User talk:Thryduulf/Geonamesongs

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I suggest we have the discussions on how to arrange and format this new form of the geo-name song list on this talk page. This will give us the room to have many sections on specific topics, like multiple place names, street grouping and order, non-English wiki links, etc., without cluttering up the original list's talk page. I recommend restating each point made in Links to places? and prototype on that talk page here in its own section, so anyone joining the discussion later doesn't have to pop back and forth between the two pages to see what we're talkin about. I leave it to Thryduulf to start, as it's his page. — Jeff Q 16:22, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Note that I have moved the comments from Talk:List of songs whose title includes geographical names#Prototype. To organise them into sections it has been necessary to move some comments around. I have tried to maintain atribution, but I may not have been 100% successful in all cases. If any comment doesn't have a clear author, the chances are that it is mine, but if you see one of yours not attributed to anyone, or attributed wrongly, please correct it! The original atribution and order are preserved in the history of the source talk page Thryduulf 17:40, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

note that although the creation of this prototype has necessitated my taking many executive decissions, none of them are absolute and all are open to discussion. Although the prototype and this talk page are in my user space other people are not prevented from editing or contributing to it. Thryduulf 20:22, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Sections of the prototype completed 2 General comments on the page 3 Street names / Addresses 3.1 Sorting of Street names / Addresses 3.2 Specific Street names / Addressess 3.3 Streets with articles 4 Multiple places with the same name 4.1 Order of multiple places with the same name 4.1.1 Generic or Specific sorting of multiple places with the same name 5 Multiple names for the same place 6 Non-English songs 6.1 Place name issues (Dutch songs) 7 Empty sections 8 Assumptions re specific location(s) / lack of disambig pages 8.1 North / East / South / West places 9 Questions regarding individual songs 9.1 Questions regarding individual Dutch songs 10 Questions regarding sorting of River X, Mount Y, etc. 11 Page length 12 Instructions to users 13 Adoption of the prototype 14 Objections and Suggestions 15 Going live 16 English songs are live 17 Reconstruction section Dutch lyrics

[edit] Sections of the prototype completed

• Thryduulf: English; Dutch (A, E-G); Dutch Addresses (A)

if you do any sections, add your name here

• -DePiep 19:40, 31 May 2005 (UTC) Dutch A-Z; completed from current nl-list.

[edit] General comments on the page

Thryduulf, it looks good - although it's going to make for an extremely long page. (I also noticed that the song "From Auckland to The Bluff" is listed under Auckland but not under Bluff (yes, it's a town in New Zealand, commonly known by Kiwis as The Bluff), which I will remedy). Grutness|^hello? 03:54, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I also agree that this looks pretty good — better than I expected, in fact. I think we should have a full mockup of this article in the suggested format, in order to adequately evaluate it (much like I did for the TOC issue). Thryduulf, can you do this in the near future? I've been pressed for time lately, but I might be able to help (or even do it completely, if necessary). — Jeff Q 09:56, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)Jeff Q 09:56, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Street names / Addresses

• The 0-9 group are all street names. Only a very few streets have articles, and I don't know which cities/towns the streets referred to are in anyway (just think how many places have a 17th Street or Riverside Avenue. So far I've just bodged this, but it will need work.

• I would suggest that addresses (that don't also include a true geographical name) all go under a single, sorted heading, as shown in Thryduulf's example. (I'd call it "Addresses" rather than "Streets" to maximize inclusion.) This would eliminate the oddball 0-9 sections and prevent an unnecessary increase of the page length. It also provides an opportunity for a spinoff list, List of songs whose title includes addresses, in case it's decided down the road to reduce the scope of this list for whatever reason. Jeff Q 09:56, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• I've been moving alphabetical street names (e.g. Baker Street) to this section, and split it into 0-9 and A-Z (although this latter may need further subdivision, if it does I suggest a ToC section is made). Thryduulf

[edit] Sorting of Street names / Addresses

• Would it not be better to sort the 0-9 group numerically rather than alphabetically by the street name, e.g. 157 Riverside Avenue currently comes before 17th Street. Thryduulf

[edit] Specific Street names / Addressess

• Broadway. I have left this in the main section, linked to Broadway theatre as the theatre district is what the songs refer to. Thryduulf
• Sunset Strip. A skim read of the article suggests it is more than just a street, so I've left it in the main section Thryduulf 21:00, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Streets with articles

• Some streets (e.g. Broadway and Baker Street have articles of their own. Should we link to these? If so, how? Thryduulf

