Talk:Tokio Hotel
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[edit] Forums
May I remind everyone that the discussion page is not a forum for the topic, but a discussion about what should or shouldn't be added/deleted from the article? Read the rules people.Gopherbassist 01:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] controversies
has the twin's apparent underweightness really caused controversy in germany?
yes, it has. i come from germany - it's really been discussed in some magazines and newspapers and the internet, of course... :-)
[edit] notoriety
please do not remove the information in this section unless you have reliable evidence that their schoolmates do not wear such t-shirts, or you have reliable evidence that they are straight. thankyou!
- I'm not going to fight for a shining picture of TH.
- Note that WP:V#Dubious sources states directly:
- Sources should be appropriate to the claims made: outlandish claims beg strong sources.
- Accusing someone of being a gay is just outlandish so this information needs a strong support. You can also read in WP:RS#Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence that some information must be treated skeptically, in particular
- Surprising or important recent events which have not been reported by reputable news media.
- Moreover, WP:V#Dubious sources says
- If the statement is relatively unimportant, then just remove it
- Das Bild is a tabloid, it seemed to me to be of minor importance and it looked as a kind of very fresh news, and wikipedia is not a newspaper, but an encyclopedia - that's why I removed the information.
- The information about the situation in TH's school is currently well sourced (I'll leave the most reliable source in the article). The information about accusation connected with the sexual orientation is currently well atributed, but this still needs a proper link to an edition (date, page or link to an on-line edition) of Das Bild so I'll put the {{fact}} tag there. I guess you can find easily such a pointer and this will make a good excuse to remove the tag and leave the content in the article. Alx-pl D 23:18, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
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- WTF is "Das Bild"? if you mean the Bild-Zeitung it's "Die Bild".--62.214.235.165 00:15, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
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ok thanks for explaining. i will find again the more deteiled bild reference.
I think this section is not NPOV! See w:de:Tokio Hotel#Kritik. I can't belive how far people go, when it's about to set people in a bad light (sry thats truely very german i think). Why do you waste your time in writing such a shit in a tokiohotel article. When people wouldn't make such a truble about this band, then they wouldn't have that success. I don't like them too. But thats no reason to do such an hate!
- can you please translate that "kritik" section? its interesting but mein deutsch ist nicht so gut. also, dont delete stuff from the talk page! its bad form. also you removed them from the category of gay musicians without supplying an evidence they are not gay. can you prove they are straight? you need a strong source because, as above, "outlandish claims beg strong sources" and to suggest they are straight is very outlandish.
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- Note that the category Category:Gay, lesbian or bisexual people mentions in its definitional clause that
- This category is a partial listing of notable gay, lesbian and bisexual people who have publicly declared their sexual orientation, or whose sexual orientation is known and not debated by historians or popular culture.
- There is no evidence that anybody in TH declared their sexual orientation nor that their sexual orientation is known and not debated (if the only support for homosexuality is a note in a tabloid then it is in fact dubious, especially taking into account their young age). This means that the category is not appropriate here. Note also that in our civilisation heterosexuality is the default and the other options should be proven before they are attached to any person so there is no need to prove that somebody is heterosexual and it is not outlandish at all to state that somebody is heterosexual (unless the person declared otherwise or there is a strong evidence for another orientation). Alx-pl D 19:13, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
- Note that the category Category:Gay, lesbian or bisexual people mentions in its definitional clause that
81.93.68.142 21:36, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Hi I'm Nada and I just got to say something cuz I don't get what you're saying! So what if they are gay?! You got to accept the fact that there are people who are different from you and that you are different from them. We can't all be the same and we can't all love the same things. I don't even know why being gay is in any ways wrong, its just like your saying that being white or black is wrong or being vegetarian or not is wrong anyway they are so young that they don't even know if they are straight. That's the problem of today's world as soon as baby gets born they hope that it will get marred and ave a happy family and so on, its all inflicted to them, who said gotta be straight? The grandmothers and grandfathers who think that goin out whit naked belly is wrong and antichrist? I can't say that your opinion is wrong but you better think twice before you convict somebody for something. So I hope I changed your opinion even a little bit and if I didn't it will eventually come from your ass up to your head! And by the way, they are not so bad at all! SCHREI!
