Talk:National Socialist Movement (United States)

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This article is part of WikiProject Fascism, an attempt to better organize and unify articles relating to the fascist ideology, its impact on history and present-day organizations closely linked to both of these (ideology and history). See project page, and discussion. This article may be listed on an index of fascist movements or people. Such listing may be controversial; feel free to contribute to discussions there. The presence of this Talk page-only template only implies that the subject is of interest to the associated WikiProject.

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Wow, wild ass assertions about people being Jews and claims of DNA evidence without proof? Most of what has been posted below concerning the doings of various NSM members have not been verified. You call this site an encyclopedia? Get real.

This article is a bunch of jew shit. No wonder so many assert that wikipedia is a jew project.

who keeps deleating updated sections from the nsm88 topic?

This is a lie. There has not been a mass exodus of members. In fact the SPLC says they are the fastest growing white nationalist group in America.

^ Oh my gawd, who ever could've guessed that neo-Nazis would be semi-literate morons with a third grade mastery of the English language? Murple 21:23, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

This article should be merged with National Socialist Movement (US). I don't know exactly which is the preferred name. Bogdan | Talk 12:38, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

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An anonymous user added this to the article: Bogdan | Talk 23:50, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

In what is referred to as the 2004 exodus approximately 30% of the NSM membership resigned after demanding the impeachment of Jeff Schoep. The current NSM exists with around 30 units in the USA and 3 overseas. What was once a functional organization has been reduced to a mere shell of it's previous status in the "Movement". Units are made up of anywhere from 1 member with a PO Box to around 5. The NSM membership seems to have a turn over rate of about 6 months. It's estimated that the NSM has approximately 50 members at any given time. No more than 20 have ever appeared at their public events. Often the NSM rallies nearby other successful organizations drawing off their membership to make a showing.

The NSM attends rallies and racially aligned events around the USA at which times it is able to attain photographs with supporters and other organization members. The heavily hyped "Viking Youth" program is made up of 4 to 8 youth spread across the nation so that no three ever attend meetings together. The photos of youth touted by Jeff Schoep as proff of his youth members are in reality those young peple who attended a rally of the Virginia based KKK. Not one of those in the photos are actual NSM Viking youth. There is also no real training ground for members or youth for that matter as stated on the NSM website. At best "Viking Youth" is a figment of Schoeps imagination and hopes for gaining uninformed teens.

The NSM Exodus began in 2004 after the annual congress. Unit Leaders from around the USA met in Kansas and organized to demand the impeachment of Schoep due to mismanagement of donations and funds raised. Schoep was also accused of drunkenness, and adultery with another members woman. Many accusations were made public and included allowing homosexual, bi-sexual, and non-white members into the organization. Specifically Michael Blevins aka Von Bluvens took over the NSMradio program as minister of radio propaganda. It was proven through DNA evidence that Mike Blevins was in fact a jewish semite. Other allegations included letters written by Schoep to a known informant named Frazier Glenn Miller. Miller testified against "Movement" leaders in the Ft. Smith sedition trials and went into the Federal Witness Protection Program.

Jeff Schoep was exposed as a fraud and convicted felon during the 2004 exodus when court documents of his conviction were made public. He had burglarized a home while his children sat in the backseat of his car. Schoep is the father of 7 children by several different women and lives off government assistance. He has been shown to be nothing more than a liar and fraud who has been living off the dues and donations of his members without any oversight. The current NSM is nothing more than a Jeff Schoep cult and any real activists have moved on to join other organizations or remain independent.

Contents 1 68.34.158.41 2 Headline text 3 NSM membership figures 4 132.241.245.132 5 25 points 6 Edit warring 7 Socialism, Facism, etc. 8 NPOV 9 Leftism 10 Protection removed 11 Recent Revert 12 removing north toledo protest section

[edit] 68.34.158.41

I don't know where the IP is. You're a member, I'm a member, etc. The NSM *had* a paramilitary training camp, and the fellow running it raped some 13 and 14 year old boys. Now, they no longer have the camp. His name was Michael Faust, and there is a citation to an article on him in the main article.