[edit] Multiple places with the same name

• There are two options for this as I see it:
  • Link to the disambiguation page only (e.g. like I've done for Abilene).
  • Link to each place separately (e.g. like I've done for America). This often requires knowing the song, and in some cases is either just hinted, extrapolated from the context of the lyrics or uknowable. Linking to the disambig page will still be necessary in these cases, however I prefer it as it does give more information. Thryduulf

• I like both the disambiguation page and the multiple headings for different places with the same name. Which to use would depend on what articles exist and how specific the songs are. It shouldn't be too confusing as long as we remember to look at the results from the point of view of someone looking for a place name (i.e., the link should always go to something that they might expect, based on the text of the heading). Jeff Q 09:56, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC) :* I look forward to experimenting with stuff like "New York", which could be grouped into a single "New York City", including all variations, and sorting like everyone keeps trying to do. Jeff Q 09:56, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• for New York I am going to do: New York (city), New York (US state), New York (Generic or Unknown). I doubt we have any songs about New York (Lincolnshire), New York (North Yorkshire) or New York (Tyne and Wear), but if we do then we can put them in in whatever order we agree to. Thryduulf 18:11, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• For multiple places with the same name, I'm going with the format I used for America in the original section. Thryduulf
• If there are a lot of songs referring generically to a place, it will probably be best to split the (Generic or Unknown) section.Thryduulf

[edit] Order of multiple places with the same name

• I propose that we standardise on a format for the order of these. I have sorted them Alphabetically, with the (Generic or Unknown) section at the end. In cases where the (Generic) and (Unknown) sections are split, I suggest (Generic) should come after the specific places and (Unknown) after that. Would these be better at the start? Thryduulf 18:09, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Should the order be "Mexico (country) -> Mexico City -> Mexico (Generic or Unknown)" or "Mexico (country) -> Mexico (Generic or Unknown) -> Mexico City"? Thryduulf 16:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Generic or Specific sorting of multiple places with the same name

• Should the South America songs be sorted under S or under the America (South America) in the A group? Or should they be duplicated? I think its important that we use consistency for all issues of this type. Thryduulf 20:31, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • currently I've left the South America song under S only. Thryduulf 20:31, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Multiple names for the same place

• What do we do for places that have more than one name?
• Where one is an abbreviation of the other, I suggest we follow the general Wikipedia policy and have one entry under the non-abbreviated name. (e.g. L.A. under Los Angeles).Thryduulf 16:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • If the names are very different, e.g. Leningrad and St Petersburg we should probably have separate sections, even though the former redirects to the latter. Thryduulf 16:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • For spelling differences I've used the format Marrakech / Marrakesh Thryduulf 16:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Should Warszawa be in the same group as Warsaw (if we had any other songs about Warsaw) given they are the same place, or different? Those aren't very different in the English language, but compare Swansea and Abertawe. Should the spelling difference format be used? Thryduulf 16:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Should we keep USSR separate from Soviet Union or should they have only one section? If one section, which should we keep? Thryduulf 17:15, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Non-English songs

• Do we link to the article on the English wikipedia or the wikipedia of the language the song is in?
• Do we do both (e.g. Pontypridd / cy:Pontypridd or Sweden / sv:Sverige)? Which language comes first (English or the language the song is in)? Thryduulf
  • As to the language question, my vote would be to link to En:wiki first, with a secondary link to the separate language wikis. Afeter all, this is the english Wikipedia, so internal links should come first. Similarly if, say, the Swedish Wikipedia had an equivalent page, I'd expect their Sv:Wiki links to be first. Grutness|^hello? 03:54, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• I strongly urge linking only to en:Wikipedia articles. By definition, en:Wikipedia users are expected to know only English (although many will know other languages, of course), so links to other Wikis might serve to confuse. The proper place for a link to a native-language Wiki is within the target en:Wikipedia article, and indeed many such articles have these links already.Jeff Q 09:56, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• I definately agree for English language songs, but what about for foreign language songs, particularly where the name is not the same as in English (e.g. we have a Swedish language song about Sweden, the title of which is Sverige)? Thryduulf 13:07, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• for the moment I'm using a the format:

*Aaigem  {nl:Aaigem}
** "Aaigem" by Jan de Wilde

This is because I need to do something, and its easier to remove links than add them. Thryduulf 13:43, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Place name issues (Dutch songs)

