Talk:Redneck

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Contents 1 What is this here for? 2 westerners as well as southerners 3 Old talk 4 in the northern US 5 Coal miners 6 NPOV 7 Budwiser 8 America's Black Rednecks 9 Redneck is Racist Epithet 10 arguably, classist, too 11 Image size 12 Sub header 13 Scots-Irish settled outside the South as well 14 Redneck entry deleted 15 Dukes of Hazzard caption is a bit too personal. 16 NPOV & Stereotypes 17 Spelling correction reversed 18 Canadian rednecks 19 Northern Rednecks "Hicks" 20 Urban rednecks 21 Invalid Cite 22 Extraterritorial conclaves section 23 Factual accuracy 24 what does disclaimer mean? 25 consistency? 26 Band "Redneck" 27 Church of Scotland 28 Use of the word trash 29 removing urban redneck section 30 explaining my deletions 31 Must give reason for reverts 32 Recent reverts= 33 discuss disagreements on talk page 34 What about those flags? 35 Capitalization of redneck. 36 Style on "words as words" 37 Barbados 38 It's the scarf 39 Comparable terms 40 Music 41 Biased Article

[edit] What is this here for?

"redneck people are usually brought up by a retarded person by the age of 15, so they know what it is like to live like a retard would. they learn the retard ways, and soon adopt them. that is why when you see rednecks runnin round here they are usually mentally challenged. do not be afraid, they are harmless."

I tell you what, go to hell

that should be deleted right?

[edit] westerners as well as southerners

someone apparently removed the addition i made about the term referring to westerners as well as southerners.

in my opinion, the term applies as much to westerners as it does to southerners. Gringo300 00:59, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Old talk

Since Wikipedia is not a dictionary, why shouldn't I simply delete this article? Is there anything interesting whatsoever that can be said about rednecks for an encyclopedia, or are we limited to what would be contained in a dictionary of slang? --Larry Sanger

you shouldn't delete this article because i came to this encyclopaedia specifically to find out the historical origins of the word 'redneck' - please tell me what dictionary, other than the FULL edition of the OED, would contain this information?

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You should not delete it because it's fixed now.

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I agree! --LS

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..added more specific Navy Jack flag and hyperlink since this is the flag that is commonly displayed in the south as the 'Rebel Flag' (adds a bit more history/flavor for this article) --Drakcap 04:27, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Why were the Scottish, Irish, and Confederate flag pictures taken out? You might as well take the entire Scottish/Irish section out if the flags offend you.

[edit] in the northern US

In the northern US, I've heard redneck used to refer to poor whites, not necessarily rural, who have a sunburned neck from working outdoors (for example, construction workers). In fact, before Jeff Foxworthy, I don't remember hearing the term used to refer to southerners or rural people ("hick" being the more commonly used epithet for the latter). How widespread is this usage? Is anyone else familiar with it? CyborgTosser 07:00, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

the term is often used to describe westerners, as well as southerners. (westerners in the sense of people from the western part of the united states) Gringo300 20:29, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Don't know about up north but here in the south the term is VERY widespread. Pretty much everybody knows the term and the different connotations of it.Darthmalt

it's probably very widespread in the west as well. Gringo300 20:30, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

gringo300 Could you elaborate on how it describes westerners? and exactly how far west are you refering?

I'v never heard "red neck" affiliated with anything other then "southern pride". I am very familiar with the usage of this word as it is used in my surroundings. "red neck" commonly is a characteristic of a rough and tumble man who enjoys to hunt, fish, ride four wheelers, dirt bikes and/or big trucks usually with a "southern twang" accent.

Southern pride is a matter of opinion when it comes to the confederate flag. I do know blacks with the confederate flag hanging on the walls of their home and whites who find it offensive,this is in a southern college town. The dispute is so old most are content with remaining nuetral on the subject because racism is no longer a primary issue.

"hick" has a whole diffrent usage then "red neck".It is an insult refering that one is slow, stupid, nieve, incompetint, ignorant, uneducated, reckless, and/or worthless to society.

• Remember, this is society as I've experienced it, in the deep south

im also from the north, and i've never heard someone call a poor white guy a redneck :| redneck = south not just some random poor guy living in new york

There are plenty of rednecks in New Jersey, Massachusetts, Ohio, and Indiana. It's not just a regional thing. It's a cultural thing. There's a reason Larry the Cable Guy sells out stadiums nowhere near Georgia. Dubc0724 21:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coal miners

"red necks" of 1921 coal mining unionization efforts in W.Va.