Run a background check on Schoep. He's a multiply convicted felon, actually. So is Angela Foxworth.

Here are the court files:

Record 1: Identification Name: JEFFREY STEPHEN SCHOEP [Perform Background Check] Aliases: SCHOEP, JEFFREY; SCHOEP, JEFF STEPHEN; SCHOEP, JEFFREY STEPHAN; SCHOEP, JEFFREY STEPHEN; Source: Minnesota Sex: MALE DOB: 11/12/1973 Race: WHITE Offense Court Name RAMSEY DIST COURT Case Number: 94016200 Offense ID MN_DPS186025001001 Offense Code 609.595.1.3 Offense DAMAGE TO PROP-1ST DEG-VALUE REDUCED OVER $500 Offense Type MISDEMEANOR Disposition Date 04/28/1995

Record 2: Identification Name: JEFFREY STEPHEN SCHOEP [Perform Background Check] Aliases: SCHOEP, JEFFREY; SCHOEP, JEFF STEPHEN; SCHOEP, JEFFREY STEPHAN; SCHOEP, JEFFREY STEPHEN; Source: Minnesota Sex: MALE DOB: 11/12/1973 Race: WHITE Offense Court Name SHERBURNE DIST COURT Case Number: 98006844 Offense ID MN_DPS186025002001 Offense Code 609.582 Offense BURGLARY Offense Type FELONY Disposition Date 11/19/1998

Record 3: Identification Name: JEFFREY STEPHEN SCHOEP [Perform Background Check] Aliases: SCHOEP, JEFFREY; SCHOEP, JEFF STEPHEN; SCHOEP, JEFFREY STEPHAN; SCHOEP, JEFFREY STEPHEN; Source: Minnesota Sex: MALE DOB: 11/12/1973 Race: WHITE Offense Court Name RAMSEY DIST COURT Case Number: 94016200 Offense ID MN_DPS186025001001 Offense Code 609.595.1.3 Offense DAMAGE TO PROP-1ST DEG-VALUE REDUCED OVER $500 Offense Type MISDEMEANOR Disposition Date 04/28/1995

Record 4: Identification Name: JEFFREY STEPHEN SCHOEP [Perform Background Check] Aliases: SCHOEP, JEFFREY; SCHOEP, JEFF STEPHEN; SCHOEP, JEFFREY STEPHAN; SCHOEP, JEFFREY STEPHEN; Source: Minnesota Sex: MALE DOB: 11/12/1973 Race: WHITE Offense Court Name SHERBURNE DIST COURT Case Number: 98006844 Offense ID MN_DPS186025002001 Offense Code 609.582 Offense BURGLARY Offense Type FELONY Disposition Date 11/19/1998

The proof of the amount of members comes from a statement by Cliff Herrington as to the number of copies of the member newspaper being published at its peak. If you need some sources as to the current number of members, I'll post some.

---

• The NSM does not have paramilitary training camps. This is simply untrue. I know since I am a member.

• Where is the proof of alleged criminal activity of Jeff Schoep?

• Where is the proof of the amount of members?

This article is extremely biased.

Some of the items are disputed. I think this should be brought forward for consideration instead of just disregarding it.

(above edits by 68.34.158.41 -- Rama 21:17, 22 September 2005 (UTC) )

68.34.158.41, you cannot dismiss these statements by asking questions.

• One of the first sentences by [1] is that NSM members are "racist skinheads and other young white supremacists, who join in NSM activities ranging from literature distribution to armed paramilitary training."

• Details about Jeff Schoep are available just above and in [2], you are free to ask this court for duplicates of the documents

• The number of members is given in [3]: "In 2004, it has between 100 and 200 members and hangers-on in 38 chapters."

If you want to make a statement about the nature of the activities of NSM88, you are free to contribute photographs of events or meetings under the CC-by-sa-2.5 licence. Rama 21:17, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Regarding another point raised in a comment on the article page (comments belong here, not there) about the name of the group. On the home page of NSM, http://www.nsm88.com/index2.html, it says "The National Socialist Movement (aka NSM88) is the largest Nazi Party operating in the United States of America today." -Willmcw 22:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Headline text

[edit] NSM membership figures

I just added about 18 links to articles and reference on membership numbers, informers in the group, recent activities, paramiliary camps, etc.