- Still it's a delicate matter of the private kind. No problem if one of them declares to be a gay. This should be accepted and he should not be persecuted in the modern societies (althogh there may be people who will think that it's bad). However, there is a problem before they declare that or before it is commonly known that this is the case, as there are people who will have strong opinion that it's bad. alx-pl D 10:29, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I would like to kindly ask people to just not mention their sexuality, be it straight or gay, in the article. This is because there is no evidence for either case to be true. So lets just leave it at that. Is that cool with everyone? Cheers, Kate.
Tokio Hotel are not gay, here's proof: http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3034/dscn25387mf.jpg I hope people would stop posting unvarified gossip. There are better things you can do with your time. If you don't like Tokio Hotel, that's cool. I don't like many bands, too, but do you see me going around Wikipedia and posting unvarified gossip on their pages? No. So why do you find it so important to come and spoil other people's Wikipedia experience? Just think about it.
- nice "proof". LOL! anyway, please stop removing the section about their schoolmates hating them - its VERIFIED and SOURCED - click on the link next to it to see the news article. removing text like that is considered VANDALISM and you could be blocked. and the text mentions NOTHING about them being homosexual, even if they are. so why complain? cheers!
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- I edited your entry. It is still there, but it conveys all the information in a more discreet manner. Anyone who's interested to find out the details can go to the source. I hope that's cool. - Heinekengirl 15:01, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Logo stolen? TH-Logo has resemblance to the Psychick Cross
The band's "logo", which can be seen on the album "Schrei" (a circle in which the initials of the band's name are resembling a cross) has very striking similarities to a symbol which has been used by Psychic TV and their TOPY cult since their beginnings in the early eighties: the so called Psychick Cross. Although I doubt that Psychic TV is going to enjoin (the owners) of Tokio Hotel to refrain from using that logo, I think it's a tasteless rip-off nevertheless. But I also think that hardly any Tokio Hotel fan will be able to identify this symbol correctly, also as there is some stubborn resistence in their minds when it comes to such matters as the truth about their idols.
Here are some examples of the original Psychick Cross: 1., 2., 3.
And some more examples are here.
The TOPY Faq with some info about the cross: look at question/answer 5
--87.122.6.74 20:38, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
- davocc
the logo is a combination of T and H so there is no need of thinking that is a copy its a logic combine
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- Well, unless there are any objections by next week, I'm going to delete this section. There is no reason for this to be here. Maybe put something about the similarities in thae actual article, but not with the voice you used here.67.150.70.195 01:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- i cant believe i ran across a PTV comment on this page. anyway, their symbol closely resembles the symbol in question, the Cross of Lorraine. futhermore i've noticed that some of their merchandise looks very much like some of Atari Teenage Riots stuff. either way all of TH promo is covered by Universal, interesting none-the-less. AlexOvShaolin 00:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] New band-member
Who the hell is Herczeg Adam Zsolt?? Seriously, I'd be really interested in where you got that name from. I'd rather think that the girl you refer to is Bill Kaulitz, the twin-brother of Tom Kaulitz!
[edit] Links
Shouldn't the links to the fan-sites be cropped? This isn't DMOZ or so, while you would think that with the large amount of links. I suggest to link only to the official sites. 81.71.36.212 01:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
- davocc:
i have sorted all entrys should look better
since the official site is not en english, and the one in english is not complete, we should at least keep the english pages, there are wikipedia entries of tokio hotel in other languages so the fanpages in other laguages should be removed. TheXagSpell 02:34, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pictures
There are some good pictures of the Kaulitzes in the German Wikipedia. I'd add them to this article but I'm not good enough with the coding stuff to transplant them. Maybe someone else can do it?
