User talk:Purples

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go 'head and talk to me here....

Please read WP:TROLL, WP:POINT, and WP:SOCK and make sure that you don't fit into any of those. Cbrown1023 talk 00:47, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not breaking any rules or guidelines. Purples 02:46, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 idealism, naturalism, empiricism, and realism 2 The psychosociality of the Wikipedia Persona 3 A reply.... 4 Essjay

[edit] idealism, naturalism, empiricism, and realism

P., I reply with a philosophical answer, which you may take as you please.

There is a beautiful street in my neighborhood, a quiet one, nicely proportioned, of just the right width and length, with mature trees, nice-looking houses, children who play on its lawns, and neighbors. Once, when driving slowly along it (so as not to alarm the children) I saw a couple speaking to each other. The woman, whom I believe to be the wife, was standing on a large rock, that she might tower over the man, and she appeared to be gesturing in a power-demanding way to the man. This disturbed me, as I have the illusion that those who live on that street have wonderful lives. Clearly, I have an ideal, about that street and life, which rests in my heart.

Although I have these ideals, the love of Nature and all its power lies in my heart as well, so that I understand that the mystery and beauty inherent in N. sometimes has no room for the demands of Man. Thus there are beings in Nature who deceive simply to survive, and their lives are testament to a Nature who lets them be. They exist and survive.

I was trained to respect empiricism because that is at the root of the power of our civilization, but realism probably enjoys a better-founded set of concepts. So I believe that your principled outrage at a being who has deceived, survived, and who has even found a better gig in his existence, may be a stage in the process of

Coping with Grief and Loss -- Common reactions. -- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

1. Denial/shock It can't be
2. Anger toward the person, situation or self
3. Guilt - If only ...
4. Depression, Loneliness, Facing death, etc.
5. Relief
6. Hope
7. Return

So the outing of _ has me personally at #4. But I expect my feelings will transmute. I admit to reacting with #1. I do not feel a need to forgive, because I never felt #2. --Ancheta Wis 18:27, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

And the street to which I referred above might be taken as a metaphor for Wikipedia. My references to Nature and Reality stand on their own.

[edit] The psychosociality of the Wikipedia Persona

I did this thing, user:Geogre/People People, a while back to try to decry what I call the "Friendster side" of Wikipedia. However, the primary thing is that there is a psychological wound that people carry with them. "Everyone is just as God made them, and sometimes a great deal worse." Well, I think everyone is a good deal worse, but mainly because each person's negotiations with others is unsatisfactory. So, we're all frustrated at not being the acknowledged Emporer of Earth or Czarina of all the Russias, and so we all are attracted to where "nobody knows you're a dog." That's average. What's not average is when people have not a wound, but a disability, because their negotiations with the world have been unfair in some way. Those bullied, belittled, stereotyped, and savaged by the world of physical people are often malformed from their experiences. The fault goes to something big, and unindictable, like Society, but the consequence is that some people are particularly needful of the world of personae rather than persons. I worry about that a little, and I mourn it. What I worry about more is when a group of needy people agree with each other to ask no questions (like George and Martha with their "son" in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf) of their fictions and to act like the other fellow's personae is his person so that the other person will not look into the mouth of his own personae. That is trouble. Disaster is just one step down the line from that: when people agree to treat the persona as a person among persons. It's a small step. Geogre 12:01, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The same thing in fewer words: "On the Internet, no one knows that you're not Hans Kung, but when you try to cash his check at the bank, there might be trouble." Geogre 03:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A reply....

thanks very much for your fine food for thought - rather like a good meal, I may need a small nap to properly digest it all! I'm beginning to think that the issues that people who cannot seperate from their avatars face are not solely their responsibilities. There may be a systemic cause behind it all. I think that's what i was getting at when saying wiki-love was an unhelpful concept - perhaps I should add that to some people its been undoubtedly dangerous - constantly encouraging them to invest more and more in their personae (and if you look at the contributions, withrawing very worringly from that nasty real world). But what can we do about it beyond sharing this understanding? not sure.....

On a side note - the point you made that nobody knows anyone is particularly self-evident at the mo. in the volumes of comment about essjay - and here's an interesting person / personae question - if he just retired that username and came back as someone else, making no mention, would that be unethical? I'm going to go for a swim and ponder that one....... nice to talk with you, by the way! Purples 04:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Essjay

Ok, I went through your contribs (only 500 in two years? :) ) and I found that you started no less than three threads on Essjay's talkpage repeatedly asking him to confirm his current identity. You also got into arguments with several people who watch his page. Seriously, if you didn't get an answer the first time, why did you ask twice more? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 18:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

hi again...

well, you're certainly correct that i started three threads trying to get to the bottom of something - and you're right that some of the editors who watch essjays page took umbrage. I actually felt they were quite aggressive towards me. When i got no response, i tried to continue raising things calmly because i felt that this was a serious issue that wasn't going to go away. I hope essjay is going to move forward from here, and have wished him luck - best, Purples 22:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)