Enjoy.

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There is a statement out there from Clfif Herrington, who produced the NSM newspaper for members, that he was producing 400 copies a month. Thus, the NSM did not have more than 400 paying members at its peak.

The NSM did have paramilitary training camps. A fellow in Wisconsin went to jail for running them. There are old news articles out there on that for those who wish to look.

--

Let's leave off the membership numbers figures, which are given as facts in this article, until we have more information. Where does ADL say they (NSM) have no more than 6 members in any one unit? Also, if we quote figures given by the ADL we should say "according to the ADL, the NSM has X numbers of members" rather than simply stating it as fact.

I also do not believe that the NSM has Paramilitary Training Camps. The reason I do not believe so is that I feel that if they really did have such the media would have reported it. Like it or not, but the media loves articles about Nazis and Neo-Nazis because it's sure be noticed. 196.207.37.253 22:18, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

The NSM site itself advocates "up of five-man cells" ("This is a very basic outline of legitimate targets for an underground organization. Ideally, such a formation should be made up of five-man cells", [4]). Did you read your own site ? Rama 22:24, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh, also, do you contest the amount of the membership fee ? If yes, please use your inside knowledge to correct the amount rather than deleting the information. Rama 22:30, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

68.34.158.41 16:14, 23 September 2005 (UTC)The allegations of Jeff Schoeps criminal record is provided by the ADL. I think it should should read "according to the ADL".

No, it should not, unless we have reasons to believe that what ADL says is wrong. Rama 16:16, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

68.34.158.41 16:22, 23 September 2005 (UTC)Has the ADL provided proof of their allegations? Just because they say it doen't make it so. They are not an unimpeachable source.

Do you have any reason to contest what they are saying ? Rama 16:42, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

68.34.158.41 16:22, 23 September 2005 (UTC) "Children are endoctrined and taken into paramilitary activities." This is stated as if it is a fact. It hasn't been proven as fact.

Then be all means do make a photographic coverage of the average activities of this "Nazi Party", upload them on Wikipedia under a Free licence (I recommend Cc-by-sa-2.5) and we will have original material to discuss. For now, all sources I have seen point to paramilitary activities and the young age of members. Rama 16:42, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

68.34.158.41 16:29, 23 September 2005 (UTC) The NSM entries should be short and to the point without trivial mud slinging or grandstanding. Can I make it any more clear than that?

Yes, I suppose so. What you are saying is either wrong ("The NSM entries should be short"; how so ? If we have things to say about them, we will), either very vague and general ("without trivial mud slinging or grandstanding"; yes, quite obviously). Rama 16:42, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Rama, ask yourself this: If the NSM really is recruiting children into paramilitary action then why has the press ignored it? Do you think the press would ignore such a sensational story? Why is it that whenever the NSM passes out leaflets and DOES make the news the press suppresses the fact that they recruit children into paramilitary camps? Do you think that the press believes a few leaflets left on windshields is more newsworthy than neo-nazi paramilitary camps?

As of the numbers, if you wish to quote the ADL figures simply say "according to the ADL ...". That is not to say that their figures are not correct, but for an encyclopedia to list it as fact gives the impression that the ADL numbers can not be refuted. 196.207.45.254 18:08, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 132.241.245.132

You're not the only one who hates Nazis. Given what they've done, this is a perfectly understandable reaction; I do myself. But using their stigma as a weapon and Wikipedia as a platform to smear those whose legitimate political viewpoints you don't like is unacceptable. Rogue 9 05:31, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

• Censorship on NSM

I tried to add the National Socialist Movement USA newsportal: http://www.overthrow.com and it was deleted, could someone please explain why a direct link to their main newsportal was deleted? Why do we have to deal with censorship from wikipedia like this all the time? http://www.overthrow.com is a legitimate link for the NSM USA article. Can someone please explain?

