doesn't mean he can't take ideas from it, and as i've said, there is no proof he took the idea of Shika becoming an academy teacher from the anime. For all we know, he was going to make Shika an academy teacher anyway. Something being canon or non-canon has nothing to do with opinion. If something appears in the anime that is absent in the original work, it's non-canon. If it's present in the manga, it's canon. Has nothing to do with opinion. Renegade78 04:54, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

That's speculation and opinion. Being in a separate work does not make something non-canon. A statement to that effect by those authorized to make such decisions does. For example, all Star Trek novels aren't canon as declared by Paramount. Star Wars novels are, with discretion given to George Lucas to change events if he so wishes. Get a quote to that effect for this series and you have an argument. Until then, you're just using your opinion. No filler is directly contradictory. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:58, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I just don't see the harm in simply stating which land was present only in the anime. It'll help people who only read the manga to understand why there are so many countries they've never even heard about, and will allow them to decipher ones from filler, and ones from the manga. A quick and simple indication of it being only in the anime isn't going to harm the article. Renegade78 21:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

When you're doing it just to enforce your own beliefs it is harmful, and that's exactly what you're doing. You're just being obsessive over "only" to have your way. You're not going to get it. Raiga is killed in his filler arc so he's not very well going to show up elsewhere, is he? Quit being ignorant about such things and leave it be. Also, answer Snapper's question. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:30, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with personal belief. He only appeared in the anime, therefore the word "only" should be used. And I understand that he's dead, which should give even more reason for using the word only, since he's never going to appear anywhere else. Renegade78 23:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Not true. He could easily be mentioned with the rest of the Swordsmen in some instance. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

That's fine, and as i've already stated, if that ever happens, feel free to include Raiga as a manga character, but until then, he's only anime filler. Renegade78 23:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

He's a character in the series. We treat him as we would any other. This is not like some other series where the anime takes drastic and contradictory leaps with the content that necessitate such distinctions. They are very careful to limit such problems. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't watch the anime, so please mighty Renegade, learn me what is so drastically different from the manga that the anime's continuity is going to implode in upon itself. Because my secondhand knowledge of it sure as hell isn't turning up any gaping discrepancies. ~SnapperTo 05:06, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Never said drastic. I don't believe the changes in the anime's contiunity are drastic, but i'm not making drastic edits either. It's a small edit that quickly and decisively helps people understand that Raiga and a good sum of those countries are only anime filler, and have never appeared in the original manga. Renegade78 23:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with pointing out that some country or character appears only in the anime. What I want to know, though, is why it is so important that it be spelled out so clearly? Example: one version of the article said Raiga was introduced in the Raiga filler arc. You weren't happy with this and fought tooth and nail so that it would be added that he hasn't appeared in the manga. Why? How is not pointing out that he's never been in the manga going to confuse people? Why is the word "filler" not enough of a distinction? Why is it so important that you needed to make 25 edits, breaking 3rr multiple times over, just to clarify slightly what was already in the article? ~SnapperTo 03:27, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

'Introduced' in the Raiga Filler arc implies that he's a manga character aswell, which he isn't, and it's not as decisive. I changed it by putting (anime only) next to his name. But for some reason, Someguy had a huge problem with that. And Someguy was breaking the 3rr just as much as I was, so don't give me that. - Renegade78 21:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map

Since User:Countmall seems to disagree with the current map, I'm trying to find all maps that have been shown throughout the series, preferably those that have some country labeled. So far I've been able to find three [1] [2] [3] maps in the manga, though as you may or may not notice, the first image is missing a few countries. I'm sure there's at least one more map shown in the course of the manga, though I can't think of where it would be. Additionally, maps shown in the anime would be helpful, though a screenshot would need to be provided since I can't easily find those. Help anyone? ~SnapperTo 23:37, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

