Talk:Silent Hill influences and trivia

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This article was nominated for deletion on 21 January 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep.

Hello! I've created this page because the "influences and trivia" sections on the pages for various Silent Hill games had accumulated more unseemly bloat than an insane cancer, with a lot of information overlap, duplication, and contradiction. Any sources for some of this info that you can add (Konami promos, etc, most of which haven't been translated) would be great. Tzaquiel 18:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 original research and lack of sources is disturbing tolerable for now 2 Silent Hill 2 reference in Silent Hill 3 3 Deletion Survey 4 Name change? 5 SH Based on Town in California 6 Orphaned images 7 Metal Gear Solid 8 Pruning

[edit] original research and lack of sources is disturbing tolerable for now

Absolutely NONE of the information found here is backed up with a reliable (or even unreliable) source. It seems that anyone who notices any similarity between Silent Hill and other media reports it here, no matter how baseless it may actually be. I say this article should undergo an extreme makeover, taking out anything that even sounds like it may be original research until a source can be found. 199.126.137.209 08:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

So you are saying that you'd rather have this page innadated with images from the first silent hill on each of the street names, store pictures and stuff? Okee doke. I'll do what I can. --Thaddius 17:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

As you may or may not have noticed, random user with no account, I have started the tedious task of putting up images supporting the claims of references in the first SH game. This is turning out to be a rather daunting task as one can see by just how many references are in the first game. I hope random user appreciates my effort. Any help would be much appreciated as some of these images are hard to get. I'm also releasing all of my images to public domain. I'd hope that those helping would to the same. Thanks. --Thaddius 17:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

You should've seen the info before the cleanup/merge. Anyway, I've added a couple of sources for the info I've contributed, and I tried to remove some of the most egregious stupidity. My vote is to let someone with the time and Japanese skills source more of this info and not throw the page into an edit war now that it's just starting to look acceptable. Tzaquiel 12:57, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Silent Hill 2 reference in Silent Hill 3

The article states "the PC version requires some tinkering with the registry" to get the toilet-scene to show up. I've yet to find any info on how to do this, so a link to a source or guide would be appreciated. 213.84.115.78 12:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion Survey

Alright, one person feels that wikipedia can't benefit from this article, so... who thinks this article should be deleted? Support if you feel it should be deleted, Oppose if you feel is shouldn't. Please state some reasons or something. --Thaddius 05:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose: This page was compiled on each SH game page and moved here to avoid 'lists'. There is some rather interesting info here and I'd hate to see it go. --Thaddius 05:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose for the time being. Nevertheless, I can understand the reasons for deletion and am posting this under the understanding that the informaiton here can and will be eventually be added back to the mainpages of the subjects in an orderly form, as I was attempting to do with Silent Hill 2. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 11:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose: I agree with Thaddius on his claim to "list aversion". While I do understand that, under normal circumstances, a detailed wiki on a video game's trivia would be more suitable on a video game wiki, it should be noted that the number of references/trivia on outside (non video game) works could prove an exception to this rule; especially judging the content and story of the game itself, and its own similarity to the aforementioned works. And I, too, would hate to see this interesting page go. --Xavier Valtiel 3:51 PM (CT), January 21, 2007
• Comment: It's in AFD now, since the prod was removed. This type of article isn't useful for Wikipedia, and is better suited for a video game Wiki. If every popular series had an article like this, Wikipedia would be flooded. Wikipedia isn't a guide to trivia. Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections in articles clearly states this. RobJ1981 22:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: I can't see any other game article going in this direction. I can't speak for the other games, but the first one DOES have all these intentional references in it and it's very interesting that the game designers went to all this trouble to do this. While you feel its not suited for Wikipedia, I disagree because it is an integral part of this game. You don't think video games fit in Wikipedia but there are MANY articles on games and systems, and you can't slate all of them for deletion. --Thaddius 02:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: I second that completely. Adding to Thaddius' claim, I also think that we should stop looking at some games as just that. Discussions such as this is more than enough proof that Silent Hill (among certain other games) could be looked upon as an art form not much different than a movie or book (both subjects of which garnering their own triva pages.) And the sheer number of proven trivia in the series has earned the series its own page. This isn't just another game, and shouldn't be looked upon as such. --Xavier Valtiel 10:01 PM (CT), January 21, 2007

• Oppose. While I understand the sentiment behind the move to delete, Silent Hill contains an exhaustive amount of references to other works and is generally considered to be a milestone in horror gaming. I created this page because scattershot trivia references were clogging up the main game pages. While this page may be an inelegant solution, deleting it out of purist notions of "cleaning up" Wikipedia will only serve to do exactly the opposite, as people will start plugging all these various assorted facts back into the main pages. Tzaquiel 18:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Go here to discuss now.

