Talk:Steve Prefontaine
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[edit] Greatest runner of all time, hands down
Umm why? No world records set or Olympic medals won. Sounds like he had some potential but that's about all really. Lisiate 23:43, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
- You didn't happen to read this line did you... "Following the University of Oregon he set his sights on the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal, setting American records in every race from 2000 to 10,000 meters." He set the standard for distance running in the U.S. in a time when it was completely unknown. sharpdust 01:43, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
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- Setting national records in a range of distances is impressive but surely not enough to make him "Greatest runner of all time, hands down." Compare that with Emil Zatopek for example; 5,000 10,000 and marathon golds at the same Olympics is far more impressive. Prefontaine was a good distance runner, maybe even a great one but he has no real claim to being the greatest. Lisiate 00:02, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
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- "He has no real claim to being the greatest"? I am not saying he is the greatest by any means, but to deny that he was a great distance runner as you do is absolutely asinine. Obviously have never seen his actual performance during the Munich Olympics. The movie "Prefontaine" does a good job at depicting this, but still, it would help if you've seen the actual race to know what is going on.
- Furthermore, to say that just because he didn't win the 5K and 10K medals at Munich means he isn't an impressive runner is utterly silly. Steve Prefontaine only raced in the 10K at the trials, although he could have easily qualified in the 5K, too -- but what would that have solved? He was aiming for the gold, nothing less. Unfortunately his dream did not come true, but it sure was one heck of a race if you've ever seen it.
- And you implying that his accomplishments are meaningless implies, to me, that you don't know much about running. Holding all of the American Records from 2K to 10K is absolutely AMAZING. There's nothing less that can be said of it! You name me another runner (...ever...) with that kind of range. I can't think of one at all. Enfestid 00:14, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
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- Sorry to be so late in replying Enfestid, have been busy with other things. I never saw Prefontaine run at Munich (too young) but the fact remains he didn't win. I'm sorry but American records aren't enough in my opinion to establish someone as the greatest runner ever. As for a runner with that kind of range, again look at Zatopek - 5k 10k and marathon golds at the same Olympics. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. Lisiate 03:07, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
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- So because Prefontaine did not win automatically negates every single accomplishment that he made in his entire racing career? I'm sorry, but that is rather silly in my book. Yes, he didn't win -- but he got fourth, which is still a darn good place. Is it a medal? No. Is it the gold? No. But you don't look at an athlete's career and say that one event defines them. It is a matter of events that define athletes, specifically their work ethics and will, to which Steve Prefontaine was second-to-none.
- As for your Zapotek remarks -- well, that's all fine and dandy, but how goes Emil Zapotek being a great runner change the fact that Pre was, too? And, 5K and 10K is much different than 2K to 10K. A 5K and 10K double does not necessarily show range, nor are they extremely different races. The 5K and 10K are quite often paired together for distance runners, in fact, so it is hardly "range" at all. His marathon gold in the same Olympics, however, is much more impressive. Yet, going off your opinion that careers are defined in a single moment, then how about Zapotek's failure in the 1956 Olympics? No one would define his career on that, just as no one would define Pre's on his failure in Munich. The fact that his life was taken away shortly thereafter doesn't help the situation, either, because we'll never know if he would have achieved gold in Montreal. It is unfair and hardly comparable to liken Prefontaine to someone who competed in numerous Olympics. Prefontaine was only beginning to peak.
- As you said, however, agree to disagree. I just wanted to get my last thoughts on the matter in. Enfestid 04:30, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
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Greatest runner of all time?? Did Prefontaine hold any world records, or just American records? Compare this to someone like Ron Clarke, who held 17 world records distances from 2 miles to 20,000m, and this makes this claim simply fanciful. Just because they don't make a movie about it, doesn't mean there aren't dozens of other athletes elsewhere achieving far greater things on stages much bigger than American track meets. Mike2680 21:43, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
- Pre was a great runner. Certainly one of the greatest in American history- but not in the world. There is no reasonable argument for this claim, as he never won an Olympic medal or set a worlds record. If your argument is that his dedication and effort was second to none- then look at Zatopek, who did famous 40x400 m repeats with as little as a 200 meter jog between them. He also did speed work in army boots as resistance training and spent 90% of his races with an expression of agony on his face. If you were to judge purely on talent, which I believe in this particular discussion is the way to go- Kenenisa Bekele is the greatest runner of all time. His 12:37 5000 m world record (about 44 seconds faster than Pre ever ran the event and well over a minute faster than Zatopek ever did)suggests that he could run a mile much faster than Pre ever did. His 10000 m record of 26:17 is unreal, two back to back 5000's 13 seconds faster than Pre ever ran one, and I hope to see him running the marathon some time in the future. User:AndyMarshall 18:23, November 29, 2006
[edit] Consider This
What makes a great runner is not based on the records they hold. Steve Prefontaine was not only an incredible athlete, setting American records in almost every running event on the track. He also understood that running was about more than talent or speed. It is about heart. He didn't want to run a way the strategic way - drafting behind the other runners and then out-sprinting them at the end. He felt that winning like that wasn't worth running in the first place. To Pre, the race was about the wind in his face, running fast, and being the best. Being the best not just at the end when he broke that tape. Being the best for the whole race. I would suggest to anyone who cannot understand how Pre can be the best runner of all time without a gold medal to his name to watch WITHOUT LIMITS again. It's only a movie about him and Pre is still inspiring. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jladsit (talk • contribs) 20:43, November 27, 2005.