His complaint lends to the fact that "Land of Sound" is incorrectly marked, when we infact identify it as "Land of Rice Fields," which is accurate. Second, maps.[4] – Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I think what he meant is that the country labeled as the Land of Sound on the map in the article is not in actuality the Land of Sound, and the image you provided backs up this idea. The first map I linked to is missing a number of countries in the Land of Sound area seen in all other maps, and the borders that are shown in this area don't match the borders in other maps as well. Is the Land of Sound labeled on any map elsewhere in the series? If it isn't, then we seem to have conflicting facts about where it is actually located. ~SnapperTo 00:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I'm trying to move it in photoshop just to stop the complaining, but I don't know to do those cool tricks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Someguy0830 (talk • contribs) 00:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

Can't help you there; I've got some cheapo art program that's only good for image conversion. Just using solid colors would probably be easier, as the gradients and lines are fairly distracting. Also, the village symbols shown in the article seem to be of higher quality than those in the map. So, maybe it'd be simpler to just make a new map. ~SnapperTo 00:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I've altered it. If I could make a bigger map, I would, but I'm not entirely sure how. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I made a bigger version. The solid colors should allow the map to be easily edited so long as it remains as a gif. I'm not overly happy with how some of the village symbols look, but I don't feel like putting more effort into improving them. ~SnapperTo 02:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

And to save people time, I've got a blank version left over, so if someone wants to make a better version they can have five minutes of their life back. Nevermind, photobucket makes it too small and not as awesome. Just edit the current version. ~SnapperTo 03:08, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hidden Mist

Isn't there anything else about the hidden mist village? It comes up a lot over the series, as there are both major and minor villains from the village.

What's there seems to be the sum of our knowledge of it. There are two fairly major canon villains from there (Zabuza and Kisame) but we haven't actually seen much of it at all. Retlor 01:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Getsugakure

I thought that was wierd when one of the ninja in the Chunin Exams had a headband with a crescent on it. Do you think Masashi was planning to create Getsugakure when he drew that headband, or just did it on impulse? Also, that's really wierd that a Getsunin (Getsugakure ninja) was in the Exams, because, as shown on one of Kabuto's skill cards, there weren't any applicant's from there. It'd be great if someone could at least try to explain this. Manga_King —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.88.117.189 (talk) 21:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

I'd imagine the ninja in question only appeared in the anime rendition of the Chunin exams, given that the village itself seems to be of the anime's design. ~SnapperTo 21:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Surprisingly enough, no... it is in the manga as well. It's near the middle of Volume 5 of the manga. Unfortunately I haven't had time to get a page number for you yet, but I'm working on it. It's seen during the written part of the Exams that the crescant headband is seen, that's all I remeber from the last time I read that section of the manga. 138.88.117.189 00:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)Manga_King

Note: I accidentally called it Getsagakure previously, its actually Getsugakure.

The crescent headband appears only in the manga in chapter 43. It does not show up in the anime or anywhere else as yet and can be considered an accident as the author didn't follow up on it. I have not seen any information or sources that places Getsugakure in the Land of the Moon (or any ninja village in the country); merely that ninja of some kind appear in the movie. Nor have I seen any information that it's called Getsugakure. (It could be Tsukigakure.) Can someone who knows Japanese confirm the former name? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.102.136.120 (talk) 19:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

What page is this? Or, to make it simpler, what's going on in the panel where the crescent appears? I'm not seeing it. ~SnapperTo 22:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

@ the second-to-last comment: Unfortunately Tsuchigakure means Lightning Village, and the Tsuchikage rules the Land of Clouds, so it would be in the Land of Clouds, therefore its symbol would be that of the clouds (look at Kumogakure's symbol). Thanks for trying, though. 138.88.117.189 22:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)Manga_King

@Snapper-To: the crescant headband appears in volume 5, chapter/number 43, page 141, panel 5. look at the guy in the foreground of the panel. 138.88.117.189 22:26, 31 January 2007 (UTC)Manga_King

Do you see it now? 138.88.117.189 22:29, 31 January 2007 (UTC)Manga_King

Oh, I must have stopped one page too soon. It is indeed there. ~SnapperTo 22:32, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Yep. So...got any thoughts on why a Getsunin is in the Chunin Exams when Kabuto's skill card said not? 138.88.117.189 22:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)Manga_King

