Talk:Pierre-Auguste Renoir

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Contents 1 Comments 2 Arrested as a spy? 3 Name of painting 4 Critical interpretation 5 Sourcing

[edit] Comments

This page was another example of a half-hearted effort. I spent a long time fixing it up plus numerous others that were similarly not worth crap. I note someone changed my caption format, which I did accordinging to the most efficent and professional manner. It is time the Gods of Wikipedia adopt a proper Encyclopedia format instead of a massive paragraph full of stuff (and no, it DOES NOT HELP with a google search -- people come to QUALITY without without the need for gimmicks):

Name - dates (years only), occupation

PERIOD, NO MORE, NO LESS.

In the body put full dates and close anything done on a person or any living creature with a death date and, because no other encyclopedia does it and a lot of people want to know, (that's called marketing), make an effort to put in their burial place....DW

make a suggestion on the manual of style page. -- Tarquin 20:22 Jan 14, 2003 (UTC)

Preferably on Wikipedia_talk:Manual of Style, let's discuss before changing. Birth and death dates are much debated. Ortolan88

[edit] Arrested as a spy?

The article formerly read, "During the Paris Commune in 1871, Pierre-Auguste Renoir was arrested as a government spy. His life was saved when he was recognized by one of the Commune leaders, whom Renoir had himself protected on another occasion."

I find only one reference on the web (in English) to anything like this.

http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/000637.html - discusses an incident when Renoir assisted agitator, Raoul Rigault, but doesn't discuss any subsequent event involving Rigault.

A google search for +Renoir +Rigault turns up some sites, mostly in French that I can't read.

One of them, http://www.coppoweb.com/merson/chroniques/fr.commune.php , translated by google reads, "Renoir , was painting on the edges of the Seine when communards took it for a spy of Of Versailles and undertook to throw it to water. It had its safety only to his friend Raoul Rigault, a young refugee whom it formerly had accomodated and hidden in the forest of Fontainebleau." Which sounds more like a vigilante type action than an arrest.

So, I've tweaked that sentence to read, "During the Paris Commune in 1871, while painting by the Seine River, a Commune group thought he was spying and they were about to throw him in the river when a Commune leader, Raoul Rigault, recognized Renoir as the man who protected him on an earlier occasion."

Please change it if you have a reference that tells the story differently. And, please, add the reference.But I am still wrong no matter how hard I try!!!

--sparkit 02:33, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

Bold textYES

It is a true story. You can read about it in the book "Renoir, My Father" by Jean Renoir. --Killaferra 16:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

• My memory is that the incident is, indeed, included in Jean Renoir's book (which I read over 20 years ago!). I suspect some of the other stories (the affair with the teen-aged girl?) might also be from the same source. Cites are needed, and I will help if I can dig up a copy of this or other books which refer to these incidents. JNW 22:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name of painting

I believe the name of the painting which is titled On the Terrace, is actually called Two Sisters —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.13.90.80 (talk) 05:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Critical interpretation

I've moved the reference to Renoir's painting as 'chocolate box' art to the footnotes. For one, it seemed slightly out of context, almost a non-sequitur. Also, I've deleted the 'derision' by Degas and Picasso because it is equally out of context, and a misleading characterization of their esteem for Renoir: the literature is clear that Degas was a friend and supporter of Renoir (When criticizing landscape painters, Degas was reminded that his friend Renoir worked plein-air, and he replied 'Renoir is different; he can do anything he likes'), and that Picasso admired and was influenced by his monumental figures, even drawing a well-known portrait of the older artist that in mood is anything but dismissive. In other words, the article which is cited is inconclusive at best.

Perhaps eventually an 'assessment' heading will be added, one that may include the popular but largely superficial interpretation of Renoir as merely 'pretty' (just as Degas is ignorantly viewed as the painter of ballerinas), as well as the profusely documented understanding that he was a whole lot more than a purveyor of candy, and transcended his beginnings as a decorative painter...though what we may take as a patronizing description would probably not have troubled him in the least. JNW 13:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

• It's been added. JNW 17:32, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I am entirely happy for the note to be linked from the Assessment section which is a great idea. The Guardian is a notable source on artistic matters. I have reworded the contribution but if you are still not happy then the solution is to add counter sourced views, to reach an NPOV position. HTH. TerriersFan 18:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sourcing

WP:CITE refers. This is a really nicely written article that in many ways is a credit to Wikipedia. The problem, though, is that there is not a single reference for the 'Biography' and 'Artworks' sections that form the bulk of the article. These sections contain many opinions and each need to be closely sourced. I am not suggesting immediate, drastic action rather that, progressively, we need to work through the sections sourcing or editing as appropriate. TerriersFan 18:59, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed re: the sourcing--I have provided cites for most of my contributions, (some involve biographical facts so well documented that they don't need cites) but many more are in order. JNW 21:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)