• The english Aalst article refers only to one place, but the Dutch nl:Aalst is a dismabiguation page. I've linked to the Aalst in Belgium on both languages, as that is obviously the main place (and none of the others have articles on the Dutch wp). Thryduulf 13:54, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Antwarpe: I'm having trouble working out if this is the same place as Antwerpe {nl:antwerpen} or not. I've included as if it is for now. Thryduulf 16:25, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Empty sections

• Should we have empty sections? I can think of two occasions where they are potentially useful:
  • Where we have a section for one specific place of that name, an empty (Generic or Unknown) section might be useful. e.g. we have a song about Buckingham Palace but not about any of the myriad places called Buckingham
  • Where we don't have songs about a very significant location, but we do have songs about other locations with that name. e.g. we have songs about North America but not (yet) Central America. Thryduulf

[edit] Assumptions re specific location(s) / lack of disambig pages

(if you can think of a better title for this section, please implement it!)

• California. I've assumed that all the songs are referring to the US State rathern than any of the other similarly named places
• Chicago. Similarly to above I've assumed the songs all refer to the city in Illinois.
• "Born in East L.A." by Cheech & Chong: I've linked this to East Los Angeles, California (rather than East Los Angeles (region)) as the East L.A. redirect leads there. Both link to the other, but there isn't a neutral disambiguation page for the two. Thryduulf
• I have assumed that Harlem refers to the neighbourhood of Manhatten. Thryduulf 21:08, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• I have assumed that Havana refers to the capital city of Cuba Thryduulf 21:08, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Hawaii - As there is no disambig page, I have assumed that the references are to the state not the island or the archipeligo. Thryduulf 21:08, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Iowa - I have assumed the references are to the US State, not any of the other locations called IowaThryduulf 10:26, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Jamaica - I've assumed the songs are about the country.Thryduulf 10:26, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Jerusalem - I've assumed the songs are about the city that is currently the capital of Isreal.Thryduulf 10:26, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Kalamazoo is the name of both a city and county in Michigan. There is no disambig page and so I have assumed the city.Thryduulf 10:26, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Kentucky - I have assumed the songs are about the state, not the river Thryduulf 16:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Crater Lake/Crater lake. I've assumed that the song referrs to the specific lake in Oregon, rather than the general geological feature Thryduulf
• Mississippi & Missouri. There is no disambigs between the states and rivers, and so I have assumed all the songs are about the latter as there are none whose title implies the state but there are ones that imply the river. 16:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Nevada, California. I have assumed this relates to Nevada City, California rather than Nevada County, California. The bolding of both suggests it is not referring to the two states separately. Thryduulf 20:15, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• New England: I beleive the Billy Bragg/Kirsty MacColl song is about a generic New England (but I'm not 100% certain) so I've put this in the (Generic or Unknown) section. The others I've assumed refer to the region in NE USA. Thryduulf 18:05, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Nutbush: There is no article or redirect or disambig for Nutbush (as in Nutbush City Limits)! Google searches suggest there is a Nutbush, Tennessee (the location referenced in the song) and I'd be amazed if there weren't other places called Nutbush in the world. Thryduulf 18:32, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC) --- Well, I have changed that situation for Nutbush, there are not only other places called Nutbush, but also a Line dance called "The Nutbush". doxTxob
• I've moved the two Vegas songs to the Las Vegas section. Thryduulf 17:35, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] North / East / South / West places

• South Nashville. There is no specific place called South Nashville as far as I can tell from a wp search, so I've adjusted the formating and placed it in the Nashvile (Generic or Unknown) section. Thryduulf 21:05, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• There is no WP article for West Nashville. It gets plenty of google hits with that capitalisation, and so I've left it in its alphabetical place, but linked it to Nashville, Tennessee. Thryduulf 20:58, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Similarly there is no article for West Savannah, a google search emlinating hits for the songs returns results only with the capitalisation as west Savannah. As such I've moved it to the Savannah, Georgia section and de-bolded the west section. Thryduulf 20:58, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Western New York has no separate WP article, but it gains lots of hits. For the moment I've left it in the W section, linked to New York. Thryduulf 21:03, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Questions regarding individual songs

• City of New Orleans. Is this about the passenger train or the city in Louisiana? I've assumed the latter and moved it to the releveant section in the prototype (adjusting the formating apropriately). I've not done anything on the live version. Thryduulf

It is about the passenger train.Shsilver 15:47, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