In a book published in 1969, Howard B. Lee, former Attorney General of West Virginia (1925-1933), states that the men who were part of an organized effort to unionize the West Virginia coalfields in 1921 were called "Red Necks" because the men wore red hankerchiefs around their necks. The organizers wore the red hankerschiefs as a way to tell friend from foe. Lee goes on to say a local lawyer told him that during the era those union organizers jailed were indentified on the jailhouse roll via the initials "R.N." being placed beside their names, as an abbreviation for "Red Neck."

In response to CyborgTosser's question...

The use of term to identify "good ol' boys" dates back before the era of Jeff Foxworthy. During the early 1970's, while attending college in West Virginia, the term redneck was used by practically every student at the college I attended. For example: a bar identified as being a "redneck bar" meant that drinking establishment wasn't a "safe place" for blacks or other minorities, or for white male students with "long hair", to enter.

--Wva-usa 16:06, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

Their favorite activities include ... lynching, queer bashing...

Thats not acceptable, by any stretch. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 17:41, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

For fucks sake its an ADMITTED STEREOTYPE, its SUPPOSED TO BE POV! sheesh!  ALKIVAR™ 18:30, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

See chav. NPOV is non-negotiable, and besides, there are many people who self identify as redneck-americans. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 13:11, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The best way is to leave all POV in the article.

The entire Stereotype section is unacceptable and violates Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View Standards. I placed a POV section check on this section so this can be talked about. Solarusdude 02:05, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

There does exist a popular stereotype of the "redneck" in the United States, whether you personally like that fact (or even care to acknowledge it) or not. (Jeff Foxworthy has built his entire career around it.) NPOV requires that we record all extant POVs, whether you happen to agree with them or not. I propose removing the NPOV dispute tag at once. Kwertii 22:09, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Since there have been no objections, I'm removing the NPOV dispute tag. Kwertii 23:40, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Ah excuse me, have you ever bothered reading the NPOV page? This whole section is structured around stereotypes that I find quite offensive toward Southerners and has absolutely no educational value whatsoever. While we're at it, why don't we create an article entitled, "Faggot" and then list stereotypes that society views on homosexuals. Please. Let's keep the NPOV standards the way they are and delete this garbage. --Solarusdude 19:07, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Uh, there already is an article entitled Faggot. It's at Faggot (epithet). I'm certain your contributions will be valuable. 213.86.59.92 13:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Budwiser

Budweiser isn't cheap. sghdgfhsgh

[edit] America's Black Rednecks

This topic just got a whole lot more interesting. See Crippled by Their Culture Race doesn't hold back America's black rednecks. Nor does racism by Thomas Sowell, author of Black Rednecks and White Liberals, Encounter Books, 2005, ISBN 1594030863

Perhaps the historic definition deserves more serious treatment.

I just skimmed this article, but its premise is absurd. The author -- obviously white (I can't imagine such abysmal ignorance on the part of an African-American) -- appears to know nothing about black culture and assumes southern black culture and white-trash southern culture to be one and the same. That presumption is so riddled with fallacies, I don't know where to begin. Further, there is no such thing as a "black redneck"; the term is itself an oxymoron. It's simply a hook manufactured to sell books. I very much doubt that this work will have any staying power among serious scholars in terms of a realistic examination of the culture of poverty and underachievement of the black underclass in the U.S. Whites and knee-grows like Ward Connerly are constantly searching for ways to debunk the power of race and racism in American society, to let white America off the hook. Well, this doesn't even come close. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than pop cultural "analysis" (and I use the term loosely) and hasty conclusions based on a catchy -- and, I might add, very silly -- phrase to fully understand the plight of the black underclass. And, while ultimately the key to the fate of any one person is primarily and ultimately personal responsibility, racism remains a major factor today in who wins and who loses in life -- and, in fact, who has a ticket to the game and who remains on the other side of the fence altogether, on the outside, looking in. deeceevoice 00:00, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

he's black, see Thomas Sowell or heck, see bill cosby ;) Sam Spade 00:36, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Well, just goes to show there are black fools, too. (Another Connerly, perhaps?) deeceevoice 03:42, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I just caught your reference to Cosby, Spade. Cosby would be one of the first to acknowledge the importance of the deleterious effects of racism on blacks in America. This crap is a prime example of why some blacks objected to Cosby's comments -- that outsiders (white folks or self-loathing, self-righteous black folks who sniff up white folks' bee-hinds) would take them and run with them -- in the wrong direction. But, then, there are those of us who just don't give a damn what white folks think, who trust that most black folks will understand his words' appropriate historical, social, political -- and most certainly cultural -- context. deeceevoice 16:34, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I care what other people think regardless of their race, but I guess thats just me... Sam Spade 21:34, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