Well, the fact that they describe themselves as "libertarian socialists" is laughable, but other than that I agree; it seems perfectly legitimate. I'll put it back.

Incidentally, for a second I'd thought you were talking about censorship by the NSM, which would be hilarious, since I happen to have this screenshot of their forums, in which one of their forum admins invites open discussion of views, and not ten minutes later bans someone for questioning him. *Chuckle* Rogue 9 17:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Hmmmm. Never mind; someone's already put it back. 132.241.245.132, if you don't mind, I'd like to know just why you're removing links so inherently damaging to the NSM since you claim to hate them so much. Or was the "I hate these guys" edit lable intended to refer to the conservatives you were comparing to Nazis in the edit? Rogue 9 17:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 25 points

(moved from Talk talk:National Socialist Movement (United States) -Willmcw 21:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC))

Studying hate groups happens to be a hobby of mine, and I know a little something about them. Twice now I have tried to update the page of the NSM88 to list their 25 points. While these points do in fact share some points with the original points of facism they have been targetted at the United States specifically. The information I listed I obtained personally by representatives affiliated with that organization. Twice now within an hour my updates have been removed. Why have my updates been removed? If it is a question of legitimacy that is one thing. If it is blind fear, hate, or dislike of the hate group this action is both hypocritical and irresponsible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Klauth (talk • contribs) 21:40, October 18, 2005 .

I removed it because it is a long block of source material. If it is not copyrighted then it should go on Wikisource. If it is copyrighted then we should just provide a link. Either way we can summarize the info, highlighting their principal points. Thanks, -Willmcw 21:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Fine let's include a link and some reference, by looking at it it becomes obvious that they are socialist...

-Jbamb 17:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Jbamb, I would appreciate if you could stop pushing this "Nazism-is-leftist" idea is spice of all commons sense. Nazism is almost universally considered far-right wing, and I see absolutely nothing that suggests that this National Socialist Movement is considered left-wing, be it by itself, or by others. If you have personal political theories, you are welcome to start a blog. Thank you. Rama 18:11, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Rama, you're wrong. Read the 25 points... particularly 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 23, and 25 which could be mistaken for planks of the DNC platform. You're consideration of Neo-Nazis as right-wing goes against all evidence. Who on the right would suggest to nationalize all industry? -Jbamb 18:17, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Here's the link [5]

Well, the Nazis would. Furthermore, Jbamb, I would like to call your attention on the WP:3RR rule, and also caution you not to call other contributors "vandals" merely because they do not share your point of view. Failure to comply with this will result in sanctions. Thank you for your understanding. Rama 18:19, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Sanction me for what? Contributing and you erasing without discussion? Discuss the point here, fine, but you are unilaterally erasing because you have your own point of view and want to push it with wikipedia. This is propagandapedia. -Jbamb 18:21, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Sanctions for violating the 3RR rule, for calling me a vandal and now for "propagandapedia". Consider this a last warning. Rama 18:26, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edit warring

I've blocked for 24 hours User:Jbamb, for edit warring and violation of the rule against doing frequent reverts (3RR). In addition, I have protected the page, for it is obvious that this user was politically motivated and I fear he or she may ask for help from other people similarly disrespectuous of Wikipedia rules. David.Monniaux 18:33, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

However, I must question the "revert-then-protect" sequence here, to ensure that a preferred version gets protected. That seems to be a direct contradiction to protection policy. Also, it looked like more than one 3RR violator. Were all blocked? Not that I'm sympathetic to the agenda of User:Jbamb (far from it)... CarbonCopy (talk) 18:37, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Protection policy allows for admins to revert to a version from before the 3RR conflict.

• In cases of 3RR violations, admins may protect the version immediately before the first violation i.e. immediately before the first occurrence of a fourth revert. See Wikipedia talk:Revert#The protection option for the discussion on this.

I don't see any other 3RR violations. -Willmcw 20:18, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

2 things. After being warned, I made no changes yet was blocked anyway. Second, is that Rama was also a 3RR violator here. This belongs in content disputes, not with sysops violating 3RR, and then calling another sysop to block despite compliance with a warning, and the proceding to protect the page despite a legitimate content dispute.

