Talk:The Scarlet Letter
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is part of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to narrative novels, novellas, novelettes and short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit one of the articles mentioned below, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the General Project Discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions. | ||
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. | ||
| Top | This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale. | ||
 |
This article was the Novels WikiProject Collaboration of the Month (January 2, 2007-February 1, 2007). For details on the improvements made to the article, see the history of past collaborations. | ||
|
Article Grading: |
|||
|
Tasks you can do:
|
|||
Contents |
[edit] the letter
As I recall, the movie (with Demi Moore) shows the letter to be "A", but the book doesn't actually say what the letter is. --ChadThomson 06:21, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
btw, why did someone delete my comment above comment? I've reinstated it. --chad 10:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
The letter is identified in the prologued entitled "The Custom-House" as the letter A. This is also affirmed in the very last sentence of the novel.
This rag of scarlet cloth,—for time, and wear, and a sacrilegious moth, had reduced it to little other than a rag,—on careful examination, assumed the shape of a letter. It was the capital letter A. By an accurate measurement, each limb proved to be precisely three inches and a quarter in length.
--BAW 12:03, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Also at the end of the second chapter it says; "And the letter A in scarlet, fantastically embroidered with gold thread, upon her bosom!" 172.215.128.168 11:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
"On the breast of her gown, in fine red cloth surrounded with an elaborate embroidery and fantastic flourishes of gold-thread, appeared the letter A."66.127.55.8 04:02, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I think what chad meant was that it never actually says that the letter a stands for "adultery". It says many times that it is the letter "A." FerralMoonrender 03:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Theme Statements
1. Guilt can destroy a person, body and soul.
2. True repentance must come from within.
3. Revenge destroys both the victim and the seeker.
4. One must have the courage to be true to oneself.
5. It is by recognizing and dealing with one's weaknessess that one grows stronger.
6. The choices one makes determines what he/she becomes.
7. Within each person exists the capacity for both good and evil.
8. One must accept responsibility for his/her actions or suffer the consequences.
[edit] merge suggestion
The Effects of Isolation in The Scarlet Letter should be merged into this article. There's alot in TSL that should be in this article, including the stuff on isolation, and all we have right now is a synopsis of the story. --Though Hester is punished for what she's done in front of the public, Arthur Dimesdale is tortured on the inside. I personally believe that he has to take on the much harsher form of punishment. He isn't able to tell anyone about it because he is the priest and he is supposed to be "godly". Spangineer 16:07, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Personal comments
Here's my take on it (sources noted):
In The Scarlet Letter Hawthorne’s character Arthur Dimmesdale descends from his priestly celibacy into immorality through his elicit love affair with Hester Prynne. Hester refuses to give the name of her lover up and through her secrecy the descent of Dimmesadele begins. Although in the book Hester is the only one convicted of this crime, due to her inability to hide her pregnancy; Dimmesdale constantly condemns himself. Throughout the years after the discovery of Hester’s affair, the priest continues to spiral downwards into ultimate guilt-filled depression. He continues to grow ill and with the help of Roger Chillingworth continues to be haunted by his sin. His own lashings only contribute to this deterioration. A victim of love and human weakness, the priest loses his life to shame. Dimmesdale’s repentance and suffering make him the ultimate tragic hero. His actions condemned by society and his faith, Dimmesdale tries to receive an equal punishment, one as sever as his lovers, through his own remedies. Yet his efforts prove worthless and even destructive. His only door out is confession. Through his confession at the end of the novel, on the scaffolding, Dimmesdale’s grief is released and his supreme satisfaction allows the ultimate release; death. Dimmesdale’s affair was truly and act of love, yet the strict Puritan society in which he lives in and the rules in which he lives by did not allow him to openly express his sin without fear of total reprimand and disapproval of the people. His hidden sin presses upon his back, and the weight of his pain is too much. In facing his responsibility and confessing, it is easy to see Dimmesadle as the tragic hero of Hawthorne’s The Scarlet letter. Bruce Granger states that “even though Arthur Dimmesdale does not move down center until late in the action, The Scarlet Letter is finally his story and, what is more important, that he is a tragic hero… Hawthorne's allegorical romance centers on a good man's struggle with and eventual victory over the guilt he experiences after committing lechery.” (Granger, 1). Kenneth Pimple agrees; “Dimmesdale is caught in a dilemma: he values both his social face and his immortal soul, but he cannot save one without losing the other. His inner torment springs from this dilemma, and his effort to serve two masters leads him into continual doubletalk and makes his life an ongoing deception. His dual values split speaking in twain and slowly tear him apart.” (Pimple, 12). Dimmesdale “was halting, and wavering, and