Talk:Staffordshire Bull Terrier
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This article is basically lifted verbatim from the Burkes Backyard website. Probably a pretty good reference, but they should have been acknowledged.
This article seems to be mixing up the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and the Bull Terrier. It's the Bull Terrier that was developed by James Hinks according to what I've read so far. I will do some more reading on this though befre making any major changes. -- sannse (talk) 18:49, 5 May 2004 (UTC)
I was just coming here to type the same thing. See for example: history of staffordshire and bull terrier. Elf | Talk 19:26, 5 May 2004 (UTC)
I have read into this also quite extensively but i believe the staffe was derived from a version of the bull terrier, the bull terrier being the original "legitimate" breed of dog with the staffe evolving as a spin off, either way every article i read seems to contradict the next so this article seems a fair representation seing as it cites the bull terrier as the first dog of this type to be recognised by the kenel club.
- If you study the old paintings and drawings of dogs used for bull and bear baiting you'll find the modern day Staffordshire bull terrier to be a far closer match than the Bull terrier. I highly doubt that the staffie is a "spin off" of the bull terrier, more likely the other way around.
Woops I just stuffed this page up - umm can someone fix it thanks
No Mention of the Staffies lockjaw it is poorly written please can this be cleaned up
- Not sure what you're referring to by "lockjaw". I did a search and found this info (for the APBT but I suspect it applies to all BTs...)
- "The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any breed of dog. There is absolutely no evidence of the existence of any kind of 'locking mechanism' unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier."[1]
- There's more of that sort of thing out there; also comments that "lock jaw" just means that they have very strong jaws (don't know about comparison of strength to other dog breeds). So not much to add so far... Elf | Talk 22:56, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] never heard of jimmy Hinks in relation to the SBT
Hi there, I'm going to be adding a few new articles on the development and early history of the SBT. These articles will solely focus on the Uk where the breed originates. Any objections if I make a few alterations to the introduction of this article?? Seems rather incomplete and inaccurate at this stage. Cheers.
- Edit away. But is there any reason that there need to be "a few new articles"? I'm having trouble picturing anything other than additions to this same article in the History section--let alone more than one other article--even if it gets quite long. That would be fine--lots of long articles in Wikipedia. Elf | Talk 21:16, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello!
there were several holes in this write up i made some changes. I think the entire section about the BT should be deleted as it really has little bearing to the SBT. Cheers! Tony Avenson Thunderstruck! Staffordshire Bull Terriers
[edit] Experimenting with children and dogs?
Removed the following: "The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is known in Australia to have saved many children's lives. Children and these dogs are placed in a pen and left unattended. Anything from bugs to snakes are killed by the dogs, and along with anything that could be a hazard."
This makes it sound like studies have been conducted, putting snakes into pens with children to see if the dog would kill them haha. I'm guessing whoever wrote it meant there have been reports by the public of such events happening. Nevertheless the claim is strong, such that it should not be in the article until reports can be verified.
[edit] Neutral
This article is not written in the neutral point of view. Especally this passage-
"But visit that family at home and you’re likely to be met by a boisterous though very affectionate human-orientated dog who is happy to see you, loves nothing more than playing with the kids and will roll over if given the slightest opportunity for a tummy rub."
Come now, whoever wrote this was an strong dog lover but it shouldnt be on wikipedia. Jesus On Wheels 17:29, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Odd phrase in passage
The phrase "There is no doubt that Staffies are the safest and friendliest of the bull terrier breeds." is completely subjective and is impossible to prove. Should probably be removed.
Actually, it should not be removed, but rather the author should give statistics and sources supporting this. If one researches the breed online, there are numerous articles pointing out how there are no documented deadly attacks by Staffordshire Bull Terriers in North America. Also, in spite of erroneous assumptions to the contrary by many who are ignorant about the breed (those who lump it in with other "Pit Bulls" that have attacked people), Staffordshire Bull Terriers (not the same breed as the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier or the American Pit Bull Terrier) are not known for attacking humans. In fact, it has been bred into them not to attack people. It has also been bred into them to be particularly affectionate toward and protecive of children).
[edit] Get Your History Right
Please, the Bull-and-Terrier was bred for the purpose of dog fighting, while specimens may have existed pre-1835, it was purposefully bred only following the prohibition of bullbaiting. Therefore, the dog could not have served as a bull or lion baiter - though some records show it was placed against apes armed w/ clubs and against Donkey. And the Staffordshire Terrier is a "Bullterrier" not because it descends from terriers matched against bulls, but because Terriers were crossed to Bulldogs to create the prototype/ancestor of this breed. Get your facts straight, seriously, it looks despicable.