[edit] Name change?

If this article survives the AfD (which at this point seems likely), pehaps it should be renamed something along the lines of "Silent Hill influences and backstory" to ward off hardcore deletionists in the future? - Tzaquiel 18:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SH Based on Town in California

Considering the evidence in the second and fourth games that Silent Hill is in Maine, as well as all of the references to Stephen King, whose stories strongly influence the game, I think it's safe to conclude that the game was probably designed more on a New England Town. I actually posit that the games are based on Bangor, Maine, especially downtown, which has similar arcitecture, similar layout, and even a waterfront. This would make the most sense, since Stephen King lives in Bangor and many of his stories are based on Bangor as well. --76.179.82.128 06:51, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

If there's a reputable source on this then by all means. Until then it's original research and speculation. --Thaddius 01:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned images

All those images I uploaded are slated for deletion unless they're used in an article sometime soon. If someone wants to display a few on the main page, it would back up the points made. Other than that, we'll lose all these images and I don't feel like uploading them again. --Thaddius 18:02, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know how to add a link to an image without displaying the image? So far all the images are linked by external link (even though the images are internal) so they don't register as being linked to anything, hence the 'these images are orphaned, and are slated for deletion' tags on the images. I'm trying to figure it out myself but if anyone knows, help would be much appreciated. --Thaddius 14:40, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind. I figured it out. Just so you all know though, you have to put a 'leading colon' before the image location like [[:image:example.jpg|insert name\description here]]. The pics are fixed for now but we'll see if the mod\bot consensus is that the images are violating fairuse. If that's the case 90% of the SH1 'influences' will have to be removed. --Thaddius 15:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, the images were slated for deletion three days ago so it looks like the images are safe. Does anyone think that I should continue finding and taking the images (I'll attempt to get SH2 3 and 4 images alter on)? Or have I abused fair use enough? --Thaddius 15:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Hopefully the voices for sourcing will be satisfied so you won't have to find any others for this page. Still, if you could get some gameplay images for the other games they might be useful in their respective articles. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 16:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Metal Gear Solid

The article says "The corpse is thought to resemble a character from the first Metal Gear Solid, another Konami game." What character? The only thing you can see of the corpse is a pair of legs in yellow pants. Who wears yellow pants in Metal Gear? Otacon? The cyber-ninja? I don't recall. Thedoorhinge 20:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

From what I've heard (and what was removed from the article) it is supposed to be the ArmsTech President, Kenneth Baker who is used as bait by Revolver Ocelot in the first game. Another portion that was removed contains reference to a silencer next to the corpse, that suggests the MGS connection. Here's and image of him, go back and check it out for us. It seems to be original research anyway. --Thaddius 23:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I checked. The legs on the corpse in Silent Hill 2 bear no particular resemblence to the legs in that drawing. Despite that, I could buy that it's a MGS reference, what with the silencer, and the lighter portion of the wall you have to break through like in MGS, but, to put it mildly, it's a stretch. Thedoorhinge 14:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Just so we're clear, it's in SH3, not 2. I don't mean to be picky about typos but I just want to make sure we're playing the same game.

As for it being a stretch, I completely agree. In fact I'll remove it if no one objects. I really don't know where that 'fact' came from. I don't feel like wading through edits on the SH3 page (it was on there before the 'big move') to find out. --Thaddius 13:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Yep I meant 3. Thedoorhinge 01:45, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pruning

I took the step of removing anything I personally felt was mere speculation, i also tagged for and removed a lot of the weasel words that were used in this article. No one ever reads the talk page before making edits but on the off chance; if you add a bit of trivia at least try and make it sound like you believe it to be true. Far too many uses of phrase like "may have", "possibly", "probably was", "might have been" etc. etc. Kejoxen 22:47, 11 March 2007 (UTC)