becoming more and more perplexed and worn down with woe, because he had violated the dignity of his position, and had broken a law which his education had made more prominent than any law in his own soul.” (Loring, 2) states George B. Loring. In justification to Lorings’ statement that Dimmesdale had violated the law which was most prominently taught and highly valued; Richard H. Fogle states that “The Puritan code is arrogant, inflexible, (and) over righteous.” (Fogle, 3) “They are ‘a People amongst whom religion and law are almost identical’.” (Fogle, 3) Dimmesdale, therefore, not only felt that through his confession he would be letting down his Lord, he would also be debasing and contradicting everything he had been told to live for. (Fogle, 3) While Dimmesdale does not initially admit to his sin “he knows himself to be a sinner and never mistakes penance done on earth for penitence. Like all men tragically great he sees with unflinching honesty the distance separating his ideal from his actual self and, seeing this, tries to bridge the gap.” (Granger,). His piety and desire for forgiveness doe not make him the tragic hero of The Scarlet Letter. The eventual outcome, his eventual confession make him tragic; his immediate death because of the relief of “letting go” makes him tragic. That fact that after finally coming all the way, after admitting and coming out, and being a hero, he dies.(Granger, 3) “Dimmesdale's confession is the act of a man who is tragically great.” (Granger,) Just as Granger states, “Arthur Dimmesdale is a tragic hero. Tragedy…arises from the tension between illusion and reality--illusion meaning the there and then, reality the here and now; illusion meaning the ideal and reality the actual conception one has of himself. The quality of the illusion matters greatly, the noblest being man's aspiration to free himself from his particular time and place; the aspiration, in Christian terms, to return to that state of bliss in which he existed before the fall. But here a dilemma arises: all men require illusion to bring order out of the chaos of the present, but if a man persists in hiding behind his illusion he is incapacitated for meaningful action. Ethically meaningful, that is to say tragic, action is possible only when a man, guided by this noblest of illusions, steps out from behind it and, fronting the terrors of the here and now, acts in obedience to a secret impulse of his character.” (Granger, 3). Marius Bewley states that “the essence of Dimmesdale’s sin is concealment” (Bewley, 2). In order to lift the pressure of this sin Dimmesdale must rid himself of this concealment (Bewley, 3). He “must now recognize and deal with previously hidden, subversive, and disobedient part of himself.” (Baym, 2) according to Nina Bayam. In doing so the ability to see Dimmesdale as a tragic hero is easy. While the other characters, like Hester, also plays the game of adultery, Dimmesdale’s confession remains most pure. He openly admits to his sin, and in doing so, comes form his allusion into reality. (Granger, 5). Dimmesdale’s final public confession proves this heroic tragedy; “Dinnesdale goes to his early grave humbled and penitent, “ unlike Hester who follows him to hers many years later and apparently unrepentant still. (Granger, 4). Hawthorne tells us that although “one tombstone served for both,” there was “a space between, as if the dust of the dust of the two sleepers had no right to mingle.” (Hawthorne, ) In the end this holly sinner steps out form behind his lies and deception, even against the grain of the Puritan society, in order to actually become the pious person he had fooled everyone into believing he was. Trapped in society’s grasp, filled with remorse and tossed about by the harsh sea of sin; Dinnesdale pushes through with honesty and became the tragic hero of Hawthorne’s The Scarlet Letter.
Bewley, Marius . Nineteenth Century Literature Volume 10. Detroit: Gale Research, 1989.
Baym, Nina. Nineteenth Century Literature Volume 10. Detroit: Gale Research, 1989.
Fogle, Richard. Nineteenth Century Literature Volume 10. Detroit: Gale Research, 1989.
Hawthorne, Nathaniel. The Scarlet Letter. New York: Bantam Dell, 2003.
Granger, Bruce. Nineteenth-Century Fiction Volume 19. : 1964.
Loring, George. Massachusetts Quarterly Review Volume 3. : 1850. Pimple, Kenneth . Studies in the novel Volume 25. : University of North Texas, 1993.
[edit] Criticism
Might I suggest adding Criticism:
This book sucks.
this book is good if you can follow the moral of the story, between innocence and selishness, yet you still may need cliff notes
heyyyy ; )
Some have suggested that this book is far too descriptive, to the point that the words loose meaning, and the reader is desensitized to the message that the author is trying to convey. This also causes the book to lose pace, and turn off readers to reading Hathorne's work entirely. Which is somewhat a pity, considering Hathorne was quite the author in writing short stories, and poems. Perhaps he felt he needed to write a book on the subject because it was personal, however, many feel it is a short story with the length and pace of a great tome.
Hey back
Hawthorne's works really are good, but i did find that this book did use too many words when just 1 or 2 would have been sufficient.
- Methinks that's more a result of Romantic style than it is his individual word choice. The excess of words can be found in other books of that era, like Frankenstein (particularly Percy's edit) --MaskedSheik 02:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Contrary to what some believe, this is a good book, I think it is fine in it's methods of descriptions, though I will agree that at times you do get bored with it. Then again, every book has it's less interesting parts. If you like to figure out symbolism or you like to see how people react in certain situations, psychology, it is interesting. Or you might read it due to the simple fact that it is required for school.
