Talk:St Helens, Merseyside
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It says here that St Helens is the largest town not to have a football team in the top four divisions. Are you sure that's right? What about York for starters? How big is St Helens? It always used to be a bit of trivia that Wakefield was the biggest city without a pro football team, before York dropped down.
- York is a City not a Town.
York is a city212.248.225.148 What about Warrington? Gs83 07:18, 3 January 2006 (UTC) The reference to which this discussion relates has been removed but Warrington town, as opposed to the Borough, is about the same size as St Helens.Placid.
- Warrington is far bigger than St.Helens. So are a lot of other towns with no football team. (St.Helens 136 sq. km. / Warrington 176 sq. km.)
Please note that the population of St Helens is not 178000. This is the population of the Metroplitan Borough which includes Newton-le-willows, Haydock, Rainford &c
- Most people I know from Newton-le-Willows, Haydock and Rainford would consider themselves proud residents of St Helens. It's a bit semantic but seems unfair for others to exclude tens of thousands of people who describe themselves as coming from St Helens, be it town or borough. Glennh70
- I'm from Haydock, not St.Helens.
People from afar relate more to Haydock than St.Helens because of it's famous racecourse.
The population figures, and the distinction,are from the ONS and are official. I think many people from Newton le Willows (and Rainford) would welcome the distinction. I have yet to meet anyone from NLW who would regard themselves from St Helens simpliciter. I can assure you that if the Council does not make the distinction its members and officers are reminded about it. There is nothing unfair about recognising that NlW has a proud and separate history ( I am not from NlW) There is definitely a difference between the Metro' Borough (prosperitas in excelsis) and the Town (ex terra lucem)Placid.
Indeed, a 'borough' is a collection of different districts, for administration purposes only.
The entire article on St. Helens needs attention. It is littered with spelling and grammar mistakes and is far too colloquial to be considered a true encyclopedic reference. Attention must also be paid to the personal opinions reflected in several parts. Gs83 07:18, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
I have attempted to clean this article up and, hopefully, it now has fewer errors and is more encyclopedic. Placid.
I have further attempted to the clean the article up. I have removed/replaced many opinions and colloquialisms and many references to business names, as they appeared colloquial. I have also fixed some poor spelling, grammar and wordiness. Hopefully the article flows much better now. I will attempt to add new content into the article in my next edit. Any thoughts? Do you think we should get more pictures in? Gs83 01:27, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I have reverted to an earlier page. Please note that, however much locals may dislike this, St Helens is in the Metropolitan County of Merseyside. It may still be in the County Palatine of Lancaster. There is some debate about this but there is no debate about the status of St Helens in the Merseyside. Please consult the Local Government Act 1972 and the LGA 1985.
And what does a young American administrator know about small English towns that gives him the right to argue against what is posted by those who have lived their entire life in said towns?
The following is totally correct: "It is a common misconception that that St. Helens is in the county of Merseyside, however Merseyside County Council and it's powers were devolved to local authorities in the 1980s, one of which is St Helens Council. Merseyside exists merely as an administrative district in the county of Lancashire."
HERE, HERE !
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- Incorrect. St Helens (and indeed Liverpool etc) are indeed no longer governed by the Merseyside County Council, abolished in 1986 but are still in the County of Merseyside which is a Lord Lieutenancy or "Ceremonial County". The 1986 changes did not abolish Merseyside, they just abolished the elected council and replaced its functions by committees formed by the Metropolitan Districts (eg Police, Fire). Merseyside also contains parts of historic Cheshire so is certainly not in any sense "an administrative district in the county of Lancashire".
Exile 13:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- 'Note that the LGA 1972 did not do anything to the historic Counties of Britain. It only abolished the administrative counties and county boroughs. The Government was (and still is) happy to confirm that the Counties themselves were unaffected...'
"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change." Source:(DoE Statement, 1st April 1974).
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- That depends on what you mean by the "historic counties" or "traditional boundaries". What most people consider the historic counties only date back to 1888 (and are really Adminsitrative Counties), the boundaries having been "tidied up" at various times in the 19th Century, to remove detached parts, Counties of Cities and "liberties" which had hitherto been considered outside the county structure. The DoE statement looks a little like "spin" in the tradition of "the pound in your pocket".
- Here is a line from Wikepedia 'History of Lancashire' ...............
'Lancashire was established as a county in 1182, making it one of the youngest of the historic counties of England, although there is evidence that the boundaries of the county were settled as early as 1100.'
............... 'the historic counties only date back to 1888'? My arse!
So St Helens is in (ceremonial county) Merseyside and (historic county) Lancashire. Adminstratively it is an independent unitary authority except for certain functions eg Police.
The situation is extremely confusing - postal codes and addresses come into the picture too. Government has been a bit loath to try to sort out the chaos (of its own making) for fear of upsetting someone (or everyone) so we are stuck with it.
Exile 13:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
In general there is far too much opinion re attitudes to Liverpudlians and Wiganers. There may be a place for such expressions but an encyclopedia is not the place for it. Wikipedia is subject to criticism and needs to be defended.
To the above posters, could you please remember to sign your comments. Thanks. Gs83 11:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Just thought it would be relevant to mention, I've lived in St. Helens all my life and have never been called a St Helenian or a Sintellener.
Can I say that Newton le Willows and Haydock are not suburbs of St.Helens. Both of them were in existance well before St.Helens was thought of. No, the people of those places don't regard themselves as living in St.Helens, simply because they don't.
[edit] The Loungs
I re-added The Loungs to the "Famous People" section, as they do in fact meet WP:MUSIC criteria.
A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ etc) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
- Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (excludes things like school newspapers, personal blogs, etc...).
I'm sure Poisened Electrick Head qualify for similar (and also the "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels..." one), but I don't have any verifiable information to hand at present, so they shall remain absent. -- Bobyllib 20:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
How about Gravy Train then (rock band)? I'm sure they're from Billinge or thereabouts. Certainly locals. Koncorde --68.83.47.220 03:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Nick McCabe, of The Verve came from Haydock, which is near St.Helens. Richard Ashcroft came from Billinge which is also near St.Helens.
- Richard Ashcroft was born in Billinge Hospital, which is in Wigan (not near St.Helens and has nothing to do with Billinge Chapel End.)
- Billinge hospital was in Wigan Metropolitan Borough, not Wigan. Also, despite it being called 'Billinge' hospital, it wasn't even 'in' Billinge.
[edit] Edit war in External Links
can we do something about this? it's just the same things over and over again. semi-protect? --Bobyllib 16:13, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Shut Up, You're Dead ! 80.192.242.187 20:39, 30 January 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.
I agree with Bobyllib. I don't know how to summon an administrator's attention but the user in question has reinserted the same promotional rubbish well over a dozen times. \ Fnarf999 \ talk \ contribs \ 16:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
- I've left him/her a note on his/her talk page about it. ... discospinster talk 17:30, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Agreed about the protection for the external links - BUT St Helens Chat is asserting that their site is 'The first original and most popular interactive St Helens site' when in fact it is not. It was not the first, it isn't the most popular, but now (because the page is protected) all visitors are led to believe that it is. (TruthGuy)
[edit] Gamble Institute
The building in St.Helens, which is referred to in the article as the Gamble building, is actually called the 'Gamble Institute'.