[edit] Boy band?
Why is listed in the boyband category? They're a rock band, not a pop band. Gopherbassist 02:10, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I wouldn't call it rock... It was often at the radio here, so I think it's right to call there music 'Pop'
[edit] Tokio Hotel copying the style of HIM???
I've never heard of this here in Germany. And I don't think that the sound of the two bands are similar.
I am american and i have listened to TOKIO HOTEL and HIM for a long time! NO TOKIO HOTEL sound and style is totaly different from HIM! I dont know who thought this up, but they are wrong. Look at Bill's style nothing like that of HIM! The sound Georg, Gustav and Tom mak also have none of that of HIM! i am sorry tat they thik TOKIO HOTEL sounds liek HIM!
[edit] about the content of the "criticism" part of the site
Wikipedia asks that "encyclopedic content must be verifiable" (/quote) so i suggests that someone take out that weird sentence about the band copying HIM and Miyavi's looks if that's ok with you. so far, the band has NEVER been even once compared with anything j-rock related in the german press and none of the members has ever made any indication that they even know what j-rock even is so it's highly unlikely that they're (Bill?) is copying one specific person who's, truth be told, only known to a very specific group of fans. j-rock is not THAT popular in germany yet.
as for HIM- all the kids who shop in skate/punk/rockabilly stores look basically the same. i highly doubt it has anything to do with a band that had its one big hit 6 years ago. HIM might be pretty popular in the states now but ever since "Join me", they're not all that big in germany anymore (Joinvalo666: lil comment, not related to Tokio Hotel: HIM are still popular in Germany (more popular than in the USA) .
it's more likely that Bill's looks, especially the hairstyle, originates from the german singer Nena who was really popular in the 80's and only recently had her comeback. Bill keeps fangirling (whoops- fanboying) over Nena in about every interview he does and, according to himself, has been listening to her music ever since he's been 7 so it's very likely that if he's copying anyone, it's her and not someone he probably doesn't even know exists.
just a thought.
-Lis(12/07/2006) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.121.17.188 (talk) 23:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC).
[edit] Rewrite
I've just done some pretty drastic editing of the page to try to make it more readable. I've also removed some non-NPOV material and added ref tags to several unsourced facts... anyone with good sources, please jump in and add them.
"music charts at #15 on August 20th and reaching #1 on August 26th". Of which year?
(note: added the year (2005) to the charts ranking and fixed the english translation of "Übers Ende der Welt"- "Beyond the End of the World" is the correct translation since "Über" equals "Beyond" in that context and not "About". :)
-lis)
[edit] Corrected defective translation
The song title "Übers Ende der Welt" was translated as "Over the End of the World". I have changed it into what is correct: "Beyond the Edge of the World". However, the title is ambiguous and could also be translated: "About the End of the World". Maybe one should add that, but I have considered it to be easily causing misunderstandings.
(note added by lis: the official english language version of "Übers Ende der Welt" is called "Ready, set, go!" - maybe someone should edit the english tranlations a la "beyond the end/ege of the world" etc. out and replace them with the official version instead? i think that would make more sense, wouldn't it?
about the song title being ambiguous... it's actually not really because if you put "übers ende the welt" in context with the song, the lyrics are "wir schaffen es zusammen übers ende dieser welt" - "together we'll make it beyond the end of this world". i think it's pretty clear that the title refers to the text and should hence be translated "beyond" and not "about". :)
what do you think?)
[edit] fake chart positions and album sales
The information here is mostly false. It looks like some diehard fans driven by emotion have manipulated the article. Tokio hotel havent sold half as many albums as the article says. They debut high and drop like a rock out of the chart with no staying power. This is supposed to be an encylopedia with facts, not a fan site to feel good about Tokio hotel. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jetgif (talk • contribs) 09:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC).