Irrelevant of whether you guys think that this book is good or not, the Criticism section needs references. Perhaps including articles of literary critics, or some other documented criticism of the novel? Just saying "this is a good book" doesn't negate the need for such a section, and saying "Some have suggested" is bordering on weasel words. Let's use actual citations, not our own opinions.
Although I personally agree that this book sucks, I agree with the comment above. If the article contains any opinions (which is debateable whether it should), they must (a) be balanced, and (b) be from credible sources. Please see Wikipedia:Describing points of view and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Might I also suggest that we sign our comments using four tildes (~~~~). Thanks. FerralMoonrender 03:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Need Help
hey Im not sure if anybody reads this but i kinda need some help. Does anyone know where I can find notes from Nathaniel Hawthorne about how he feels for the book or anything of that nature. Or even if a critic wrote something. Please help if you know anything. You can email me at yngcandy@hotmail,com.
Thank You
Candy
[edit] what?
"It is noteworthy that hester means "hidden" in Hebrew -- this word is associated with feminine modesty and hiddeness, virtues that Hester is shown to possess despite her adulterous affair."
- Do we have a citation for this because when I tried to look it up I kept getting that it meant "star" instead. Silverthorn 10:34, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Vandalism
The user before me (72.128.92.167 ) replaced the entire article with the words "The Scarlet Letter sucks, do not read it." I do not know how to report this as vandalism, but fixed it. Someone needs to block this user
[edit] Number Three?
The recent addition of the number three as a symbol seems to me a fair stretch. Young Pearl, the rosebush, the letter itself, and the forest are central symbols of the book, and are widely discussed and explored in literature classes all over America; the use of the number three, which is one of the most common numbers around for a variety of reasons, is at best an echo of a device. I find one or two non-notable references to this theory on a light web search, but nothing that suggests it should be included as a dominant symbolic theme of the novel. Unless there's a solid cite presented soon (per the Wikipedia:V verification rules), I'll remove it. Also, the letter does not measure three inches; it's three and a quarter, exactly. - Corporal Tunnel 06:16, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Per no response here, I have commented out that section. - Corporal Tunnel 14:46, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I need some SERIOUS HELP with this book... I need help with these questions: -What did the peope of this time period (1850's) believe about sin, morality, illegitimacy, guilt, punishment, crime, evil, forgiveness, revenge, and justice? -What Philosophy was developed? ETC
My E-mail is:
MiSsKiTTieKat27@aim.com I'll be on it right now to check if any of you send me something..
Thanks
[edit] Films based in etc
These categories "Films set in Massachusetts | Films shot in Vancouver" are interesting but give no indication as to which film adaptations these apply to. Can someone amend the adaptation text to give some idea to which these categories apply or better still develop articles for the films themselves and the categories can be moved to those articles. Thanks :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 09:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
-
- I think those categories are irrelevant as this article is for the novel. At least one article exists for one of the film adaptations (The Scarlet Letter (film), so others are welcome to be created as well. I've removed the film-related categories. Midnightdreary 23:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Erin?
Who is 'erin', do you mean hester??
- It's either a weird error or vandalism; it has been corrected. (By the way, please sign your posts by placing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your comments). Emmett5 22:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
-
- "Erin Crocker" or some variation shows up repeatedly throughout. I'd guess vandalism, if anyone wants to make the adjustments. Midnightdreary 23:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Trivia
The Trivia section, which I removed, said
- Erin means "hidden" in Hebrew -- this word is associated with feminine modesty and hiddeness, virtues that Erin is shown to possess despite her adulterous affair.
If this is true for the actual main character's name, "Hester," I would appreciate it if someone would re-insert it with the appropriate change. Thank you! Emmett5 22:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Explanation of the novel's title
This subsection currently reads: "The title refers to a cloth letter that the governor forces Crocker to wear sewn into her clothing to indicate her shame, the letter "A" indicating adulteress. Also, you look at the title closely, it is called The Scarlet Letter. Later we find out that Dimmesdale creates the letter A on his chest by whipping himself. That creates a scar on his chest. The first four letters of the word "scarlet" is scar and Dimmesdale has a scar on his chest. The phrase "Scarlet Letter" has come to have the metaphorical meaning of a mark of shame that an individual is forced to wear."
Forget about the spoiler that's stuck in there... Is this section really necessary? If so, would it make more sense after the plot summary? Just some suggestions. Midnightdreary 23:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
- While we're here, I'm also noticing that there are two sections discussing the introduction and the customs house. Can they be merged? Midnightdreary 23:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Missing Themes
Someone needs to add isolation resulting from sin to the themes section. Theleap59 18:56, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