• "Les lacs du Connemara" by Michel Sardou: Is this song in English or does it belong in another language section? Thryduulf
• "Little Egypt" by The Coasters. I've left this as it is, as the sole entry for Egypt. However there is a Little Egypt (region) in southern Illinois. If it referrs to this it should be moved. Thryduulf
• Is Malibu Beach a separate place to Malibu? The former doesn't have an article, the Malibu article mentions several beaches, but not one called Malibu Beach. For now I've left the formating as it is and inlcuded it with the other Malibu songs. Thryduulf 16:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • I've done the same with Paekakariki Beach Thryduulf 21:47, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • And with Rockway Beach Thryduulf 16:29, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• "Neuköln" [sic] by David Bowie: This is obviously not the spelling of the place name (the only two full text search results are the album songs page and this list). What is the name of the place? Thryduulf 20:09, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC) --- The name is Neukölln, which is a borrogh of Berlin, Germany. doxTxob
• Is Saint Tropez the same as San Tropez? The latter is the name of the song, the former is the one that has the article. I've assumed the latter is just a varient spelling of the former. Please correct this if I am wrong.
• Does "Hotel Yorba" by the White Stripes refer to Yorba Linda, California? I have assumed it does based on all instances of Yorba on a google search of en are about that place. Thryduulf 13:28, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Questions regarding individual Dutch songs

• Annelies uit Sas van Gent. Originally the bolding was on the first word. From my very very limited knowledge of Dutch, the nl:wp and [babel.altavista.com] I think that the place name is actually Gent. I will move it to the G section and ajust the formatting correctly. Thryduulf 16:19, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• "Bar Tropical" by Johan Verminnen: This seems a very generic location, it doesn't have any article on nl or en. Should we keep it? Thryduulf 21:34, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Sas van Gent is a place in The Netherlands (not Belgium, as Gent is; original meaning: the lock of the canal from Gent to say Terneuzen in the NL-province Zeeland). So I'l put it under -S-. -DePiep 11:45, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Questions regarding sorting of River X, Mount Y, etc.

• Should the River Mersey be in the M or R sections? (I've left it in the M section for now). Thryduulf 16:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• The song "Kilimanjaro" referrs to Mount Kilimanjaro. It was in the K section, but I've moved it to the M section. Any comments? Thryduulf 10:29, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • I'd say: as you did with the river Mersey one line above! Only if river, moutain, etc. is part of the name, and not an noun (name-of-sort, we'd not write with capital). And even then: let's not include (bold) 'National Park Yosemite', just 'Yosemite'. I expect to find that under Y. Of course, it is in the title so no unclarity for the reader. My bottom line is: Do bolding & sorting on the specified name first. The rest is detailing.
    • That make sense. I've moved Mount Kilimanjaro back to the K section. Thryduulf 13:37, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
      • Thanks. I used your sence ;-). -DePiep 11:35, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page length

The only solution I can think of to the page length is to split it, perhaps to

• /English A-English M
• /English N-English Z
• /Dutch
• /Other languages

I'd propose still keeping one ToC but changing links apropriately, so that the English R ToC entry on the Enlgish A-English M page linked to [[List of songs whose title includes geographical names/English N-English Z#English R|R]]. Thryduulf 10:08, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Instructions to users

• I've added a couple of sentences at the top of the page regarding the linking policy:

"Please do not disambiguate the links on this page. If you are certain which specific place the song is about, add or move it to the apropriate section (create it if it doesn't exist). If you are not sure then it belongs in the Generic or Unknown section."

"If you think a song is in the wrong specific section, move it if you are sure you are correct, otherwise make a note on the talk page." Thryduulf

[edit] Adoption of the prototype

• This prototype is based on a static copy of the 20:50, 1 Feb 2005 revision. This means that almost all entries made since then (I've added a couple to both) will not appear on the prototype, and will need to be added in should this reworking be adopted. Thryduulf 10:33, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• If we do choose to adpot this layout, then we will almost certainly need to copy the version here over the live and add the recently added songs to the list. To redo everthing that I've done here on the live is a solid week's work non-stop (I've been working on this for nearly a month on and off). I suppose just copying the sections would be less work, and perhaps a bot could be tasked with increasing the bullet depth as otherwise its repetetive grunt work. Thryduulf 10:33, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Objections and Suggestions

I'm sorry for joining only now, but I'm picking up the discussion. My experience is this:

