Talk:Simon Shaheen

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[edit] Citizenship

Is he a U.S. citizen? Badagnani 02:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] From Galilee to Haifa

How could he and his family move from Galilee to Haifa -- at age 2 (c.1957) -- when Palestinians were prevented from crossing the green line. Did they move there secretly? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.23.202.154 (talk) 20:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Isn't Tarshiha within Israel's borders? That would mean he was born an Israeli citizen, within the borders of Israel. Badagnani 03:28, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I think that contributor was confused by the location of the Galilee. The Galilee is not in the West Bank and it is therefore not beyond the Green Line. Or, perhaps, he is referring to the restrictions of movement imposed on Arabs in Israel under the Israeli military government that ruled over Arab areas in Israel from 1948 to 1966.--Kishkushim 20:39, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problem with bio

"Simon Shaheen (b. Tarshiha, northern Galilee, 1955) is a Palestinian-born oud and violin virtuoso and composer."

This is a very problematic opening for the biography. Tarshiha is in Israel's internationally recognized borders. It is not in the disputed Palestinian territories. To say that Shaheen is "Palestinian-born" is therefore incorrect. He was born an Israeli citizen in the state of Israel. Tarshiha is not beyond the "Green Line" (not in the West Bank). If Shaheen objects to being called an Israeli and Wikipedia intends to please the subjects of its entries, then this line could read "Simon Shaheen (b. Tarshiha, northern Galilee, 1955) is a Palestinian oud and violin virtuoso and composer born in Israel." Or: "Simon Shaheen (b. Tarshiha, northern Galilee, Israel, 1955) is a Palestinian oud and violin virtuoso and composer." We should be dealing with objective realities - namely the existence of an internationally recognized geographic entity called Israel - and not succumbing to political agendas (the denial of its existence).

Kishkushim 18:00, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe he self-identifies as Palestinian. You appear to be familiar with the naming and territorial dispute, and we do allow individuals to identify with their particular culture. For example, in the United States we have a place called the Navajo Nation which is a sovereign nation, though within the U.S. borders (and Navajos were made U.S. citizens in the early 20th century). So it can be complex. Let's first find out how he identifies his place of birth in his own bios (if Israel, then we can fix it), but I'm pretty sure he identifies as Palestinian, not an Israeli person. It should be noted that he often performs together with Jewish musicians, using music as a bridge between cultures, so is not a hard-liner politically. Badagnani 19:38, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I think this one, on first reading, looks good: "Simon Shaheen (b. Tarshiha, northern Galilee, Israel, 1955) is a Palestinian oud and violin virtuoso and composer." Badagnani 19:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, I checked his official bio and it does omit all mention of Israel, and stating that he's Palestinian (but not saying that he was born in Palestine, instead calling it "Galilee"). Badagnani 19:44, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I certainly do not think it is our place to deny anyone their right to identify themselves as belonging to one culture or another. This is why I did not omit the identification of Mr. Shaheen as a Palestinian. Many Arabs living in Israel identify themselves as Palestinians. However, the need for geographic accuracy dictates that we indicate that the village of Tarshiha is in Israel, within the 1948 borders recognized by the overwhelming majority of the international community. If he were born in Ramallah, Gaza City or East Jerusalem, it would be a different matter. In any case, thank you for looking up the official bio and for understanding where I'm coming from!--Kishkushim 20:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Check the changes I've just made and see if you can answer the questions at the top, thanks. Badagnani 20:43, 11 February 2007 (UTC)