LOL. Well, good luck with that! :D

The fact of the matter is most white folks are so far from understanding; and, IMO, so many of them have agendas/views that are so antithetical to the well-being and advancement of black folks, that I don't care what they think. If I did, I'd be in real trouble. And, frankly, I don't care what anyone who's not black thinks about the race. IMO, if you know who you are and where you come from, what other people think of you and yours don't mean shyt. And that's a fact. Peace. deeceevoice 22:19, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

there are definitely blacks that are as country as any white redneck, but i still don't think the term redneck is the correct term for them. maybe "black country people"? Gringo300 03:08, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

I have to say that being a "Redneck" myself, that I believe blacks can be just as redneck as whites. Just because they are black does not mean they cannot be rednecks. The term "Redneck" no longer means someone who has been working in the sun and has a red neck. It is a term that can be either derrogatory or endearing. I am not a low-class white girl, but I still consider myself a redneck seeing as my family is all from the deep south(Louisiana to be exact)and the way my family has grown up. This being said, I fully understand when someone calls an african-american a "Redneck". --ViperGurl 18:05, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

"it is a term that can be either derogatory or endearing"- the term "redneck" can also be used without EITHER an inherently positive OR inherently negative connotation, and i added that to the article. Gringo300 06:14, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Over 60% of African-Americans live in the South. not all blacks live in the city. rural areas of the south are usually have a heavy black population. the blacks and whites of these areas share a similar lifestyle. Redneck can really be used to describe any lower class non-urban southerner, so blacks can certainly be rednecks. the average black in the rural south has far more in common with the whites who live near them than they do with black people living in new york city

[edit] Redneck is Racist Epithet

Redneck, because it can be negative (not always, though) and refers to skin color and discoloration, mostly due to economic status (working outside, originally), is a term that must be classified as racist - a racist epithet. Users of the term, both negative and positive each may have reasons to delete this fact so they can continue to use the term freely, but their opinions that redneck does not refer to race and skin color are NPOV, and not fact - besides, nothing prevents them from using the term if they wish, but by definition, it is a racist term.

• see below

Gringo300 04:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

that is absurd. i have heard the term "redneck" used in reference to anybody living in rural areas, with no mention of race. perhaps statistically, many people in such areas are white, which is simply a matter of circumstance.

definately a derogatory term... comparable to the "n word" where some will "wear the word with pride" whilest others find the word insulting. something should definately be said about the subtle racism towards "rednecks" by labelling them as "rednecks"

Although rednecks tend to be white (by definition?), the term is used by non-redneck whites as well as blacks. The term today tends to have greater resonance as an indicator of class rather than race. Mdgr 06:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Use of the word Nigger? Can we use this word in a context which is encyclopedic? Using it as a corollary example to redneck as a word that can be a slur, or a term of inclusion seems a valid and inoffensive usage. Senator Cooter 22:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] arguably, classist, too

arguably, the term redneck is CLASSIST as much or MORE so than it is racist. the people who are described as rednecks are disproportionately poor. historically, the word was used disproportionately by the rich.

the rich tended to be lighter skinned because they didn't have to work out in the sun (or work PERIOD!).

the poor had to work out in the sun, and thus had darker skin- suntans and sunburns, including on the neck, thus REDNECKS.

Gringo300 10:51, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

i edited the article slightly both to comment on the classism issue in as NPOV way as i could think of, and to attempt to bring the article back to a NPOV, which a previous editer had blatantly taken it away from. Gringo300 10:59, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image size

I feel the dukes of hazzard cast photo needs to be of enourmous size in order to display the full diversity of redneck culture which it contains. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 28 June 2005 13:02 (UTC)

[edit] Sub header

I changed the subheader reading "Insults" to "Stereotype", as that seemed a more accurate description. -- Infrogmation 14:46, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Scots-Irish settled outside the South as well

An objection keeps being raise saying that rednecks exist elsewhere. Of course they do, which is why I said it is used sometimes to describe those of Scots-Irish descent, some members of which settled outside of the South. It is, however, also used by people, who could in no way be associated with the term, to vaguely describe some Southerners who may or may not be of Scots-Irish descent. Gretchen Wilson is part Scots-Irish.