• In general: The original list is a 'horror' to use (both search and update). Slow, and subdivided into multiple dimensions, aspects & splicings. It is not easy to navigate to songs about a single place (say my birthplace). And even more: this labyrinth does not invite me to add a song. It will allways end up in the wrong place. The notes on naming & sorting is quite long already, so that says it. I must be rigorus:
  • 1 Splice into different lists per language of the songs. Why not? Dutch and Welsh songs?: via a 'See Also'-link. (btw, I copied the Dutch section into my native nl-wiki. It's doing wonderful. I don't feel invited to re-update this list, seems a lot of work. Better: interwiki the proposed, new separate list to the nl:wikipedia, ofcourse). So: Only English lyrics here. It will work. Plus: not 'English A' in the sectionnames needed. I keep thinking Is there a Schottish A then?. Plus: Links to nl:PaceX, in the text!, are not inviting me to touch the article. To be clear: the geoplaces can be everywhere, not restriction to a geo-region.
    • Dutch list (ie Dutch lyrics, worldwide places) copies into Dutch wiki. Grown 25% (160->210) in four days. Elaborate to maintain the Dutch list here. A good reason to split (then I can re-copy the bigger list easily). -DePiep 10:57, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
• A geoname should appear in one, and only one, place (grouped). Don't make me search on two places for one geoplace. That is what the list is for.
  • So, once a geoname is accepted and defined here, then bold the unified name, the name only, and sort by bold names. reduce spelling diferences (New York without any City or State adds. No lyric-interpretation to dab. If City is in the title - clear to me. If not - we should not interpret to do sorting. Because: if we split&subgroup NY City's and NY State's when it's in the title, we'll end up with lots of undecided NY's. A third group, when there are two places? No. (Problem left: L.A. in the title. Either bold it after the title & sort; or give a reference ('See #Los Angeles' section jump; a big place can have its own sectiontitle).
• And the proposed change introduces another subaspect: streets/addresses versus (what?).
  • I'd say No sub-division on streets (is not an address, btw) versus eh non-addresses. Once we have a name (bolded), sort it in one sequence (i.e. 0-9 ABC). The proposed sub-group addresses introduces another grey area: 'Cripple Creek' can be a street. So: the updater or searcher is split over two locations. Missing the essence of a list. Besides: i read above that it is to 'solve' a porblem with a 0-9 clutter. There is no problem . Let's accept there is a 0-9 A-Z range. No problem.
• TOC: Very cumbersom, now.
  • If a template (say: 0-9 A-Z) is not enoug, we can typ & expand it with straight wiki-code in the page. To start with: leave out the colors. Then: resrict to maximum depth of two levels. In the line are: 0-9 A-z, and between: someting like N | Na-Ne | New York | Nf-Nz | M. No other dimensions/subdivisions. (It is already a bit like this. Why complicatie with extra dimensions as language, or addresses? I really don't see a gain. Not for the rebuild, not for an adder, not for a user).
• My main line is:

1. Bold the unified geoname
2. Use one dimension of sorting (ie 0-9 A-Z)
3. Sort by Boldname - Title - Artist

To the effect: pleasant to read, search & update the list.

So thats my remark to going live. -DePiep 13:23, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

I've only just seen all of the above, and most of it doesn't make sense I'm afraid. I'll try and answer your points as I understand them.

• Different lists for different languages
  • This would make sense, but I feel that this is outside the scope of this reorganisation; this is about enabling links to the geographical places. As the English is completely redone and the others aren't I'm going to implement the English onto the live version now, then come back here and finish the other language and implement it when it is done. If you want to split the different languages, then propose it at the main talk page.
• Compicated TOC
  • I really don't understand this objection, this is a very simple TOC and infinetly better than the seven screenfulls we had previously.
• 0-9 and A-Z list only
  • We had this previously and it was much harder to navigate and edit
• one geoname in one place
  • I don't really understand this either. The list is about the songs, all English songs about one place are in one group. If a song mentions two or more places, it appears in all teh groups. This means you can find it in whichever you look in, you don't have to search more than one.
• streets/addresses vs what
  • they are opposed to settlements and geographic regions
• all the other comments are related to the languages. I agree that separate lists would be easier but this is outside the scope of this page. It is a separate proposal entirely.

That said I'm going ahead with the English, because there is a majority who prefer the new sorting. Thryduulf 13:58, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

• You're right saying "most of it doesn't make sense". I think I was careless in examining the core of the changes & talks. Sorry for asking your time this way. Senses left:

- It's not about languages indeed, but the languages are the 1st grouping level. Since this redo takes a lot of time (I understand), to me it looked efficient to think & plan for a split. Eg this would have been a good moment to use top-level sections (1 or 2 deep) for the languages: =English lyrics=; and below only the alphabet (no need for 'English A').