[edit] Socialism, Facism, etc.

Alright. First off, Mussolini defined facism as the merging of state and corporate interests. That's definately right-wing.

However, it's semi-incorrect to say that socialism and nazism are polar opposites. Anarchism and facism are opposites. Socialism and capitalism are opposites.

Also, all forms of totalitarianism are fairly similar, whether they be socialist, facist or capitalist in idealogy. After all, Hitler and Stalin would have agreed on most issues relating to individual freedom.

Anyway, its interesting to note that many neo-nazi groups plaugerize leftist theory, attempting to portray pro working-class sentiment. Since they believe that Jews controll all corporations, media, government, etc., they see Jews as the ruling class, and whites as the opressed underclass. Thus, Marxist theory fits into their rhetoric almost perfectly.

If the NSM's 25-point program is being discussed, it's important to note that it does call for affordable healthcare, a liveable wage, a flat tax, etc. If you only look at the economic parts of the document, it does sound pretty leftist.

While NSM's version of nazism does differ from the original version regarding their views on the economy, it's highly ignorant to define them as left-wing. -Rusty86

PS: If one attempts to define facism as left-wing, s/he runs into several flaws. Namely, anarchism and facism are polar opposites. If facism is placed at one end of the spectrum, then anarchism is at the other. Thus, if one defines facism as left-wing, s/he seem to be defining anarchism, its opposite, as right-wing. -Rusty

Especially since marxist theories are fundamentally internationalist, while all forms of fascism are stridently ultra-nationalist. Furthermore, the historical evolution to nazism originates mostly in far-right movements (the Stahlhlem factions and such); while a popular component of nazism did exist (incarnated in the SA), they were wiped out when they started annoying conservative elements of the society like the Army and the big industry. Rama 22:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I changed the wording to a more nuetral statement. In today's Lansing State Journal article about NSM, Bill White outright advocated a form of socialism and used the phrase judeo-capitalism (i assume a play off of Judeo-Christian). Jcmiller

[edit] NPOV

Many people are in here agreeing with part or all of what I am saying. To say that the National Socialist Movement is not socialist is absurd. Economically they meet up. Deigning to assume what their intentions are is, likewise, absurd. What's the difference between NSM and socialism? Their nationalistic bent? Then China would be right-wing. Their authoritarian desires? Then the USSR would be right-wing. I see the labeling of neo-nazis as right-wing more an attempt by left-wing folks to pawn off their whackos on the right. It would be at least intellectually honest to get rid of the left/right monniker, calling it rightist is factually wrong lest there be no real definition of those terms. -Jbamb 21:05, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:no original research and Wikipedia:NPOV. Your arguments are not in accord with Wikipeida policies and guidelines. -Willmcw 22:22, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I've read NPOV, I've read no original research, and just because you can find some dude somewhere that says what you say doesn't make it right. Look at their economic policies, THEY ARE SOCIALIST. There can be NO intelligent debate about it, period. To say otherwise indicates that the difference between socialists and conservatives is that conservatives kill people. That's all fine and good, but is that an NPOV? I think not. Not to mention it's also false. -- Jbamb 20:32, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

So you're saying that Adolf Hitler and the other National Socialists were leftists? That is not the conventional view, and encyclopedias are all about conventional wisdom. -Willmcw 23:41, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm saying they are socialists, which certainly doesn't make them right. The have "socialist" in all their party names, Marx in all their party literature. The only thing they seem to do different is have a racial component. -- Jbamb 20:15, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

"Right" and "left" don't have fixed meanings. Nazism, though also called "national socialism", is unuversally acknowledged as a political movement of the fascist right. -Willmcw 07:35, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

The "National Socialist Movement" refers to the NSDAP, whose only (or one of the rare) unchanging points was radical hostility to social-democracy, internationalism and communism. Focusing on the word "socialist" to suggest that the movement is left-wing is pure sophism. Rama 14:20, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

• Their 25 points makes it clear what side of the economic spectrum they land on. Or is reading sophism too. -- Jbamb 14:49, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Suggesting that the Right has only liberalism as economic politics certainly is sophism too. Compare noe-conservatism with ultra-liberalism. Rama 16:46, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Leftism

Leftism is founded in a belief in equality. Radical leftism (ie socialism, communism, anarchism) calls for the destruction of social hierarchy and the class system.