[edit] Redneck entry deleted

I addressed that the Scots-irish are the people often called redneck. By simply saying that, the point should have been taken that rednecks aren't confined only to the South. That wasn't good and the furious person has completely eliminated the entry. They obviously are ignorant about the history of the Scots-irish and where they settled. That is too bad, because the original entry was good, just ignorant about the subgroups.

[edit] Dukes of Hazzard caption is a bit too personal.

I believe the picture/caption of the Dukes of Hazzard cast, calling them "Assorted rednecks" was more of a personal attack or opinion than a piece of information.

In line with the above comment, The image of the Dukes is due to be deleted as a possible copyvio, is a poor image, and isn't necessary to the article. Can anyone substitute a better or more appropriate picture? DavidFarmbrough 16:13, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I'll see if I can find a pic from my latest family reunion. :) --WAHooker 14:05, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm the one who called them assorted rednecks, and I grew up watching that show in appalacia ;) Sam Spade 04:18, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV & Stereotypes

I understand that this article describes a stereotype and therefore it has to express certain stereotypical views. But at the moment it is badly worded, it expresses these views as if they were fact. For example instead of saying "Rednecks are generally this and this and generally do that and that" it should state "The basic stereotypical view is that Rednecks are this and this and do that and that". There is also a huge section which currently comes under Modern usage which should come under Stereotypes. —gorgan_almighty 09:57, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

And all of these broad-brush claims should be sourced, don't you think? Sincerely, GeorgeLouis 03:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling correction reversed

In the first line of this article is stated "Please note that his article describes a stereotype and...". I believe that "his" should be "this" and made that correction yesterday. The change was since reversed. Was I incorrect?

—Clubjuggle 23:26, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canadian rednecks

Does anybody have any verifiable information as to Canadian rednecks? Basically, Ontarians think everybody in Alberta is a redneck, while Albertans think everybody in southwestern Ontario and the interior of BC is a redneck. However, my personal experience is hardly "verifiable". --Charlene.vickers 06:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Northern Rednecks "Hicks"

I found that there are what is considered redneck culture in the far up north eastern part of the US. Such as Maine and New Hampshire and Vermont. The term is called "hicks" up there and it is extremely rural. I think that everywhere in America has rednecks and hicks. After all Vermont does have the easiest gun laws in the country.

That's only using the modern term "redneck", which is often view as being synonymous and interchangeable with "hick", however the term redneck came into existance to describe ulster-scots covenantors. That many who maintain that such an identity can also be described by the uncharitable as "hicks" is purely coincidental. Not all rednecks are hicks and not all hicks are rednecks. Mdgr 06:48, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Urban rednecks

I removed the "urban redneck" becuase it appears wholy unsourced. Please provide a source before re-adding it. There are a number of other unsourced assertions in the article too. -Will Beback 02:38, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Invalid Cite

"In recent years, members of the American Left from the West Coast and New England have taken to calling Christian Conservatives as "Rednecks" presumably as an insult. [1] This practice succeeds in insulting both Rednecks and Christian Conservatives, but is grossly inaccurate based on the pro-labor, anti-establishment, anti-hierarchy religious orientation of traditional Rednecks." The cite for this article is an opinion piece at the nydailynews. I do not think this counts as a valid cite for a "fact." Anyone else care to discuss?Manufracture 02:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

That is right. We can still use this source, but it should be attributed as an opinion. "Charles Krauthammer, in a 2004 opinion piece in the NY Daily News, criticized the American Left for..." -Will Beback 20:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Its July and it still hasnt been fixed. I am taking it out. Also, found almost the exact same line but completely unsourced under the page for "cracker". If someone wants to fix it and put it back in thats fine. Jasper23 20:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Extraterritorial conclaves section

I'm not going to just remove this section right now because it has some useful info, but it doesn't belong in this article. This is an article about a stereotype, not an actual group of people. The information belongs in articles about the various people it describes. --Allen 02:09, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Factual accuracy

I don't want to cause trouble, but there are plenty of northern rednecks. In fact I usually hear it qualified as "Southern redneck" if the term is used toward a southerner, and appalacian's are hillbillies, not rednecks...

