Talk:Roman Senate
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[edit] Organization
The history of the senate needs to be laid out into sections:
==Early Republic==
==Late Republic==
==Early Empire==
==Middle Empire==
==Late Empire==
==Byzantine== (?)
I can't do it justice -- my knowledge is rusty and I'm away from my Roman Senate primary material. But the point is the Senate went from an iron grip on the Republic, to an old boy's club, to a rubber stamp, to an irrelevant body of old men in Rome, to an even less relevant body of old men in Constantinople.
- Reid 07:09, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)
When was the Roman Senate revived in the Middle Ages? Wetman 01:37, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- "Revived"? Never heard of that. In the Middle Ages the Pope ruled Rome, he wouldn't have wanted any help. :-) Stan 04:10, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Colas de Rienzi. I know there was some kind of symbolic Roman Senate in the 1300s. I better check... Wetman 04:14, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
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- What do you mean by "old boy's club?" My Latin teacher refered to it as that.
Here's this, from http://www.factmonster.com/:
- "Papal authority was challenged in the 12th cent. by the communal movement. A commune was set up (1144–55), led by Arnold of Brescia, but it was subdued by the intervention of Emperor Frederick I. Finally, a republic under papal patronage was established, headed by an elected senator. However, civil strife continued between popular and aristocratic factions and between Guelphs and Ghibellines. The commune made war to subdue neighboring cities, for it pretended to rule over the Papal States, particularly the duchy of Rome, which included Latium and parts of Tuscany. Innocent III controlled the government of the city, but it regained its autonomy after the accession of Emperor Frederick II. Later in the 13th cent. foreign senators began to be chosen; among them were Brancaleone degli Andalò (1252–58) and Charles I of Naples."
This needs looking into... Wetman 04:26, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
This article needs breaking up into subsections, at the moment it's one long chunk of prose and it's badly presented.
[edit] Style of dress
Are modern scholars sure that the purple stripe was on the right shoulder and not down the front of the tunic? I thought there was debate over that. Certainly the popular conception is down the front of the tunic.Binabik80 05:44, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Pedarii
In what way were the pedarii "like parliamentary backbenchers"? It's true that neither pedarii nor backbenchers are currently out of magisterial/ministerial office, but the key fact about pedarii is that they had never held office. And in context, the article seems to be implying that pedarii are similar to backbenchers because they had no speaking rights, which is a bizarre claim to make about backbenchers. Furthermore, the primary purpose of a backbencher is to vote the way his party wants him to vote, while of course the pedarius, like everyone else in the political party-less Roman Senate, voted his conscience.
If no one responds in two days I'll remove the reference.Binabik80 05:50, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Having seen no objections, I've deleted the clause.Binabik80 02:39, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I think I would have to disagree that they were non-office holding Senators. From my understanding, the Senate consisted of ONLY former and current office holding magistrates, at elast until the times of Sulla and his heirs (when appointments became common). Anyway, I have transcribed this entry from the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Roman Law:
Senatores Pedarii. The term is not quite clear; its origin was obscure to ancient writers, as related by Gellius (Noct. Att. 3.18). Senatores Pedarii were either senators who had held a lower, non-curule magistracy or ex-magistrates who had not yet been enrolled into the list of senators by the censors. The term pedarii was perhaps connected somehow with the senate's way of voting by a division of the voters (pedibus in sententiam ire, see DISCESSIO). The senatores pedarii could participate only in this form of voting and were excluded from taking part in discussion. - O'Brien-Moore, RE Suppl. 6, 680; M. A. De Dominicis, Il ius sententiae senato rom., 1932.
So, as we can see, one way or another, they were former magistrates. But, as today, there were lesser civil service types in Rome. These were the vigintisexviri and such. Managers of sewage, street-sweeping, etc etc. But nevertheless magistrates. Of course, I think these were not what brought men into the Senate, but were considered stepping-stones. But surely there were enough quaestors and quaestores-elect to create a good deal of pedarii. After all, due to the nature of the republican beast, only so many would ever reach higher office. There were simply not enough offices to go around.
Of course, what this article does not mention is the possibility that these pedarii were in fact these lesser magistrates who were not even quaestorial. And thus were relegated to standing on the sides, so to speak.Cjcaesar
[edit] Last Mention
Can anyone tell me the source for the last known act(s) of the Roman Senate? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cjcaesar (talk • contribs) 19:58, 26 January 2006 (UTC).
[edit] Membership
How did one become a senator? By appointment? (By whom?) By election? (By which assembly?) What were the requirements for membership? Age? Wealth? Class? Presumably one had at least to be a Roman citizen (at least until the appointments made in the time of Julius Caesar). None of this seems to be mentioned under "Membership".