However, nazism calls for the creation of a rigidly enforced class system, based upon race, religion, sexuality, etc.

While it's fair to say facism and authoritarian communism are two sides of the same coin, it's utterly innacurate to label them as the same thing. -Rusty86

Fine then let's not call it a left or a right issue and let's just call it what it is... -- Jbamb 03:29, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

In America, the right-wing has traditionally opposed integration, civil rights, affirmative action, etc. For this reason, neo-nazis are commonly considered right-wing, even if they aren't strongly pro-capitalist.

Also, American patriotism is viewed as right-wing. While neo-nazis may not be acting in the America's best interest, they certainly view themselves as ultra-patriots.-Rusty86

Then call them nationalist, they certainly aren't right-wing. The south was democratic (left-wing) until the 70s. It was the GOP that brought about desegregation, the civil rights act, and the voting rights act. Comparing fascism and anarchism is absurd, unless you are prepared to say communism (not exactly anarchy) is right-wing also. -- Jbamb 04:43, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

There are those who would say that, at the time the Republicans were on the side of the angels, the Democrats were the right-wingers. But frankly, right- and left-wing are poor characterisations for a worldwide encyclopaedia, for two reasons. Firstly, what is "right" or "left" differs from country to country. And secondly, America has no mainstream left-wing is it's understood outside the nation. Should we say "The Republicans are right-wing and the Democrats are less right-wing"? It's ridiculous. We're better off leaving out anything like that. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 05:20, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

And I agree with this position. Calling them nationalist is specific enough. -- Jbamb 05:27, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

The article didn't define the NSM as right-wing in the first place. Is there a problem with the article as it is presently worded? Rusty

The so-called "edit war" was over that issue, and the protected version seems to have grabbed a neutral version. - Jbamb 15:32, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Protection removed

Semi-protection has been removed from this article, as it is not meant to be used for edit wars. Fuzheado | Talk 00:12, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Revert

I reverted the edits by 72.148.105.57 because they were not only unsourced, but also pretty heavily-pov, like a challenge to the NSM from another Nazi Party. Not that I'm particularly bothered by infighting between Nazis, that's just not what Wikipedia is for. Fightindaman 05:00, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

The infighting between Jeff Schoep's faction and Bill White's faction is exclusively online. Expect it here weekly. Sadena 22:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] removing north toledo protest section

I'm removing the following section:

On October 15, 2005 the group planned to march in North Toledo, Ohio, a predominantly African-American neighborhood. The NSM (who numbered between fifteen and twenty), cancelled their march after over 600 people gathered to counter-protest. After the group left, the counter-demonstrators became violent, fought with police, threw baseball-sized rocks at police cars, and set fire to a building which was known as a police bar. Looters took advantage of the chaos to commit robberies in a few nearby shops. [6]

In several details, it is inconsistent with or unsupported by the reference given. I'm not convinced it's worth fixing, but if someone else wants to bring it in line with the source given and re-add it, that's fine with me. --Allen 05:23, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It's too important to remove outright. Let's trim it down to bare facts. -Will Beback 18:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, the section might be broadened to something like "Demonstrations", with some other notable incidents included. -Will Beback 18:29, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

You're probably right, Will, except that the neighborhood being predominantly African-American was one of the details unsupported by the CNN link. I clicked on the "North Toledo" link, which is actually a link to "Toledo, Ohio", and I learned two things: first, that article describes North Toledo as "racially diverse", and also that it has a few paragraphs on the riots itself. I'll remove the African-American thing, add a brief sentence about arrests, and add a link to the section in the Toledo article, so that Wikipedians' efforts in covering these events can be focused in one place. --Allen 20:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)