Sam Spade 02:42, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what does disclaimer mean?

Please note that this article describes a stereotype and therefore it has to express certain stereotypical views. They are included here in order to document the existence of the specific socioeconomic group, and to a lesser degree ethnic group, to which these stereotypes are believed to apply.

I removed this from the top of the page a few days ago and someone put it back. Why is it here? And what does it mean? If "express" means describe, well, of course it describes a stereotype. If "express" means that the article itself has to say things like, "rednecks are such-and-such", then no, it doesn't have to do that. Why would it? And what about this second sentence? Why would we be trying to document the existence of whatever class or ethnic group? What does that have to do with explaining the redneck stereotype? --Allen 05:15, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] consistency?

WhiskyWhiskers, you undid a lot of changes with your last edit. Could you explain exactly what you found inconsistent about the previous version? Thanks. --Allen 17:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

WhiskyWhiskers, thank you for using a longer edit summary for your last edit. However, I still feel like you haven't fully explained the changes you want to make. For example, User:H Bruthzoo argues that the three flags serve no purpose in the article. You seem to feel that they do serve a purpose. What purpose do you think they serve? How do images of the Irish, Scottish, and Confederate flags help a reader understand the redneck stereotype? Thanks. --Allen 00:16, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

No response, so I'm removing them again. --Allen 06:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Band "Redneck"

I've just bought a record from a band called "Redneck" called "Wonderland". As I guess from the cover, they seem to be from Australia. The record was released on Columbia Records/Sony Australia in 1998. I guess it might make sense to either include the band in the article or to have a crossways-page linking to this article and one on the band. But since I'm a wikipedia-beginner and don't know about the band yet, I'll leave this to you :). --cypher 15:46, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

The Album is called Redneck Wonderland by the Australian band Midnight Oil. The use of "Redneck" in this instance is not used to describe the historical Ulster-Scots "Redneck", but to describe right-wing, unsophisticated rural dwellers of Australia (Similar to the perjoritive use of the word found in North-America and elsewhere). The Album title was a reflection of the government of the day and the band's belief that it was creating in Australia a Redneck Wonderland. Mdgr 06:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Church of Scotland

The Church of England was never the official church in Scotland. Be careful about claims that the National Covenant was signed in blood; this is largely based upon myth. Rcpaterson 01:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of the word trash

There should be a link to the terms white trash and trailer trash.Some people may use the terms interchangeably . Someone proud to be a redneck may use the terms as an insult to people of a lower economic class or considered morally inferior.

Modern usage is totally innacurate .Everyone is not a redneck ,even though it's currently the cool thing to be.If you want sources do a google search and read some blogs.

[edit] removing urban redneck section

I am removing the Urban Redneck section. It has sources, but none of the sources actually use any of the terms discussed. I can see how one might take the concepts described or alluded to in the references and decide to call them "Urban redneck", etc., but that is original research. Also, please see WP:RS; blogs are not normally considered reliable sources. --Allen 21:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] explaining my deletions

I am re-deleting both the "Urban Rednecks" section and Daily News op-ed thing. For the Urban Rednecks section, an anon is re-adding the section with the edit summary, "McW version". This means nothing to me. Please explain here on the talk page. For the Daily News thing, several people have noted on the talk page that the text is POV, and no one has offered a counter-argument. In this context, the section being "longstanding" is not a good enough reason to keep it. --Allen 21:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Must give reason for reverts

If you are going to change the work of other editors, please give a justification. The article you cited is actually an editorial. Absolutely not a NPOV source. You have to find a source that meets Wiki guidelines. Jasper23 23:15, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent reverts=

The recent revert sources an op/ed article, and is blatently POV. This not only goes against Wiki guidelines, but takes the neutrality from the article as well. If the paragraph can be neutralized, and sources OTHER than an op/ed piece from New York can be access, by all means add it. But until then, keep it out of the article. Rsm99833 18:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

rsm99833..check your messages. Your last revert added in the op/ed article and made the page blatantly pov. There seems to have been some confusion as to which version was which and who was who.

