Talk:Sweeney Todd
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Does anyone know which St Dunstan's church was involved?Harry Potter 23:24, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)
[edit] Did Sweeney Exist?
I am making major revisions to reflect the fact that Sweeney Todd was a fictional character. Arieh 14JUL2004
- Apparently, Sweeny Todd was NOT a fictional character. He was a real barber, who really had a shop on Fleet Street, and really killed upwards of a hundred people, then really baked them into meat pies. Beyond that, most of the fiction written about him takes many liberties about his personality, motives, and specifics of the crime, but the legend of Sweeny Todd is true. Also see "Sweeney Todd: The Real Story of the Demon Barber of Fleet Street" by Peter Haining (ISBN 1861055870)--TexasDex 03:57, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
Peter Haining's claims (and those of the rather piss poor researchers who read his book and treated it as gospel without doing any true research of their own) are considerable laughable by all legitimate historians. Hainingclaims to have found the guy in the Newgate Calendar as a real person, but these documents exist and have been checked and absolutely do not contain anything which would show that this was ever a real person. We owe it to ourselves to be better than that. DreamGuy 11:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
CourtTV's Online CrimeLibrary has enentire section on the factual man, Sweeny Todd
- There are valid arguments on both sides of this issue. To give just two: in support of his merely being a legend is the difficulty researchers have had in pinning down (and agreeing on) just who Sweeney was, while in support of there having been a real person is the peculiar insistance Sweeney has for invariably haunting Fleet Street - urban legends almost always occur "in these very woods" or "just down the road," not five time zones away. I have changed the article to reflect what I think we can all agree on, which is that Todd's actual existance is debated. --Badger151 06:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cockney Rhyming Slang
The Sweeney became part of cockney rhyming slang to refer to the police flying squad (Sweeney Todd - Flying Squad). A popular police series named The Sweeney about the Flying Squad was broadcast between 1975 - 1978 on British TV. Zik-Zak 19:39, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] 18th/19th century
Thank you for the correction (not yet permanently linkable) of my typo, in the immediately following edit, by User:Jrbray. I recall noticing someone's apparent assertion that still earlier sources had been folded in, but in fact i must have retyped that digit in the course of the markup i added. No one else should waste time checking (for fear of an unnamed source) when that date got added to the article! --Jerzy(t) 03:45, 2004 Nov 29 (UTC)
[edit] TS Eliot -- "Sweeney among the nightingales"
Hello. I remember that TS Eliot wrote a poem called "Sweeney among the nightingales". Was that a reference to the Sweeney Todd of the 19th c ? On rereading it (e.g., [1]) I don't see a clear link but maybe someone can definitely say there is or there isn't. Something to think about perhaps. Regards & happy editing, Wile E. Heresiarch 08:37, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Sweeney was a stock figure in several of Eliot's poems ("Sweeney Erect", "Sweeney Agonistes", etc. I think he may have even made it into a draft of "The Waste Land") and seems mainly to be a means of mocking the Irish as grossly physical and brutish. Some critics think Eliot "borrowed" him from the Buile Suibhne(The Madness of Sweeney) which was first published in English during Eliot's lifetime. But he doesn't seem to have much to do directly with Sweeney Todd, unless both can be traced to the Madness of Sweeney. - Nunh-huh 04:17, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Separate page for musical?
I, for one, think that the Sondheim show deserves its own page, on which far more that is presented here can be put forth - such as musical and dramatic analysis, etc...
[edit] outside the Bible
The edit summarized
- (deleted "outside the Bible" because cannibalism doesn't appear in the Bible)
is a pretty good edit with a lousy summary, just for the record: The PoV that the Bible means what says remains influential, so construing cannibalism as not "appear[ing]" in it is highly PoV since it says "Take, eat; this is my body" at Matt 26:26, RSV. (But indeed that doesn't seem to be about eating guests.)
--Jerzy•t 15:55, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Comment by 192.102.112.18 (moved from article)
<snip>
Here's the problem with Wikipedia and random people posting 'knowledge' as fact. Some urban legends have truth to them, albeit stories tend to get embellished as they are put upon the stage. There was a man named Sweeney Todd, who worked as a barber on Fleet Street, who did use a trap door and a straight razor to off his customers, and whose victims did sometimes end up in meat pies. Extensive research by British author Peter Haining has shown supporting evidence for this without a doubt. [Please see link[2]] . And think twice before citing anything from Wikipedia. And CITING SOURCES BACK TO WIKIPEDIA IS LAME.
</snip>
MightyWarrior 23:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Kids in what Movie doing Sweeney Todd musical?
I recently saw a movie where a couple of kids, against the wishes of their parents or someone, performed Sweeney Todd:the Musical in front of their class, I think. Can someone remind me what this movie was? Pretty well known cast from what I can recall. I just cant remember who.
- Might be Jersey Girl (2004 film) in which "God That's Good" is rehearsed on and off throughout the film and performed near its completion. And: Don't forget to sign your posts! -- RayBirks 14:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
- P.S. Just FYI, this bit of trivia is already noted at Sweeney Todd (musical) in the Performance History section. -- RayBirks 14:49, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Much appreciated RayBirks. I didn't think to look at the "musical" portion of the Sweeney Todd entry.
[edit] A 17th century precursor of Sweeney Todd
This whole entry needs rewriting to accommodate the discovery by the blogger Kalebeul of a 17th century precursor of Sweeney Todd. In particular the description around 1691 of a demon barber in Calais is clear evidence that Peter Haining's book is nonsense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.34.170.47 (talk) 20:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC).
[edit] Monty Python's Barber?
Was this the basis for the Bloody Barber lead in to Monty Python's Lumber Jack song in Flying Circus? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Maschwab (talk • contribs) 06:20, 27 December 2006 (UTC).