[edit] No Deadly Attacks by Staffordshire Bull Terriers
The article mentions how the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is often blamed for vicious attacks on people. This is quite unfortunate because it has been bred into the Staffie to never attack people. Even when this dog was a pit fighting breed back in the 1700's, owners would often carry injured Staffies home on the wagon right next to the baby. I have done quite a bit of research on this and there does not appear to have ever been a single deadly attack on humans by a Staffordshire Bull Terrier in North America. There have been many documented deadly attacks on humans by American Pit Bull Terriers (unscrupulous people have unfortunately bred many of those dogs for modern-day pit fighting, and as vicious guard dogs), and there have been 2 or 3 human deaths by American Staffordshire Terriers since the 1940's. Even the weenie dog (datschund) has killed 2 people in the past 60 years in North America. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier has killed exactly zero. The larger ones (mine is approx. 85 pounds with a 28-inch round neck) can look like vicious pit-bulls, and could easily scare off would-be burglars who don't know the difference. However, the dog would just as soon lick an intruder to death as to bite him. And, all the stories you hear about Staffies being affectionate toward children are true. In fact, it is downright bizarre and almost scary to watch how these dogs respond to children. It appears to be bred into them to be especially loving to kids, and they somehow just know the difference between kids and adults. I've owned many dogs in my lifetime, and in fact have several different breeds of dogs currently. As useless as Staffies seem to be as guard dogs (other than looking tough), I wouldn't trade my Staffies away for any other breed. You just have to make sure that the young ones have something to cut their teeth on or they might start thinking your furniture is a chew toy.
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- There are no 80lb Staffordshire Bull Terriers from any reputable breeding program. this is more than twice the size of a Stafford. Please refer to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier breed standard from ANY kennel club for more information. Your dog would appear to fit the standard for an American Pit Bull Terrier ( excellent breed of dog) American Stafforshire Terrier ( also excellent) or possibly a Stafford mixed with a very large breed of dog and therefore not true SBT. Hope this helps. Tony Avenson, Thunderstruck! Staffordshire Bull Terriers
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[edit] A news article from german Spiegel
The following article - http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,428158,00.html (german) - is on an incident where a Staffordshire Terrier has bitten an old lady to death. So they're childfriendly but kill off the elderly? Some kind of society rejuvenation progam perhaps? I don't feel capable of rewriting the Staffordshire Terrier wiki article, being a strong dog hater and incapable of keeping a NPOV - but I really think it should be done. Essentially it trys to persuade people to disregard the dangers emanating from a Kampfhund (german word for a dog bred for fighting), so it reads like propaganda.
Do you know the difference between American ST and the original SBT?! It's clear that you don't
What are the differences then? The one is a pet dog an the other nastily bytes people to death? Strikingly, both wikientries advertise their respective species as "friendly". As the species are closely related it might not be overly feasible to have them mentioned in different wikipedia articles - particularly if some of them defend "their" species as the one having to take the blame for the agressiveness of the others. Additionally I would suggest not using the word "Staffie" in an encyclopedia article, it makes the writers lack of npov all too obvious.
It seems silly to deny that any breed of dog can bite and harm humans, since most breeds contain dogs that have hurt or killed someone at some point. However, none of the other dog breed pages I have seen on wikipedia listed dog attacks perpetrated by that breed. Why should the Staffordshire Bull Terrier page be any different - I don't see why this page would discuss dog attacks by this breed if the other breed pages don't? Or do you think that all dog breed pages should list all attacks by that particular breed? Sounds like a big job to me.
I do agree that this page (like most dog breed pages) tends to be dominated by the pro-dog crowd. However, since these are the people that are most interested in and most knowledgeable about their particularl breed, I don't feel this is suprising. Just like the siamese cat pages tend to be written by people who like siamese cats, the dog pages will tend to be written by people who own and like each particular breed.
Incidentally, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (SBT) and the American Staffordshire Terrier (AST) are two distinctly different dog breeds. The SBT was developed in England from bull-terrier type dogs quite a while ago; whereas the AST was developed in America much more recently, from American Pitbull Terrier (APBT) ancestors. In appearance, the SBT tends to be smaller and stockier than the AST. Both were orginally bred to be friendly towards humans and aggressive towards other dogs. All three breeds (SBT, AST, APBT) are commonly termed 'pitbulls' in America, after their two original functions (fighting other dogs in a pit, and baiting bulls). However, in the UK, Australia and NZ, only the American Pitbull Terrier is considered a 'pitbull'. Just FYI, since you asked! - Rachel 23:06, 3 Oct 2006
VERY HAPPY SBT OWNER
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- I am a very satisfied SBT owner and I am sick and tired of pathetic non dog owners and ignorant people saying vile things about this fantastic breed of dog.
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How can anyoneBold text who has never had the pleasure of owning such a wonderful and loyal breed of dog critise them in this way. I 100% trust my dog around people and children. Dogs only behave bad when they are not properly handled by their owners,this is evident in any breed of dog not just solely the SBT.***
[edit] Breed Specific Legislation
Can't believe that this article neglected to mention that SBTs are banned or restricted in many parts of the world! It seems like a pretty important point to mention when discussing this breed, so I put a new section in the article. - Rachel 23:28, 3 Oct 2006
can u proceed to mention were they are banned because to my knowlegde they ar not banned ANYWHERE!! You are probably making a very common mistake made by so many Ignorant people confusing a pure breed SBT with the Pitt bull terrier!! Why are the SBT called nanny dogs???? think about it. Jo..
QUOTE.. The problem with the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act, despite the hard won amendment in 1997, continues to be the emphasis placed on the idea that a dog is dangerous because of its breed rather than its behaviour. It may not be palatable to some people, and certainly not the politicians like Kenneth Baker who rushed to introduce his conscience salving nonsense, that the breeds that have actually killed people in the UK over the past 50 years include a West Highland White Terrier, Golden Retriever and “Jack Russell”.
The popular press might have you believe that those breeds should therefore be banned and condemn the many thousands of healthy and well-adjusted examples of each of these breeds that live contentedly with children, the elderly and the lonely bringing comfort and companionship.
18/2/07