- Can I do a contribution in the Dutch-languages titles? Maybe you can give me a message to do a check & resolve details on these geonames. For now I won't touch the list, ofcourse. PS The new article in nl.wikipedia has forty titles extra in four days. I suggest to take a recent copy of that list to start here.

Enjoy the results, -DePiep 15:29, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Combining the Dutch lists into one and splitting it off seems like a good idea. I'm in the middle of updating the reorganised English list with all the songs that have been added since I started this project in February (there have been a lot!). After that I'll implement the English on the live version. Then would seem like a good time to prepare the Dutch and other languages. You taking care of the Dutch would be most useful as I only speak about 5 words of Dutch! I can sort out the Welsh songs as I do know the basics of that language, and the others won't take much work. You can start on this page as soon as I remove the inuse template - note that there may have been additional songs added to the live version since I took this copy (I've noted above what version I took the snapshot from). Thryduulf 16:08, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Going live

As the comments on this version are favourable, I will replace the main version of the article with version in 1 week unless there are objections. If you want to support or object to this please do so below. If you have other comments, please make them in the relevant section above. Thryduulf 20:40, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

• I oppose. I prefer simplified list (only English lyrics here, bold & sort by unnified names, only sort by 0-9 A-Z) See #Objections and Suggestions above. -DePiep 13:23, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

• Opinion reversed. Go ahead. -DePiep 15:31, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] English songs are live

The live list now has all the English songs in the new format, so I've removed them from this page. The songs in the other languages still need to be done, feel free to help with this - copy the format of the first section of Dutch songs. Some notes are below:

• Don't forget that inline interlanguage links need a lead colon (e.g. {[[:nl:Amerika]]}) otherwise they will end up in the "in other languages" box. Please also use the { and } outside the link to highlight it as foreign.
• If you use a pipe in a foreign link, please put the nl: (or whatever) at the start of the display text (e.g. {[[:nl:Noord Amerika|nl:Amerika (Noord Amerika)]]})
• If you are linking to a disambiguation page on the English Wikipedia use the format: [[America (disambiguation)|America (Generic or unknown)]]
• If you are linking to a disambiguation page on a different wikipedia, use the format:

{[[:nl:Amerika|nl:Amerika (Generish of onbekend)]]}.

• • The bracketed text should be a translation of "(Generic or unknown)" to the language in question. Thryduulf 18:38, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
    • OK, this is what I'm doing on the Dutch songs. I understand that the curly brackets {} used like {nl:Amerika} are layout only, and have no wiki-meaning. (It works anyhow).
    • Should I 'interpret' a name to an existing link, or keep the name more literally in a red, to-be-made-article, link? (See Amelisweerd/Kromme Rijn-comment below).

[edit] Reconstruction section Dutch lyrics

• I have started. First step: complete the list by adding from nl:Lijst van Nederlandstalige liedjes met een geografische naam in de titel. -DePiep 12:39, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
• Deleted: "Aan de voet van de ouwe Wester" by Willy Alberti; by Frans van Schaik; by Zijlstra (Westertoren = Churchtower, =landmark)
• Deleted: "Aan de voet van die mooie Wester" by Johnny Jordaan (Churchtower =landmark)
• Deleted: "As ik boven op de Dom kom" by Rijk de Gooyer (Churchtower =landmark)
• Deleted: "Blue bayou" door John Spencer (singer) (Fictuous)
• Deleted: "Avalon" by Lenny Kuhr fictuous
• Deleted: "Bar Tropical" by Johan Verminnen fictuous
• Deleted: "De Bijenkorf" by Arno van der Heijden landmark (shop)
• 'Almaria' = Almería (spain); changed Presumption
• 'Amelisweerd' near river 'Kromme Rijn' (it is an estate next to this river; no article in nl: either. Yet.)
• Antwarpe = Antwerps.
• Deleted: ** "Alle apies in de Artis" by Rika Jansen (Amsterdam zoo = landmark)
• Deleted: ** "Atlantis-verdronken in jou" by Elly en Rikkert (fictuous)
• Deleted: "Breng terug (Haverkamp's greepe)" by Normaal; persons name; not a place.
• to K: "Een zwoele nacht in Krimpen aan den IJssel" by Wim Sonneveld
• New sections: (split) Dutch J-K, L, U-V, W-Z(also in toc)
• Done: A-Z. Updated from nl up&until:-DePiep 10:39, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Implemented' This talk-section is copied along to Talk overthere. This place: end of subject.-DePiep 10:48, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

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