- Hogwash. There is a long list of world-class middle distance runners, from Zatopek through Viren to the great runners of today, with whom Prefontaine has to compete in the hall of hame. Prefontaine was a very good runner who might have won medals had he lived, given that 24 is young for a distance runner. We don't know. My own hero of that time, Ian Stewart, who finished just ahead of him in 1972, and Lasse Viren who won the gold, were only 23. Viren won the gold again in 1976. Exile 15:50, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] MGB
I added what kind of car Pre was driving when he died. I have a source for the info (which I included) but I'm pretty sure I didn't cite it right. Sorry about that.Worldtravller 23:33, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
- I found the style guide for citing sources so I think I've fixed my citation correctly. Worldtravller 23:49, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pre's Death, second car (polygraph)
The article says that Luke Williams was identified as the driver of the car that a witness saw close to the accident that killed Pre. The article says "No charges were made against Williams because he passed a lie detector test (Eugene Register-Guard, May 26, 1985, p.5B)." I'm just confused because "lie detector tests" (actually called a polygraph) are inadmissible in court cases because they don't actually tell if a person is lying, they can tell if you are nervous, bu they aren't really "lie detectors," that's a nickname. There is a lot of controversy surrounding the use of polygraphs (I would never take one, because they are misleading and inaccurate, if you answer a question honestly but exhibit nervousness it could be regarded as a "lie" by the conductor) So how is a possible vehicular manslaughter let off because of a polygraph? There is a citation for a Eugene, OR newspaper, but I still think this guy Williams got off because of other, more legit reasons. I can't believe that a polygraph alone would clear someone. Although, it was the '70's so maybe people put more stock in polygraph test results. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.2.242.61 (talk • contribs) 07:20, April 11, 2006.
[edit] Pre
Can someone add to the article how his nickname "Pre" came to origin, how he got it and who gave it to him? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.122.208.157 (talk • contribs) 17:12, May 7, 2006.
- I'd imagine it's not very unusual. How does someone named Jonathan get the nickname "John"? It's just an abbreviation. --Liface 01:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Prefontaine Quote
Did Pre really say this? "How does a kid from Coos Bay, with one leg longer than the other win races? All my life people have been telling me, 'You're too small Pre', 'You're not fast enough Pre', 'Give up your foolish dream Steve'. But they forgot something, I HAVE TO WIN." Isn't that only from the movie? I don't recall ever reading him actually saying that. sharpdust 22:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
He said it. I can't offer an actual citation, but I read one of the many articles in Runner's World about him, and they talked about that quote. Maybe someone else can find it, but he for sure said it. 63.113.61.138 02:01, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] sitting and kicking
"He is known for his extremely aggressive racing style, disliking the tactic of sitting and kicking, and always believing in giving a full effort. Prefontaine was killed on May 30, 1975 at the age of 24 in a car accident." What is "the tactic of sitting and kicking"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.181.157.208 (talk • contribs) 16:53, August 4, 2006.
- Keeping a slow pace throughout the race and then giving it all in the last 10% of the race. Pre preferred to lead from the front and keep the same splits for each mile. --Liface 01:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] gopre.com - advertising with no real content?
I visited www.gopre.com It appears to be nothing more than a short blurb with a bunch of amazon links and advertisements. Why is it listed in external links? Seems like self-promotion to me. Anyone agree that this should be deleted? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.8.30.69 (talk • contribs) 17:30, August 25, 2006.
[edit] How the AAU dispute ruined the Olympics
This is my opinion, but this point of view is missing from all articles about Steve Prefontaine, Bill Bowerman, Avery Brundage, Nike, the AAU and the Olympic Games. Like it or not, Steve's winning case against the AAU set a precedent for the Olympics that inevitably led to several things, among which:
- The inclusion of professional basketball players as US team members
- The fierce competition for titles as a means to make large sums of money
- The sponsorship of players by corporations (notably Nike),
- The attack on Nancy Kerrigan by Tanya Harding, spurred on by lust for fame and money
The last item is admittedly a controversial statement. I believe Harding wouldn't have gotten as far if there were no financial rewards at the end of the journey. The sad part is, Americans under the Avery Brundage rules were 'pure athletes', and we constantly complained about having to compete against athletes from nations that sponsored their athletes in a manner we weren't allowed to. In spite of that, we had a lot of winners. The other sad part about it is Brundage's stand for amateurism was tainted by his support of the Nazi regime before WWII, and for his lack of recognition of the felled Israeli athletes in Munich. In this way Brundage's taint and Prefontaine's court case against the AAU destroyed the spirit of the Olympics. I would appreciate someone with knowledge adding this footnote to the above articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.82.9.83 (talk • contribs) 14:39, September 2, 2006.
[edit] Fact check
"Prefontaine ran a personal best time of 5:01 in the mile his freshman year." That is hardly spectacular is it? He would have nearly been lapped at the recent world standard under 17's meets, let alone the under 20's. Should this not read 4:01? Its been there so long I'm loath to change it without a source. --LiamE 10:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
- Definitely not 4:01. Although I don’t know for sure that his freshman time was 5:01, it might have been. The point of bringing this unspectacular time up is that he did not start out as a naturally gifted star athlete; he worked very hard to get to where he did.--Fizbin 16:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
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- Sorry I think I've misread it as his freshman year being the start of his university career, whereas the article is clearly talking about his high school years. My mistake. --LiamE 20:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