My bad. I should drink my caffinated beverage before doing edits. Rsm99833 19:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] discuss disagreements on talk page

Jasper23, Rsm99833, and I have already explained why the "urban redneck" section and the thing about liberals using the word as an insult do not belong here. If you're having trouble finding the relevant comments, see #removing_urban_redneck_section, #explaining my deletions, #Must give reason for reverts, and #Recent reverts=. If you're having trouble understanding why you should respond to arguments on the talk page, please see Wikipedia:Resolving_disputes#First_step:_talk_to_the_other_parties_involved. --Allen 17:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What about those flags?

I don't get it. Why are the flags there? What does saltire mean in their captions?

Sincerely,

GeorgeLouis 16:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I didn't get a response, so I am removing them.

Your friend, GeorgeLouis 04:57, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

You don't understand so you delete. Do you think that's reasonable? Saltire simply means a cross-shaped design in flags, etc.

Here's a link to an Encarta article about it:

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/searchdetail.aspx?q=what+does+saltire+mean&pg=1&grp=ans

Scotland and Ireland were being discussed. So were rednecks and the "redneck flag" or Confederate Naval Jack. The flags represent a link in design as well as origin of a large percentage of the "redneck" population of the South.

Somebody restored the flags and explained saltire. I appreciate the definition; I thought it was a misprint for "satire." Then the flags were again removed, and I appreciate that, too. I am just full of appreciation.

Anyway, I don't think the Scottish national flag belongs in this article, since the article refers to Scots-Irish. Nor the St. Patrick's flag, which was not a symbol of anything very profound up to a few years ago, according to the brief research I did, which lasted all of 75 seconds. I don't think any redneck actually saluted one or flew one or blew his nose on one. And if we need a picture of the Confederate flag on the back of some ratty ol' pickup truck, maybe we should find one, or shoot one, and post it. Anyway, the flags are political symbols and don't belong smack dab against a section on etymology.

I am only trying to make this article a little more professional. The other graphics seem OK on without my examining them too closely.

Sincerely, GeorgeLouis 00:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

This whole "redneck" article is political and unprofessional. Have fun with your deletions.

First of all, the flags do not resemble the confederate flag. Please look on the CSA to confirm this. Secondly, rather than complain about what's wrong, take some initiative, and add or edit material. If someone disagrees with your edit, bring it up in discussion here. We all do it. Why not you? Rsm99833 03:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

They most certainly do resemble the Confederate Naval Jack. They are all SALTIRES.

As to your "if someone disagrees with your edit, bring it up here"...that is precisely what was done. George deleted the flags before he even knew what a saltire was. The only reason the flags were there was to show that a large portion of imigrants to the Old South were from areas where saltires were flown - Scotland and Ireland. If you can't see the connection, it's not because there isn't one.

First of all, I said nothing about the flags resembling the Confederate NAVAL flags. Please read what I wrote, thanks. Secondly, I do know the connection, AND have given sources to show this. Thirdly, please review the following link for flags [2]. Have a good week. Rsm99833 06:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I did read what you typed. You said "look upon the CSA"...I'm supposed to look upon the Confederate States of America? That made no sense to me. Now I know you meant look at the Wikipedia article about the CSA. You said the flags don't resemble the Confederate flag. The Naval Jack WAS A CONFEDERATE FLAG. I'm well aware of EVERY Confederate flag. The Confederate flag that was shown and DELETED was the Confederate Naval Jack. The one most associated with "rednecks" is the Confederate Naval Jack, not the "Stars and Bars." The "Bonnie Blue" Flag was also a Confederate flag, but you don't see people making a fuss over it being a "redneck flag" either. There were a lot more Confederate flags than the ones shown in the Wikipedia CSA article.

Thanks, I'll have a nice week, God willing. You have a nice week as well.

Just FYI, The Naval flag while it was flown under the CSA as an identifier, it was NOT the confederate flag. That was a Naval Battle Flag. A very big difference. Would you hold up a the modern US Navy flag in place of the US flag? Rsm99833 02:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

It is A Confederate flag. If you held up a US Naval Jack, the US Stars and Stripes, a Confederate Naval Jack, the Confederate Stars and Bars, then asked which was the Confederate flag most associated with rednecks and the Old South, which do you think they'd point to?

[edit] Capitalization of redneck.