Kabuto's card likely only listed the most important or influential villages. I'm sure the peon villages get their shots, too. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Given that the village and its symbol never again appear in the manga (as far as I know at least), I'd guess it's an easter egg or something on Kishimoto's part. ~SnapperTo 22:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

@Snapper To: Actually they do appear again, but in volume 20-something I think. Its not out in English yet. @Someguy: But Kabuto included Otogakure, who were relatively small, and just starting out as a village. 138.88.117.189 22:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)Manga_King

Not that hard to believe, considering that Kabuto is the attendant to the guy that, you know, rules the place. Treima 00:55, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

FYI Naruto the Movie 2 centers around Getsugakure. 138.88.117.189 23:08, 31 January 2007 (UTC)Manga_King

@ Manga_King: That's "Tsuki" not "Tsuchi". There is no such thing as Tsuchikage. There is the Raikage and he does not in fact rule the Land of Clouds, rather Hidden Cloud, a ninja village which is hosted on the territory of the Land of Lightning. The political status of the villages and their host country is stated to be equal in principle. I believe actually, that the proper name of a theoretical Hidden Moon village ought to be Tsukigakure. "Getsu" is not a proper Japanese pronounciation. It can only be included as part of a larger phrase describing the exact sort of moon ie Full Moon which would be mangetsu, etc.

As for the statement that the second movie is about Hidden Moon, that is untrue. The second movie involved the underground kingdom, knights, and so on. The THIRD movie involves the Moon Country. While it may seem intuitive that Hidden Moon exists in the Moon Country, it should be noted that the other confused names, the Stone Country and Hidden Stone do not coexist. So it's an assumption until the movie comes out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.102.136.120 (talk) 00:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

I call bull dookie! The Sound Village and its country now have the same name, although that was not the case when it was created (if the fillers are to be believed). Also, there is a Tsuchikage, the kage of the Stone village. Treima 00:50, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, right, from Iwagakure. Duh. But he still isn't from Land of Lightning or Hidden Cloud. Now, I see someone's already reverted and called me stupid. Has anyone here actually watched the raw of the Naruto Movie 3 to confirm they've used the same headband as the one we're talking about? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.102.136.120 (talk) 01:30, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

Hey guys? If you don't do this already, start signing your comments by typing 4 ~'s (tildes) and then typing whatever name you choose. It's hard to keep track of who's who if you people don't sign your comments. And yes, as Treima and the anonymous person who didn't sign their comments pointed out, I am indeed mistaken. The Tsukikage is the ruler of Iwagakure. Sorry about that, guys. By the way, Treima, that comment about Otogakure was totally random. This section of the 'Talk page' is for talking about Getsugakure. Try to stay on topic, please? Thanks. Also, this is a talk page, not a bar. Try to keep the insults down. 138.88.117.189 20:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)Manga_King

Wait a sec... if the Tsukikage rules Iwagakure, the Village Hidden in the ROCKS, why do you propose that the name of the Village Hidden in the MOON be Tsukigakure? 138.88.117.189 21:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)Manga_King

(responding to above comment) It says in Book 2, chapter 9, that The rock village's Kage is in fact, called the Tsuchikage. And I just fell completely off for a minute... The village of the moon wouldn't have a Kage anyway, so name mix-ups wouldn't be any worry... 71.193.168.185 06:23, 6 February 2007 (UTC)Hazuza

Correct! Ding ding ding! You, sir, get 1,000 points! There wouldn't be a kage for the Land of the Moon! I've been so stupid. I totally forgot that there are only 5 kages. Stupid, stupid, stupid! But...going back on topic... why was there a ninja in the Chunin exams who was wearing a crescent moon headband? (Don't believe me? Turn to page 141 in volume 5 of the English manga. Look at the guy who's sweating in panel 5.) As Snapper-To said, it might have just been an easter egg put in by Kishimoto, but what if...it wasn't? 138.88.117.189 15:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)Manga_King