Talk:Selfishness
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[edit] Selfishness = Good?
We have an article on selfishness and every subheading is about theories or ideas that view selfishness in only a positive light? That is obvious bias and this article needs information from the other side about the negative aspects of selfishness. U R A GR8 M8 11:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Egotistical?
When I was in psychology class we learnt a definition of egotistical that was different from selfishness. Should they really be in the same article? Ashi129.105.14.216 00:04, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Bias
I believe that the first paragraph is biased. The introduction shouldn't describe any particular view but a basic description of what the word means. I plan on changing it. I will, however, keep the descriptions. D prime 03:31, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] 'Sole' concern change
160.193.56.93 changed the first paragraph/sentence from:
- Selfishness is a primary or sole concern with one's own welfare.
to:
- Selfishness is a primary or sole concern with one's own welfare without concerning the others' welfare.
Um, what exactly do you think "sole" implies? :) Reverting. - Korpios 02:21, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Term "sole" does not cover the meaning deep enough. Collins Cobuild defines the term as follows:
- Selfish:
- "If you say that someone is selfish, you mean that he or she cares only about himself or herself, and not about other people"
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- From Dictionary.com:
- "Concerned chiefly or only with oneself"
- Exactly how does "sole" not "cover the meaning deep enough"? It seems to cover the meaning exactly. "Sole" means "Of or relating to only one individual or group; exclusive" (again, Dictionary.com). Are you arguing against the inclusion of "primary or"? If so, again, note the definition; one can be selfish and care for others so long as one's chief, primary, main concern is for oneself.
- - Korpios 02:47, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
i feel that in common usage "selfishness" is more a tendency to have "primary or sole concern with one's own welfare" than a concern per se. sure, when you speak of someone's selfishness in a particular circumstance, you really do mean the latter. but generally you probably mean a character trait that is not restricted to a particular concern. - 160.39.129.96
- Wouldn't the meaning you suggest simply be a "tendency for selfishness"? - Korpios 20:52, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Self Interest
Selfishness: Jungle Self Interest, Enlightened self-interest:
- Survival is proportional to your power.
- A strong tribe in a jungle is more likely to survive than a weak tribe.
- Survival of the fittest; there are no laws—power makes right.
But technological advancement and training bring Enlightenment:
- Societal (enlightened) self-interest:
- Survival is proportional to playing by the rules, laws, or custom—right makes power.
Yesselman 21:17, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Virtue of Selfishness
From Introduction of Ayn Rand's The Virtue of Selfishness, ISBN: 0451163931, p. vii.
- The title of this book may evoke the kind of question that I hear once in a while: "Why do you use the word 'selfishness' to denote virtuous qualities of character, when that word antagonizes so many people to whom it does not mean the things you mean?"
- To those who ask it, my answer is: "For the reason that makes you afraid of it."
- But there are others, who would not ask that question, sensing the moral cowardice it implies, yet who are unable to formulate my actual reason or to identify the profound moral issue involved. It is to them that I will give a more explicit answer.
- It is not a mere semantic issue nor a matter of arbitrary choice. The meaning ascribed in popular usage to the word "selfishness" is not merely wrong: it represents a devastating intellectual "package-deal," which is responsible, more than any other single factor, for the arrested moral development of mankind.
- In popular usage, the word "selfishness" is a synonym of evil; the image it conjures is of a murderous brute who tramples over piles of corpses to achieve his own ends, who cares for no living being and pursues nothing but the gratification of the mindless whims of any immediate moment.
- Yet the exact meaning and dictionary definition of the word "selfishness" is: concern with one's own {true} interests.
From Ayn Rand's The Virtue of Selfishness, ISBN: 0451163931, p. 70 by Nathanel Branden.
- A genuine selfishness—that is: a genuine concern with discovering what is to one's self-interest, an acceptance of the responsibility of achieving it, a refusal ever to betray it by acting on the blind whim, mood, impulse or feeling of the moment, an uncompromising loyalty to one's judgment, convictions and values—represents a profound moral achievement. Those who assert that "everyone is selfish" commonly intend their statement as an expression of cynicism and contempt. But the truth is that their statement pays mankind a compliment it does not deserve.
Yesselman 18:19, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
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- "The image it conjures is of a murderous brute who tramples over piles of corpses to achieve his own ends, who cares for no living being and pursues nothing but the gratification of the mindless whims of any immediate moment."
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- Give me a break. It sounds like your confusing selfishness for nihilism, of which is absolutely not intention.
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- "Yet the exact meaning and dictionary definition of the word 'selfishness' is: concern with one's own {true} interests."
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- And that's because it's exactly right. Resaebiunne 16:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Citation & reword
Added VoS citation (copied from above, tx).--TJ 15:19, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Reworded "is claimed requires" to "is defined to require" which tries to preserve the original meaning while sounding better.--TJ 15:19, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Altruism
I removed the statement before the "See Also" section which refered to Altruism as "the opposite of selfishness." This is not necessarily the case. Resaebiunne 16:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