Hello, everybody. I realize that some folks would like to capitalize redneck, but I have found no dictionaries that do so. If you find any, please cite it here. Thank you so much. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis 04:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Style on "words as words"

Dear fellow editors:

I am enjoying editing this article because I am learning a good deal from it, and I set forth the information below in great good will for all of you to consider:

In conformity with most stylebooks, when we talk about words and phrases AS words and phrases, we should italicize them. For example:

The term redneck was first used by green men from Mars who landed in the Australian outback and were amazed to see white men on horseback.

But when it is used in a normal sense (not as a word in itself), we should leave it in Roman (NO italics) and not capitalized, viz.:

You might be a redneck if you like hound dogs and drink moonshine whisky.

Of course, if it's a book title, the word IS capitalized, and the entire title is put in italics:

The Redneck Revolution by Steve Nance (Ocean Park Press, 1985).

When we see a direct quote, we should leave the capitalization and italicization as it is inside the quote marks, viz.:

Professor Smedlley G. Snurkins wrote of the phenomenon: "We can certainly identify with the 'Redneck' philosophy in some respects."

In my most recent edit, I have tried to stick to the above rules. I sincerely hope you agree and will try to follow them.

Sincerely, GeorgeLouis 06:37, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barbados

Are we sure that the "poor whites" were also descended from slaves? Is there a source? It would seem that the offspring in the first generation would be classified as black and the baby's descendants would most likely not be "poor whites." Let's discuss. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis 15:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, there is a source. A couple of them, actually. First, you have the book Redneck Redneck Manifesto by Jim Goad [3] and also 'They Were White and They Were Slaves: The Untold History of the Enslavement of Whites in Early America' by Michael A. Hoffman [4]. Rsm99833 15:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Good. Will you put "slaves" back, with a footnote? Sincerely, GeorgeLouis 16:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I would love to, except I'm horrible with putting in footnotes. Would someone with a bit more experience do this?Rsm99833 17:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Just paste in the URL where you want your footnote and put TWO square brackets around it. Or — just paste in the URL without the brackets and let somebody else do it. Try it; you will have a sudden sense of power. GeorgeLouis 21:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] It's the scarf

The term redneck refers to the red scarves worn by Scotch Irish militia's during the American Revolution-Whiskey Rebellion. No mention made of that crucial fact. Citations abound, take your pick.

Put it up yourself. Don't forget to source. Rsm99833 05:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comparable terms

"Redneck" is not like "nigger". The latter is generally considered a far more derogatory term. I don't see any need to include it in this article. -Will Beback 23:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Some people don't consider "redneck" particularly derogatory even when used by outsiders. Virtually nobody sees "nigger" as anything less than the most vile racial insult in America when used by outsiders. Even when used by insiders, the uses are very different. "Cracker" would be a closer analogue, and even that's nowhere close. --Allen 23:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Reminding involved users about the page Wikipedia:Profanity, for possible future issues. Hyenaste ^(tell) 23:34, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. A more comparable term might be "queer", which has been reclaimed and is no longer considered derogatory whether or not used by outsiders. Same goes for "redneck". I don't see it as a particularly derogatory term. In point of fact both are terms of pride in ones own identity. 70.108.83.142 02:05, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that is close. Even so, I don't see the need to include any other term. We do a good enough job of explaining the point without need comparisons, especially those we draw ourselves. -Will Beback 03:25, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Nigger please! Queer is so much worse than Nigger, it is beyond comparison. Imagine this exchange: "Bubba - I hear't your son is a Nigger/Queer!" Obviously Bubba would be much happier to have a black son than a homo one. 66.138.26.9 07:05, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

In which case neither is like "redneck", a term which any father would be happy to hear applied to his son. Which brings us back - why do we need a comparison? If one is good than maybe we should include several - "Queer", Nigger", etc. -Will Beback 07:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

This is crazy. There are many arguments for exclusion and I have not heard one decent argument for inclusion. This stays out. Putting it back in is semi-vandalism. Jasper23 07:52, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Redneck is usually not an insult :| Many southerners refer to themselves as a redneck. And i think its getting a little predjudice about the gay and racial comments so can we please stop as it is offensive Malevious 13:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Music

Can we please stop adding the metal music shit to the article? it isnt a stereotype about rednecks. the stereotype for rednecks is they listen to country music not metal so can we come up with a decision so this stuff can stop? Malevious 20:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Biased Article

This article is very pro-usage of the word "redneck". The article should also state the other viewpoint against the usage of the word.Casey14 02:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)