Talk:Politics in The Simpsons

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This article was nominated for deletion on 31 Jan 07. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Contents 1 shifting alliances 2 The George H. W. Bush quote 3 Homer and Abe communists? 4 Paragraph 1

[edit] shifting alliances

It should be noted that the show was rather hard on Bill Clinton, in one episode, it went so far as having Clinton assure Lisa "You've learned a good lesson, if you complain long enough, you'll get your way...", when Marge protests "that's a pretty lousy lesson", Clinton responds "I'm a pretty lousy President", note fellow Dem Jimmy Carter is often ridiculed, in Marge Goes to Jail, the town substitutes an Abe Lincoln Statue for one of Jimmy Carter, resulting in a riot, in another episode, Carter is portrayed as a rapper "I've got a brother named Billy and my teeth look silly",,,GOP Presidents Ford and Bush the elder were treated much better, in the past season however, in an apparent criticism of the Iraq war Homer refers to George W. Bush as "commander cuckoo bannanas"....

Indeed, the show has definitely shifted, and hard. Homer, in particular, seems to be the voice of the opinions of whomever is writing for him at the time. Still, this could be part of his character, as he is 'the highly suggestible type' ^_^

In the past I think they tried to be even. Most TV comedies just refuse to say anything negative about the Democratic Party, they were one of the few to buck that trend. Still I think the general message was Republicans are actively evil whereas Democrats are basically good people who are just foolish or unlucky.--T. Anthony 14:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Why does everyone have to be either republicans or democrats? Lisa for exampel is definetley not republican, but she has said things that are more leftist than the democratic party's capitalist liberal centre-left policies. Like in the episode where she critized people who have butlers.--DaGrob 18:34, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the sections should be changed to "right-leaning" and "left-leaning"? --Rubber cat 08:31, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't list everybody (for example, it doesn't list Bart). It only list those characters who at one time or another have supported a specific party.--Per Abrahamsen 20:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The George H. W. Bush quote

I don't know the context, but it is necessarily a slam against the show? I suspect that the creators of The Simpsons doesn't think it represents how an American family should ideally be.--Per Abrahamsen 01:30, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Homer and Abe communists?

Why is Abe and Homer stated as communists? They are more likely mild Republican or non-beligerent. Abe has on several occasions criticized Democrats, and Homer seemed to have a good friendship with Republican former President Gerald Ford. Reason Abe could have the Communist Party card could be because he is senile, and it is typical for Homer if he took the card so he could exploit them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.160.111.57 (talk) 13:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

Communist here refers to superficial party association, rather than inner conviction. Which makes the case clear for Abe (being a party member), less so for Homer (stealing a membership card doesn't make you a member).--Per Abrahamsen 14:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Paragraph 1

Politics is a common theme in the animated television series The Simpsons, and this phenomenon has had some crossover with real American politics. U.S. conservatives have voiced opposition to the show,^{[citation needed]} perhaps because The Simpsons has mocked traditional authority figures such as teachers and parents. ^{[citation needed]} U.S. President George H. W. Bush has even said that the U.S. needs to be closer to The Waltons than to The Simpsons ^{[citation needed]}(although his son, George W. Bush is an admitted fan of the show). ^{[citation needed]}If the show has a liberal slant, this was joked about in the episode "The Simpsons 138th Episode Spectacular," in which reference was made to "hundreds of radical right-wing messages inserted into every show by creator Matt Groening." ^{[citation needed]} More recently, however, U.S. conservatives have adopted a derisive Simpsons term for the French, "cheese-eating surrender monkeys."^[1].

• This should be deleted. The entire thing lacks citations and the only citation given says nothing specifically about only conservatives using these terms. Furthermore, sentences like "conservatives have voiced opposition to the show,^{[citation needed]} perhaps because The Simpsons has mocked traditional authority figures such as teachers and parents. " Are a blatant NPOV violation. The word "perhaps" alone is indicative of an opinion with a POV.Jellonuts 21:47, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • There was a reference; please don't delete references. Secondly, the number of fact tags was indiscriminate; "hundreds of radical right-wing messages inserted into every show by creator Matt Groening" is a direct quote from the episode. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 00:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I repeat, The reference that was there did not have the information it was cited as having. Also, **"Perhaps because..." is an opinion and violates NPOV. Also stop deleting citation requests, if you quote, paraphrase, or make assertations they require citations Jellonuts 22:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes it does. It says right wingers are using the phrase and got it from the Simpsons. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 02:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

• • • It does NOT say "It says right wingers are using the phrase" it says that one person, this columnist named Goldberg, said it. That is just an opinion, or a POV if you will, not a fact. The only fact it says is that this Mr. Goldberg said it, not that " U.S. conservatives have adopted a derisive Simpsons term for the French, "cheese-eating surrender monkeys"" That implies that most conservsatives have done this, and I contest the factualness of that statement without sources. The column that is cited says "according to Goldberg", not "according to U.S. conservatives." Cite a source that identifies the that conservatives in general use this term to describe the French. Right now, this whole paragraph is just stating a POV. How can you not see that; "perhaps becasuse..." alone is a buzz word for POV. The quotes and paraphrases from the President of the U.S. are not cited. " U.S. conservatives have voiced opposition to the show"...now this POV statement makes it sound like most conservatives are opposed to the show. Cite a reliable, reviewed source that indicates this to be true, or add in there that some U.S. moderates, liberals, and everybody in-between have expressed opposition. "If the show has a liberal slant".... encyclopedias are about facts, the nature of this statement also implies that this is not a fact, but a point of view. Cite some sources. However, I do see that "hundreds of radical right-wing messages inserted into every show by creator Matt Groening" is a direct quote from a linked episode, so I apologize for fact-tagging that.Jellonuts 03:43, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, that was all true if your memory goes back that far. But anyway, the source is good- it came from the Guardian, it's citable. On the whole, though, I wouldn't be too heart-broken if the article went to AfD- I don't know if it's important enough to get worked up about. Next time, though, try fixing stuff instead of deleting footnotes and claiming there was never any there, and adding unneeded fact tags. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 04:01, 31 January 2007 (UTC) **I do apologize for the mistakes, I am getting better at this but I am still learning as I go. I'll be sure to put things on the talk pages before making a major edit or deletion. Thanks for reminding me.Jellonuts 04:43, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

• left|150px|thumb|N.Y. Post cover from Dec. 7, 2006 -- Scorpion 04:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
  • No fair use pics on talk pages please. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 04:03, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Very well, but it still proves my point: More than one writer has used this phrase. -- Scorpion 04:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
      • I agree with you Scorpion, but not all of those writers are conservatives and not all conservatives use the term.Jellonuts 04:39, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
        • Then why not just say "however, the derisive Simpsons term for the French, "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" has been used by some right wing advocates"? -- Scorpion 04:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
        • That's fine as long as you add in there "has been used by some left-wing and moderate advocates" too. Why single out one group when several have said it?Jellonuts 04:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
          • How about just "has been used by left and right wing advocates"? -- Scorpion 05:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)